Jetstar and Infant Seatbelts
Thread Starter
I've rechecked the CAOs (CAO 20.16.3.13.2) and can't find any reference to a need for them to be restrained other than in the arms of an adult passenger.
I know QF carries them but only provides them on request, not voluntarily, which seems to me to indicate they're not actually required.(?)
Does anyone know if they're on the aircraft and available? The only Jetstar number that's available links through to reservations and they don't know.
I know QF carries them but only provides them on request, not voluntarily, which seems to me to indicate they're not actually required.(?)
Does anyone know if they're on the aircraft and available? The only Jetstar number that's available links through to reservations and they don't know.
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Normally an infant does not have a seat (and therefore by definition, does not require a seat belt), however a child does have a seat and naturally gets a seatbelt to go with it.
Perhaps DirectAnywhere could clarify whether they are talking about an infant or a child. Or maybe they are talking about the infant capsule (the car type) restraint.
tipsy
Perhaps DirectAnywhere could clarify whether they are talking about an infant or a child. Or maybe they are talking about the infant capsule (the car type) restraint.
tipsy
I'll get me coat......
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Actually CAO 20.16.3 Part 4 plainly states that :
It doesn't differentiate between adults, children or infants except when the latter are carried in an infant seat or when children share a seat.
Subsections 14 and 16 refer to carriage of sick or injured persons and carriage of parachutists.
It simply says ALL persons must wear a seat belt or safety harness, regardless of whether they are in the lap of another passenger or on their own seat. The point to make I suppose is that if you are using the infant restraint belt that loops through the normal seat belt then the infant is technically using a safey harness as is different from a seat belt which indicates use of a seat.
Isn't the law fun!
Cheers,
Hollywood
Except as provided in subsections 14 and 16 safety harnesses, or seat belts where safety harnesses are not fitted, shall be worn by all persons at the times listed in paragraph 3.1.
Subsections 14 and 16 refer to carriage of sick or injured persons and carriage of parachutists.
It simply says ALL persons must wear a seat belt or safety harness, regardless of whether they are in the lap of another passenger or on their own seat. The point to make I suppose is that if you are using the infant restraint belt that loops through the normal seat belt then the infant is technically using a safey harness as is different from a seat belt which indicates use of a seat.
Isn't the law fun!
Cheers,
Hollywood
Thread Starter
Thanks Hollywood. I did read that but then wondered why QF don't mandate their use?
TIPSY, and anyone else, I'm talking about my 5 month old infant son who's flying with his mother on Jetstar in a few weeks. Speaking to Jetstar reservations again they think that infant seatbelts are NOT carried by Jetstar aircraft (they don't really know), which I can't say I'm exactly overjoyed about if it's true.
I'm trying to find out from the horse's mouth so if there are any Jetstar pilots out there please help!!
(might try the cabin crew forum as well)
TIPSY, and anyone else, I'm talking about my 5 month old infant son who's flying with his mother on Jetstar in a few weeks. Speaking to Jetstar reservations again they think that infant seatbelts are NOT carried by Jetstar aircraft (they don't really know), which I can't say I'm exactly overjoyed about if it's true.
I'm trying to find out from the horse's mouth so if there are any Jetstar pilots out there please help!!
(might try the cabin crew forum as well)
Moderator
This subject has been gone over pretty thoroughly in the certification arena during the past 20 years or so.
Main concerns are
(a) kiddie on the lap is wishful thinking. Under any reasonable crash loading, the adult is not going to be able to hold onto the toddler who then becomes a missile.
Would you nurse your infant in your lap in a car ? Current crash standards address similar crash accelerations in aircraft to what has been the auto standard for many years.
(b) piggyback belt is not much good as, for the normal lap belt only restraint, the adult moves forward, jack-knifes, and crushes the child. The child's body also represents a significant hazard to the adult during the crash sequence.
Suggest it is a very illustrative exercise to watch a high speed video of a sled test sequence .... I haven't checked specifically but I would expect that the FAA CAMI site has some samples available for download. (As an aside, their first effort with bags made for interesting viewing as they clean forgot about the caustic by-products of the sodium azide explosive charge ... hazardous fluff throughout the sled chamber ... on that general subject, most people are not aware that this material, commonly used in auto bags, potentially is very toxic in its own right .. leading to cell anoxia and all sorts of problems, including fatal poisoning)
(c) the only sensible and practical infant restraint is to use an auto car seat or capsule restrained appropriately ... but no-one wants to buy the extra seat ...
Until the regulators take the bull by the horns, this whole issue remains in a dreadful state of affairs ..
Main concerns are
(a) kiddie on the lap is wishful thinking. Under any reasonable crash loading, the adult is not going to be able to hold onto the toddler who then becomes a missile.
Would you nurse your infant in your lap in a car ? Current crash standards address similar crash accelerations in aircraft to what has been the auto standard for many years.
(b) piggyback belt is not much good as, for the normal lap belt only restraint, the adult moves forward, jack-knifes, and crushes the child. The child's body also represents a significant hazard to the adult during the crash sequence.
Suggest it is a very illustrative exercise to watch a high speed video of a sled test sequence .... I haven't checked specifically but I would expect that the FAA CAMI site has some samples available for download. (As an aside, their first effort with bags made for interesting viewing as they clean forgot about the caustic by-products of the sodium azide explosive charge ... hazardous fluff throughout the sled chamber ... on that general subject, most people are not aware that this material, commonly used in auto bags, potentially is very toxic in its own right .. leading to cell anoxia and all sorts of problems, including fatal poisoning)
(c) the only sensible and practical infant restraint is to use an auto car seat or capsule restrained appropriately ... but no-one wants to buy the extra seat ...
Until the regulators take the bull by the horns, this whole issue remains in a dreadful state of affairs ..
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I play a game with my 3 year old, she knows what to do when I say "Brace" , ie lean into the straps as far forward as possible, head on knees and cover her head with her hands, she also counts the seats to the nearest exit and knows the "go low" fireman sam drill. - wishful thinking on my part , tho she knows to go away from heat and fire.
Laps are pretty useless unless you adopt an agressive brace, I use a cushion between my 1 year old for TO and Landing.
I also tighten as much as a 3 year old will allow for TO and Landing which results in the usual tantrums, c'est la vie.
Question ? is putting cushions behind the little screamers better than putting them in front under the belts ? I ask because it seems logical to reduce the risk of submarining?
cheers
7g
Laps are pretty useless unless you adopt an agressive brace, I use a cushion between my 1 year old for TO and Landing.
I also tighten as much as a 3 year old will allow for TO and Landing which results in the usual tantrums, c'est la vie.
Question ? is putting cushions behind the little screamers better than putting them in front under the belts ? I ask because it seems logical to reduce the risk of submarining?
cheers
7g
