C Cat stuff
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C Cat stuff
Firstly thanx for viewing the post. Well has anyone got any curly questions that they were sprung with on recent flight tests, particularly with reference to instructor ratings? Im a wet behind the ears C Cat in training and was hoping that some of u more experienced guys could guide or direct me to some study tips and flying techniques.
Any relevant info is much appreciated (Being PPrune and all im sure i will be lectured about the over abundance of instructors and shortage of jobs etc but what the hey.)
Anyways thanx again
Any relevant info is much appreciated (Being PPrune and all im sure i will be lectured about the over abundance of instructors and shortage of jobs etc but what the hey.)
Anyways thanx again
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Lift, Drag and Propellers.
If you can nail these 3 big topics really well, the others are really easy.
Just do 4 times as much prep as you think you should do, and you'll be sweet for the test.
If you can nail these 3 big topics really well, the others are really easy.
Just do 4 times as much prep as you think you should do, and you'll be sweet for the test.
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Do you know who you are doing it with?
Kermode is worth knowing your way around.
Make sure you study up on your CPL theory examination critiques (order them from ALS if req'd). Gernerally you will go through Met and P of F in the most detail.
P of F will start off going through those very exam critiques and as soon as you stumble explaining prehaps stability, youll be asked to get the kermode.
From then on there is really no structure just discussion. The examiner will steer towards topics they want diagrams for etc and youll be asked to draw up prehaps the power curve as a matter of conversation rather than being put on the spot.
Dont let yourself dig yourself a hole either - The examiner is going to keep asking questions untill you eventaully dont know the answer and then he'll help work through it. Just give it an honest attempt.
Dont rule out the chances of getting a flight such as instrument flying, compass turns etc. (I know of someone who got both - after failing the first)
Youve probably been briefed on how the day works: Flight Briefing , Flight , De-Brief then lunch and an afternoon of P of F.
Not much emphasis is placed on intructional techniques or flight manual from memory, especially if youve recently done your CPL.
All the best
Kermode is worth knowing your way around.
Make sure you study up on your CPL theory examination critiques (order them from ALS if req'd). Gernerally you will go through Met and P of F in the most detail.
P of F will start off going through those very exam critiques and as soon as you stumble explaining prehaps stability, youll be asked to get the kermode.
From then on there is really no structure just discussion. The examiner will steer towards topics they want diagrams for etc and youll be asked to draw up prehaps the power curve as a matter of conversation rather than being put on the spot.
Dont let yourself dig yourself a hole either - The examiner is going to keep asking questions untill you eventaully dont know the answer and then he'll help work through it. Just give it an honest attempt.
Dont rule out the chances of getting a flight such as instrument flying, compass turns etc. (I know of someone who got both - after failing the first)
Youve probably been briefed on how the day works: Flight Briefing , Flight , De-Brief then lunch and an afternoon of P of F.
Not much emphasis is placed on intructional techniques or flight manual from memory, especially if youve recently done your CPL.
All the best
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Hey mate, I did my C-Cat last week...so I'll try and shed some light on what I had.
Firstly, who are you doing it with? PCS? If so, you'll probably find this helpful.
On the day, first thing he's going to do, is check your logbook...MAKE SURE IT'S CORRECT!! This will set mood for the rest of the day, so spend some time the night before, making sure it all adds up, cos he'll spend alot of time on it.
While he's doing that, you'll be preparing your brief.
I had heard alot of stories about not being able to refer to your briefs etc...I got Effects of Controls, while you should definately make sure you know your briefs, don't stress too much about memorising every little thing, it's ok to refer to it.
If your brief is more than 40mins long, forget it, he's going to stop you!
Then will come the flying. Make sure before the test that you've cleaned the plane (windscreen, interior etc), take him as standard weight - and make sure it falls within limits!! Don't get caught out, could be an expensive mistake.
I asked him if he wanted me to talk through the pre-flight, he told me just to do it, and he questioned me on a few little things e.g. What is the flow strip for? How are the wings attached? What are these arials for?
He told me the lesson would begin once we were in the air, and to do everying pre-takeoff myself, and to do a max-perf t/o.
Up in the air, the lesson will begin straight away...just do one thing at a time...and take all the time you need! Don't be in a rush, he won't be. Treat him like a student, treat him like a dummy if you have to, ask him if he's feeling ok etc.
After the lesson for me, went demo and patter: Steep Turns,Max Rate Turns,Basic Stall,Advanced Stall,Wing Drop Stall,Stall in the turn,steep gliding turn,PFLWOP,EFATO,Constant radius turn,medium turn low level.
Just do one thing at a time, don't rush yourself...its stuff you've already done in CPL, you just gotta talk through it, and remember that if he asks you to do another exercise...then forget about what you've done before it!
On the way home, I just did a short field landing...which was terrible...the comment "I wouldnt let a student go first solo after that" didnt help :s , but don't give up...
Then you'll normally have a lunch break, come back and get into the groundwork.
Mine went something like this:
Weight/Balance - a/c flying from a-b with this much fuel etc.
Density Altitude questions
Physics questions, what is work,what is power etc.
Drag (Total Drag graph,drag tree etc)
AR Forumla
Gliding questions, (forces in a glide), penetration etc.
He asked me what the serated disc was behind the propeller, know what its for, if your test is with PCS, its one of his favourite questions.
I could probably think of some more stuff, if you think its helpful, of have ur test with PCS, let me know - he goes thru his briefs in order for each c-cat.
Cheers, and good luck.
Pilotnz.
Firstly, who are you doing it with? PCS? If so, you'll probably find this helpful.
On the day, first thing he's going to do, is check your logbook...MAKE SURE IT'S CORRECT!! This will set mood for the rest of the day, so spend some time the night before, making sure it all adds up, cos he'll spend alot of time on it.
While he's doing that, you'll be preparing your brief.
I had heard alot of stories about not being able to refer to your briefs etc...I got Effects of Controls, while you should definately make sure you know your briefs, don't stress too much about memorising every little thing, it's ok to refer to it.
If your brief is more than 40mins long, forget it, he's going to stop you!
Then will come the flying. Make sure before the test that you've cleaned the plane (windscreen, interior etc), take him as standard weight - and make sure it falls within limits!! Don't get caught out, could be an expensive mistake.
I asked him if he wanted me to talk through the pre-flight, he told me just to do it, and he questioned me on a few little things e.g. What is the flow strip for? How are the wings attached? What are these arials for?
He told me the lesson would begin once we were in the air, and to do everying pre-takeoff myself, and to do a max-perf t/o.
Up in the air, the lesson will begin straight away...just do one thing at a time...and take all the time you need! Don't be in a rush, he won't be. Treat him like a student, treat him like a dummy if you have to, ask him if he's feeling ok etc.
After the lesson for me, went demo and patter: Steep Turns,Max Rate Turns,Basic Stall,Advanced Stall,Wing Drop Stall,Stall in the turn,steep gliding turn,PFLWOP,EFATO,Constant radius turn,medium turn low level.
Just do one thing at a time, don't rush yourself...its stuff you've already done in CPL, you just gotta talk through it, and remember that if he asks you to do another exercise...then forget about what you've done before it!
On the way home, I just did a short field landing...which was terrible...the comment "I wouldnt let a student go first solo after that" didnt help :s , but don't give up...
Then you'll normally have a lunch break, come back and get into the groundwork.
Mine went something like this:
Weight/Balance - a/c flying from a-b with this much fuel etc.
Density Altitude questions
Physics questions, what is work,what is power etc.
Drag (Total Drag graph,drag tree etc)
AR Forumla
Gliding questions, (forces in a glide), penetration etc.
He asked me what the serated disc was behind the propeller, know what its for, if your test is with PCS, its one of his favourite questions.
I could probably think of some more stuff, if you think its helpful, of have ur test with PCS, let me know - he goes thru his briefs in order for each c-cat.
Cheers, and good luck.
Pilotnz.
There's been some good advice here, BUT remember one thing, first and foremost take note of what your instructor is teaching you, don't try to tell him/her what you think you should know.
Hopefully you researched where you were going to do your C cat training and you chose a place that you considered would do a good job for you. Sit up and take notice of what you are being taught.
No one likes a student who thinks that they know best.
I guess what I am saying are two things,
One, if you have chosen a good place to do your training you should have nothing to worry about, they will provide all that you need,
Two, take notice of other advice, but don't piss who ever is training you off by suggesting that so and so says that this needs to be studied or it should be done this way.
Hopefully you researched where you were going to do your C cat training and you chose a place that you considered would do a good job for you. Sit up and take notice of what you are being taught.
No one likes a student who thinks that they know best.
I guess what I am saying are two things,
One, if you have chosen a good place to do your training you should have nothing to worry about, they will provide all that you need,
Two, take notice of other advice, but don't piss who ever is training you off by suggesting that so and so says that this needs to be studied or it should be done this way.
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Thanks pilotnz for ur comprehensive briefing about the day. And i take it u passed ok, congrats. I believe the examiner will be G Leach if this makes any difference.
27/09 yes good points will bite my tongue. Have a habit of saying what i think when i should only be thinking it.
U guys & girls have been an great help and i hope the advice keeps flowing.
27/09 yes good points will bite my tongue. Have a habit of saying what i think when i should only be thinking it.
U guys & girls have been an great help and i hope the advice keeps flowing.
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Gday,
Sat mine last year, have had a few freinds do theirs with G Leach, and hes very straightforward and very fair!
he does like to ask a few questions about law, so would suggest going over some of the part 91 and part 61 especially around privelidges and limitations as a C Cat.
Also have a look through AC 61 on the CAA website, the C Cat flight test is generally a very straight forward day and there arnt too many hidden suprises!
Good luck! Pace yourself through the day, take each thing 1 step at a time and remember to take your time! theres no rush and the best instructors take their time!
Good Luck
regards
M
Sat mine last year, have had a few freinds do theirs with G Leach, and hes very straightforward and very fair!
he does like to ask a few questions about law, so would suggest going over some of the part 91 and part 61 especially around privelidges and limitations as a C Cat.
Also have a look through AC 61 on the CAA website, the C Cat flight test is generally a very straight forward day and there arnt too many hidden suprises!
Good luck! Pace yourself through the day, take each thing 1 step at a time and remember to take your time! theres no rush and the best instructors take their time!
Good Luck
regards
M
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Leach is a good guy who enjoys a laugh but he demands a high standard so keep prepping until you can't take it any more.
The C Cat test is a good day, rewarding regardless of the result.
The B Cat needs more work than most people realise.
The A Cat is not to be taken lightly. I know of several people who have failed (some more than once) because they think an A Cat is just a B Cat with a bit more polish. Big mistake. I prepped for my A Cat test for weeks beforehand and to be honest, probably over prepared but it was worth it for the lack of surprises on the day.
Aim high and the rest will come easily.
Good luck.
Bombay
The C Cat test is a good day, rewarding regardless of the result.
The B Cat needs more work than most people realise.
The A Cat is not to be taken lightly. I know of several people who have failed (some more than once) because they think an A Cat is just a B Cat with a bit more polish. Big mistake. I prepped for my A Cat test for weeks beforehand and to be honest, probably over prepared but it was worth it for the lack of surprises on the day.
Aim high and the rest will come easily.
Good luck.
Bombay
It's been a few years since I had to ride around with Mr Leach, but I'll try to jot down what I rememeber.
Firstly - Coffee. White with one.
Although he usually sticks to the basic briefings, he can often surprise you with something big, like Max. Rate turns.
I used the OHP to assist me with the diagrams in the P of F section (I had steep turns) and he didn't seem to mind.
With the flying side of things, I had to patter a climb on the way out to the training area. Once there, we went into the teaching of steep turns (he did it perfectly no critiquing required) then a demo of a max rate followed by me critiquing him, (he didn't advance the power). Somewhere in there I had to patter some stalling, an engine failure and some low flying and finally a couple of circuits. One thing I was always told to rememeber in the test 'If you aren't happy with what you just did then tell him. Don't risk screwing the whole thing up because you were too afraid to speak up.'
Back in the briefing room, he really got stuck into Lift, Stability and Propellers. Only touching lightly on the rest. Don't try to bullsh*t him. He knows Kemode better than most people in this country. If you don't know the answer, tell him.
Then just the basic's of C-cat privileges
and currencey requirements for a PPL - you'll need to have a copy of Pt 61 (or was it AC 61) so that you can show him you know where it is.
Good luck. Hope it all goes well.
S2K4
Firstly - Coffee. White with one.
Although he usually sticks to the basic briefings, he can often surprise you with something big, like Max. Rate turns.
I used the OHP to assist me with the diagrams in the P of F section (I had steep turns) and he didn't seem to mind.
With the flying side of things, I had to patter a climb on the way out to the training area. Once there, we went into the teaching of steep turns (he did it perfectly no critiquing required) then a demo of a max rate followed by me critiquing him, (he didn't advance the power). Somewhere in there I had to patter some stalling, an engine failure and some low flying and finally a couple of circuits. One thing I was always told to rememeber in the test 'If you aren't happy with what you just did then tell him. Don't risk screwing the whole thing up because you were too afraid to speak up.'
Back in the briefing room, he really got stuck into Lift, Stability and Propellers. Only touching lightly on the rest. Don't try to bullsh*t him. He knows Kemode better than most people in this country. If you don't know the answer, tell him.
Then just the basic's of C-cat privileges
and currencey requirements for a PPL - you'll need to have a copy of Pt 61 (or was it AC 61) so that you can show him you know where it is.
Good luck. Hope it all goes well.
S2K4
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There are no short cuts in preparing for the C Cat.
It's not just another rating that enables you to build more hours. You are being given the qualifications necessary TO TEACH SOMEONE TO FLY AN AEROPLANE. This is a very big deal so take the C Cat seriously.
As far as prep goes, I agree with the aforementioned sentiments, but don't skip anything in the lead up.
Read all the ACs that relate to Part 61.
Read CAR 61 and 91. It's boring but you are supposedly a professional pilot (ie. CPL) already.
Know the C Cat priviledges. Know the limitations.
It's not just a test of your ability to recite the Benoulli Theorem. You are actually supposed to know this stuff properly. Remember, this is a test that if passed, with enable you to legally teach it to someone else.
Also, someone else made the point that if you make a mistake, don't be afraid to say so and offer to repeat the exercise. THIS IS VERY GOOD ADVICE. I remember in my C Cat years ago I lost 100 feet in the a steep turn. I said to the Examiner that I could do better. He offered me the opportunity to do it again, and I did, this time much better.
Just don't expect to be able to do this for every single exercise.
I reckon you are far better to over prep for the C Cat test. It will make the day go smoother and will make you a better instructor in the long run. You'd be amazed all the little things I remember from my own C Cat test, yet remember little from my CPL or SPMEIR tests.
Best of luck.
Bombay
It's not just another rating that enables you to build more hours. You are being given the qualifications necessary TO TEACH SOMEONE TO FLY AN AEROPLANE. This is a very big deal so take the C Cat seriously.
As far as prep goes, I agree with the aforementioned sentiments, but don't skip anything in the lead up.
Read all the ACs that relate to Part 61.
Read CAR 61 and 91. It's boring but you are supposedly a professional pilot (ie. CPL) already.
Know the C Cat priviledges. Know the limitations.
It's not just a test of your ability to recite the Benoulli Theorem. You are actually supposed to know this stuff properly. Remember, this is a test that if passed, with enable you to legally teach it to someone else.
Also, someone else made the point that if you make a mistake, don't be afraid to say so and offer to repeat the exercise. THIS IS VERY GOOD ADVICE. I remember in my C Cat years ago I lost 100 feet in the a steep turn. I said to the Examiner that I could do better. He offered me the opportunity to do it again, and I did, this time much better.
Just don't expect to be able to do this for every single exercise.
I reckon you are far better to over prep for the C Cat test. It will make the day go smoother and will make you a better instructor in the long run. You'd be amazed all the little things I remember from my own C Cat test, yet remember little from my CPL or SPMEIR tests.
Best of luck.
Bombay
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This has been a most interesting thread!
Lotsa good advice for the budding C Cats.!!
Remember one thing when u get a C cat, PERSONALITY and ATTITUDE play a huge part in instructing.
MOST C Cat courses dont mention anything about this!
EVERY student is different(as U will find out)
Treat them with respect, help them every step of the way, know when to 'back off' and let the student make some mistakes (to learn from) but DONT belittle them for this, use it as a teaching tool. and, my pet hate, for goodness sake, leave the flamin controls alone!
LET the STUDENT fly the plane!
It is easy to spot the better instructors, they always have a following of students.
Good luck with the C Cat, if you screw sometihing up, SAY SO, honesty is the best policy!
Lotsa good advice for the budding C Cats.!!
Remember one thing when u get a C cat, PERSONALITY and ATTITUDE play a huge part in instructing.
MOST C Cat courses dont mention anything about this!
EVERY student is different(as U will find out)
Treat them with respect, help them every step of the way, know when to 'back off' and let the student make some mistakes (to learn from) but DONT belittle them for this, use it as a teaching tool. and, my pet hate, for goodness sake, leave the flamin controls alone!
LET the STUDENT fly the plane!
It is easy to spot the better instructors, they always have a following of students.
Good luck with the C Cat, if you screw sometihing up, SAY SO, honesty is the best policy!
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Yes i agree loco, i have found it pretty interesting, although no real surprises aye. Although to address a previous post im not trying to short cut the C cat's testing procedure by asking for advice am i? Anyways had a break from the C CAt stuff for a while, looking foward to getting back into it
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Readbackcorrect,
You are certainly not short-cutting the training by asking questions. I didn't mean to suggest that you were. Apologies.
Keep asking questions. You'll either find an answer, or realise that no one else knows either! Either way you feel better anyway.
Good luck. I've got my A-Cat renewal next month so I'd better dust my own notes off a bit. Haven't flown anything piston-powered for over six months. Maybe I can just put the examiner in the jumpseat at work and patter through a few upper air exercises with the autopilot off.
Then again, I'd rather leave the AP on and have a coffee. Bugger the renewal.
Bombay.
You are certainly not short-cutting the training by asking questions. I didn't mean to suggest that you were. Apologies.
Keep asking questions. You'll either find an answer, or realise that no one else knows either! Either way you feel better anyway.
Good luck. I've got my A-Cat renewal next month so I'd better dust my own notes off a bit. Haven't flown anything piston-powered for over six months. Maybe I can just put the examiner in the jumpseat at work and patter through a few upper air exercises with the autopilot off.
Then again, I'd rather leave the AP on and have a coffee. Bugger the renewal.
Bombay.
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some great advise amongst the replies - regardless of the testing officer ensure that you are there before they are!
Also ensure you and the aircraft are well presented - first impressions count for a lot.......and if you make a mistake try not let it throw you!
good luck
Also ensure you and the aircraft are well presented - first impressions count for a lot.......and if you make a mistake try not let it throw you!
good luck