...............This time wankers

[Kornholio]

they are of course always standing by.

So why do they need an "offering"???

Another example of the tables turning. Pilots' procedures being altered to make life easier for everyone else in the picture.

If they're always standing by, then they are ready for a position report at any time. Let's face it, what else do they have to do other than their JOB??? If you don't make an "offering", are you going to interrupt something important like the guy:

drinking his coffee
chatting to his mate about last night's drunken sh@g
picking his nose.

If he's any good, the operator would friggin-well KNOW you're gonna make a POSREP any time now and be ready for it because other-wise it means you've flown into a freakin mountainside someplace!!! And that's the whole idea!!!!!

They are there to do a job: Provide ATS - air traffic SERVICE. They can run around after us, not the other way around. Instead of just getting on with it and noting the POSREP they whinge about not getting their "offering" and then interrupt your transition checks with a freq change right at 10000' when they KNOW you're busy.

Just say, : "Say again, you were in with a checklist/cabin station/crossword..."

[duke of duchess]

showing my age hmmmmm, i thought we had to keep up with changes in procedures. isn't that in the job description, and considered part of proffesionalism

[Kornholio]

I love it when pilots carry on about "proffesionalism" but can't actually spell it!!!!

What a classic!

[Spotlight]

Try getting used to my FMS with its predicative, ve, ve, estimate. Practice tells you to put an extra minute on.

[Not_Another_Pot]

CFI, could not agree more! Other things that bug me are:

1) Coming down from the north VFR enjoying the view just out over the sea when suddenly another aircraft is spotted going the other way at the same alt and also over the sea

2) Arriving at my little airfield just south of JT and making a radio call stating that fact. Of the three aircraft doing bumps only one is kind enough to let me know she is there. The remainder say bloody nothing

Man I'm off to get a traffic warning device!

NAPpy

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Let's face it, what else do they have to do other than their JOB??? If you don't make an "offering", are you going to interrupt something important like the guy:
drinking his coffee
chatting to his mate about last night's drunken sh@g
picking his nose.

also add one or more of the following ;
coordinating traffic with adjacant sectors,
talking on another frequency,
working multple sectors,


So what's the problem in 'offering' to help the ATCO multitask and prioritize.

[triadic]

Bigg's.. there is no real problem with "offering" but as I said before, once upon a time we got by without it. You may well say that the equipment and traffic levels are different these days, but then explain that to the controllers (and pilots) in other countries that seem to get most of the calls first time on VHF. In fact in some places the traffic levels are such that you could not afford to have such a practice.

It went the other way as well, when some controllers would just transmit a SID and expect the crew to pick up on it... from my experience most did, but a few well chosen complaints saw a change in instructions resulting with SIDs having to be offered. Many of these changes were blamed on the intro of TAAATS which in many cases sounded quite valid. Now that it is in and running maybe we can all benefit from the promised efficiencies.

Hey! we both have a job to do and part of that is communicating on the radio. Obviously at times we have other tasks to do and training should train both controllers and pilots to multi-task and prioritise those tasks. Often there is tasks that generate a "say again", but at the same time I believe many say again's are because of poor training, inability to prioritise or just plain laziness.

[duke of duchess]

sorry korn old boy, I guess my spelling could use a bit of improvment, I would like to thank you for bringing that to my attention I shall aim to improve.

why doesnt this come with spell checker

[AerocatS2A]

Multitasking is all well and good except that as long as ATCos are going to be working more than one sector or whatever then you need the offering to avoid the response: "ABC you were in with a ground station, say again."

As for the coastal VFR route north of Perth, my impression from the VNC/VTC is that it is only active while certain restricted areas are active, when there are no restricted areas, there is no VFR route.

[triadic]

Aerocat... if you go back a few years, it was quite common for Flight Service and other ATS agencies to monitor numerous VHF frequencies as well as HF. This was of course before the day of "retransmission". If ATS staff and pilots were trained in the same manner as those a decade+ or so ago the problems that you mention would be minimal. I don't hear pilots say "in with the CSM, say again" very often, if at all. Such a response, as used far too frequently by ATS, although maybe correct shows an inability to prioritise tasks, within the available hardware. Mind you, from what I have seen, the VHF switching within TAAATS does not help much - maybe it makes it worse. And this is meant to be an advanced system.....! Go o/s and you would be laughed at.

[Kornholio]

Then there's the quaint habit of Callsign at the end of transmissions, all the time even though the AIP calls for only readbacks to be suffixed with callsign.
Eg: "Virgil 69 report heading."

"heading 090 Virgil 69."

Get it right guys, just read the regs, it's very simple.

This leads to, instead of the remark beginning with the callsign, it invariably begins with the yank-style "oka-aaaay..." or "understand..." or "roger..." or all three, as in:

"Okay, roger, understand cleared to....." Who are these twits, congesting the airways with this unnecessary crap? You can thank the Rat as it was they who pushed for the (then) CAA to abandon the variation and adopt the ICAO practice.

Problem is ignorance. Also some people are afraid to make a reply without reading back every single extraneous word, like, "cleared to" and "when ready" instead of just the actual level/heading/speed/whatever.

Thanks to the rat, we changed to this format some years ago. Back then some Rat dweeb actually wrote a dissertation on the benefits in the safety digest and assured the rest of the aviation community that they'd all see the logic and benefits of doing things rat-style, even though at that stage it was contrary to the AIP.

Thanks Rat.

[Spodman]

"airborne, standby for departure."

Makes me want to do what they ask, not make any reply and wait for the departure...

[Bevan666]

"airborne, standby for departure."

There is a good reason for this report though. If I do a lawn dart between getting airborne and departing the aerodrome you will have started a sar watch and hopefully it will be noticed I am missing a lot lot sooner than otherwise.

Bevan..

[triadic]

Bevan.. I don't think anyone says the reason for the call is without good reason, it is the call itself which we are critical of

viz

"Melbourne ABC airborne Tyabb"

(NOTE: no "standby for departure")

It is just not needed and means nothing - so why do pilots still say this...??

Training is the problem again !

[Bevan666]

Doh, I stand corrected.

[Low-Pass]

CFI - I think you're being a little pedantic here. Yes, it's not a "lane", but everyone knows it as such. If someone says, "Fremantle Golf Course, northbound in the lane..." everyone knows what they are doing. (I agree that there is no need to say "this time".)

With regard to getting radar advisory, that's well and good but instead of one transmission, you get three. Simply reporting your position, others will look out for you and (hopefully) pipe up if there is a conflict. Anyone going along that little stretch of coast NEEDS to keep a good lookout.

Aside from that, Perth Radar is very good at calling any possible conflicts.

Cheers,

LP

[Spodman]

Another thing I've learnt from this thread, you can post the word "wankers" rather than "w@nkers" or "w*nkers" without Mr. Grumpy appearing!

A great leap forward for personal expression.

[Spinnerhead]

VFR v IFR v ILUVMYVOICE

If you are VFR, keep your trap shut and your eyes open, no matter how important you think you are. OR go IFR and pay to talk.

If you are IFR, read the friggin AIP, or equivalent, and make your broadcasts verbatim. OR press the transmitt switch and just say "I'M A WANKERS"

Every time you transmit your own special brand of the AIP, and we see you on the apron, after hearing you on the radio, we will have a little snigger, and think to ourselves "WANKERS"!

edited to change "w@nker" to "wankers" so it wouldn't get ****ed out.

[karrank]

Just a bit harsh Spannerhead... But it does get a bit annoying getting repeated broadcasts on the area freq of some bug-smasher doing circuits at ArgleBargle.

Do you find it annoying when IFR make 'personal AIP' calls on descent OCTA?

[Captain Sand Dune]

And my all time favourite:

"All stations Oonagalabie CTAF, XYZ, 10NM North, 3,000FT, inbound, circuit area 43. All stations Oonagalabie"

Gee, why not just repeat the whole call!!