It beggars belief
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It beggars belief
What with our dismal record of weather related accidents and in particular small GA operators, I was dismayed to see a regular Great Barrier flight pass over the middle of the city at about 300’ agl (disappearing in and out of cloud) There were SPAR’s and SPECI’s out at AA at the time and the weather over the city was c@#p with low cloud and drizzle, out over the harbor was no better.
You have IFR capability why not use it? Or was it a case of the Wx at GB was below min’s? So we can sneak through VFR?
You have IFR capability why not use it? Or was it a case of the Wx at GB was below min’s? So we can sneak through VFR?
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One day their luck may run out...
Dear Spin,
You may be right about the GB WX minima etc, but its possible said GBA flight was single pilot and thus unable to file IFR. No excuse anyway! (You didn't mention the type but few had serviceable A/P's when I knew them). 2 crew IFR means less pax / revenue / more wages. (Oh no!)
AKL to GBI is mostly over water, these days on GPS, has multiple airports / runways and IFR approaches at both ends, etc. Not too difficult so eventually one (especially when relatively inexperienced) gets the idea you can always get through by just going lower or sporadic IMC / VFR on GPS...
Like you say not nice to see (and hardly fosters public confidence) but unless there is real surveillance (i.e. clandestine CAA pax, etc), instead of paper audits it won't stop... (Would you go 100 kph if you knew you'd never see a cop or speed camera?)
Lucky their network has easy strips (for the types) and little terrain to worry about.
You may be right about the GB WX minima etc, but its possible said GBA flight was single pilot and thus unable to file IFR. No excuse anyway! (You didn't mention the type but few had serviceable A/P's when I knew them). 2 crew IFR means less pax / revenue / more wages. (Oh no!)
AKL to GBI is mostly over water, these days on GPS, has multiple airports / runways and IFR approaches at both ends, etc. Not too difficult so eventually one (especially when relatively inexperienced) gets the idea you can always get through by just going lower or sporadic IMC / VFR on GPS...
Like you say not nice to see (and hardly fosters public confidence) but unless there is real surveillance (i.e. clandestine CAA pax, etc), instead of paper audits it won't stop... (Would you go 100 kph if you knew you'd never see a cop or speed camera?)
Lucky their network has easy strips (for the types) and little terrain to worry about.
Last edited by Tutaewera; 23rd May 2005 at 01:46.
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Clouds are a nuisance thats for sure, and the PIC has final say so therefore 300 ft AGL may have been the right call. Maybe he had instrument problems that necessitated this action........perhaps the VSI had some dicrepancy we will never know.
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Or perhaps he was taking a gamble with his own life and those on board...not to mention innocent people on the ground.
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 3rd Jun 2005 at 14:06.
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It is SOP for them to go on shady VFR flights, IFR costs to much in fees and flight time, i did some flying with them and got told i had to go VFR on a really crappy nor easter day,, that was the last trip to GBA i ever did for them thankfully i didnt need the hours anymore so I could tell them where to put there unsafe operation..
It is only a matter of time. this is the company where they have had guys take off out of matarangi in fog,, collecting the fence and severly damaging a/c..
It is only a matter of time. this is the company where they have had guys take off out of matarangi in fog,, collecting the fence and severly damaging a/c..
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Yer all a buncha blouses.
Tin remembers well the days when Hollicks Holiday Hovels were under construction on the Barrier.
Nothing unusual really except Ted carted all the building material for them over from Ardmore in a Piper Cub.
Picture this a NORAD Cub wiggles its ailerons on taxi way waiting for T/O. Tower looks and LOOKS! bugger me! its Ted with a house door strapped under each set of struts ten bags of cement in the back seat and a bloody big goofy brown dog sitting on top of all that.
Tower fires a RED at the Cub The Cub doors open and out steps a 300lb madman in gumboots shoots the tower the finger gets back in and buggers off anyway.
Somehow it was built
Anyone know if Ted is still with us?
Tin remembers well the days when Hollicks Holiday Hovels were under construction on the Barrier.
Nothing unusual really except Ted carted all the building material for them over from Ardmore in a Piper Cub.
Picture this a NORAD Cub wiggles its ailerons on taxi way waiting for T/O. Tower looks and LOOKS! bugger me! its Ted with a house door strapped under each set of struts ten bags of cement in the back seat and a bloody big goofy brown dog sitting on top of all that.
Tower fires a RED at the Cub The Cub doors open and out steps a 300lb madman in gumboots shoots the tower the finger gets back in and buggers off anyway.
Somehow it was built
Anyone know if Ted is still with us?
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If aviation in general was serious about safety at GA level then regular ATOs would all be conducted IFR. Everywhere would have a VOR/DME approach not a dodgy NDBs and all the aircraft would be spick and span with the latest in gadgets. Instead these poor guys and girls are given 30 year old relics with minimim equipment to try and operate safely with. And to add insult to injury they are paid less than the lowest qualified McDonalds worker and know damn well not to complain as there is 10 other struggling pilots who want their job.
I believe GA everywhere has to take a real good look at itself!
I believe GA everywhere has to take a real good look at itself!
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Dear Flying kiwi,
Must agree although a small correction to your post. The foggy takeoff you mention was at Whitianga in BN2 ZK-CRA (just off a rebuild!)- took off on a misaligned DI and hit the fence by the Met station. The incident report is on the TAIC website if you want to look.
But yup the general tone of the posts is true IMHO. Old A/C, low pay, little experience, perhaps inadequate training and employment pressures plus a dose of ego...
Shame its still happenning...
Must agree although a small correction to your post. The foggy takeoff you mention was at Whitianga in BN2 ZK-CRA (just off a rebuild!)- took off on a misaligned DI and hit the fence by the Met station. The incident report is on the TAIC website if you want to look.
But yup the general tone of the posts is true IMHO. Old A/C, low pay, little experience, perhaps inadequate training and employment pressures plus a dose of ego...
Shame its still happenning...
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I never mentioned which operator it was (there is two that operate the route), but before they start snickering at each other I would point out that the other lot went past about ten minutes beforehand, I just couldn’t see them in the conditions.
My point is that the flight must have departed Auckland knowing that the flight would be illegal in the conditions. The SPECI was for cloud at about 600’, you have to fly over a built up area (read city) so how can you depart VFR and maintain 1000’ agl? That aside if they took of legal VFR then presumably they continued on into conditions far from suitable rather than turning back. To put it into context they flew past Mt Wellington which is about 500’ amsl, the top of this “mountain” was well covered in cloud.
You, your passengers and others on the ground deserve better.
And no I am not holier than thou. I have flown in weather I shouldn’t have, but I have on many occasions said no. It can be a tough call.
Of the other story regarding Ted. The story I heard was that the Cub was parked at Ardmore with the doors and timber attached when it was “discovered” by a FED, Ted was tracked down at the Globe tavern in Papakura by the FED and told that under no circumstances was the Aircraft to fly loaded like that, to which Ted agreed. The FED didn’t believe him so went out to Ardmore before dawn to apprehend him only to find aircraft and offender gone!....and then there was the other story of the crayfish escaping from the sack in the front seat of the Tiger.
My point is that the flight must have departed Auckland knowing that the flight would be illegal in the conditions. The SPECI was for cloud at about 600’, you have to fly over a built up area (read city) so how can you depart VFR and maintain 1000’ agl? That aside if they took of legal VFR then presumably they continued on into conditions far from suitable rather than turning back. To put it into context they flew past Mt Wellington which is about 500’ amsl, the top of this “mountain” was well covered in cloud.
You, your passengers and others on the ground deserve better.
And no I am not holier than thou. I have flown in weather I shouldn’t have, but I have on many occasions said no. It can be a tough call.
Of the other story regarding Ted. The story I heard was that the Cub was parked at Ardmore with the doors and timber attached when it was “discovered” by a FED, Ted was tracked down at the Globe tavern in Papakura by the FED and told that under no circumstances was the Aircraft to fly loaded like that, to which Ted agreed. The FED didn’t believe him so went out to Ardmore before dawn to apprehend him only to find aircraft and offender gone!....and then there was the other story of the crayfish escaping from the sack in the front seat of the Tiger.
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Right.....anymore Ted Hollick yarns?
Dont think even Ted would have frequented the Globe.
I was at the old Skydivers one night that Ted had been refused entry.
Next minute...KER.....FARKING.....RASH !!!
Ted had kicked down a huge sliding door and calmy walked in and ordered a DB.
Several good yarns from the days he was a flying chimney sweep with his Tiger Moth, and later sewerage pump operator
Then theres the Moth that ended up in the surf on GBI......
Oh...the meatbomber pilot that got a knuckle sandwich and his keys removed
Dont think even Ted would have frequented the Globe.
I was at the old Skydivers one night that Ted had been refused entry.
Next minute...KER.....FARKING.....RASH !!!
Ted had kicked down a huge sliding door and calmy walked in and ordered a DB.
Several good yarns from the days he was a flying chimney sweep with his Tiger Moth, and later sewerage pump operator
Then theres the Moth that ended up in the surf on GBI......
Oh...the meatbomber pilot that got a knuckle sandwich and his keys removed
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Spin
Perhaps the other aircraft you could not see was IFR. If it is a 05 day the GA lot get turned off the SID asap and vectored north towards Otata which would put them in the vacinity of Mt Wellington.
Perhaps the other aircraft you could not see was IFR. If it is a 05 day the GA lot get turned off the SID asap and vectored north towards Otata which would put them in the vacinity of Mt Wellington.
