GA award
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Have you thought of doing a s e a r c h on the internet?
Here you go...http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...18&quickview=Y
Here you go...http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...18&quickview=Y
Join Date: Dec 2004
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The general aviation award is as follows..............
The first 3 years you pay as much as you can afford on more endorsments and even more training. Your expected to donate 90 hours a week to your chosen employer. This stage it helps to borrow 30 or 40 thousand dollars so you can pay your employer a lump sum to ensure your tenure. During this stage you make friends by bartending or cleaning, these will help you after stage 4 get employment other than aviation.
Stage 2 YOU get paid to $20 an hour to fly, the catch is you only get 9 hours a month while still doing the 90 hours a week cleaning Aircraft and doing other peoples quotes and flightplans.
Stage 3 you go up a notch and they let you fly the Aircraft to maintaince and back, that's only if the other pilots are over hours. Your flying time is now up to 12 hours a month and things are great. The bartending or cleaning is still proving the staple diet of noodles and bakedbeans.
Stage 4, the powers that be are going to have to "let you go" because there is a young female with a bare grade 3 and commercial who would like to work for them. They will start her wages off at $40,000 + all the flying she wants to do, meanwhile you still only doing 12 hours a month. If it's not the young female it's going to be somebody else that will now pay for your 12 hours a month (reduced rate of corse) and anyway you now have 223.6 hours and the airlines will be fighting each other for your services.
After spending $45,000 on training and endorsments you now go back to bartending waiting from the call from airlines.
The award for bartending is $450 a 38 hour week + super
The first 3 years you pay as much as you can afford on more endorsments and even more training. Your expected to donate 90 hours a week to your chosen employer. This stage it helps to borrow 30 or 40 thousand dollars so you can pay your employer a lump sum to ensure your tenure. During this stage you make friends by bartending or cleaning, these will help you after stage 4 get employment other than aviation.
Stage 2 YOU get paid to $20 an hour to fly, the catch is you only get 9 hours a month while still doing the 90 hours a week cleaning Aircraft and doing other peoples quotes and flightplans.
Stage 3 you go up a notch and they let you fly the Aircraft to maintaince and back, that's only if the other pilots are over hours. Your flying time is now up to 12 hours a month and things are great. The bartending or cleaning is still proving the staple diet of noodles and bakedbeans.
Stage 4, the powers that be are going to have to "let you go" because there is a young female with a bare grade 3 and commercial who would like to work for them. They will start her wages off at $40,000 + all the flying she wants to do, meanwhile you still only doing 12 hours a month. If it's not the young female it's going to be somebody else that will now pay for your 12 hours a month (reduced rate of corse) and anyway you now have 223.6 hours and the airlines will be fighting each other for your services.
After spending $45,000 on training and endorsments you now go back to bartending waiting from the call from airlines.
The award for bartending is $450 a 38 hour week + super
No one holds a gun to your head to make you "work" for free.
The award is legally enforceable and retrospective. Keep accurate records, have photos of yourself at work and when you leave put in a claim for unpaid wages. This is of course the cowards way out, rather than talk to the boss about what you should get paid.
The biggest issue I see is not people actually working for free but people being underpaid. eg fly 1.3 hours in a 7 hour duty day and get paid 1.3 x "the rate", when in fact they should be paid for each four hour period of duty regardless of hours flown.
Even if you ignore the award there is still a legal minimum "full time" wage in this country. If you do not have the balls to ask for what you are legally entitled, what those before you have fought for, then you deserve to be tending bar and not flying passengers around. A Captain requires a backbone, for a pilot it is optional.
The award is legally enforceable and retrospective. Keep accurate records, have photos of yourself at work and when you leave put in a claim for unpaid wages. This is of course the cowards way out, rather than talk to the boss about what you should get paid.
The biggest issue I see is not people actually working for free but people being underpaid. eg fly 1.3 hours in a 7 hour duty day and get paid 1.3 x "the rate", when in fact they should be paid for each four hour period of duty regardless of hours flown.
Even if you ignore the award there is still a legal minimum "full time" wage in this country. If you do not have the balls to ask for what you are legally entitled, what those before you have fought for, then you deserve to be tending bar and not flying passengers around. A Captain requires a backbone, for a pilot it is optional.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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............Bulk supply, not much demand
Icarus2001, what you said sounds great "The award is legally enforceable and retrospective" always has been, still doesn't stop people working for nothing. An individual Work Place Agreement is the way of the future, another beut Johnny legacy.
Duty hours are an absolute joke, working extra hours or unpaid overtime has been increasing the last 10 years, in and outside Aviation. CASA know excatly how many hours are worked they just go throught the motions and shuffle a few more papers, get some new forms made manditory and fill in the days the best they can, if they get a free fly that's a bonus.
Having the balls to ask for minimum wage means no employment, this is the real state of GA. What people have fought before has no bearing on so called modern workplace, supply and demand. .
While ever you have mobs churning out pilots like a sausage machine you will have people willing to work for nothing. While ever you have kids around willing to work for nothing the problem will never change. Vicious circle getting worse.
A Captain requires a backbone, for a pilot it is optional. That's a great phrase but what has that to do with the employment in GA?
This is the state of GA today, it's only going to get worse. This condition will will carry on through regionals to airlines, in 10 years do you think it's possible that VB and Jetstar pilots will be on half what they are on now? My guess is they will.
Duty hours are an absolute joke, working extra hours or unpaid overtime has been increasing the last 10 years, in and outside Aviation. CASA know excatly how many hours are worked they just go throught the motions and shuffle a few more papers, get some new forms made manditory and fill in the days the best they can, if they get a free fly that's a bonus.
Having the balls to ask for minimum wage means no employment, this is the real state of GA. What people have fought before has no bearing on so called modern workplace, supply and demand. .
While ever you have mobs churning out pilots like a sausage machine you will have people willing to work for nothing. While ever you have kids around willing to work for nothing the problem will never change. Vicious circle getting worse.
A Captain requires a backbone, for a pilot it is optional. That's a great phrase but what has that to do with the employment in GA?
This is the state of GA today, it's only going to get worse. This condition will will carry on through regionals to airlines, in 10 years do you think it's possible that VB and Jetstar pilots will be on half what they are on now? My guess is they will.
While ever you have kids around willing to work for nothing the problem will never change.
The pilot has choices...
1. Continue taking the pineapple but record eveything and put in a claim on leaving the company. (Spineless but effective)
2. Talk to the boss. Ask politely what they are offering in terms and conditions. On commencement get a letter of employment. (Requires backbone)
3. Continue taking the pineapple and move on ASAP leaving the same problem for the next pilot.
4. Leave for another occupation.
in 10 years do you think it's possible that VB and Jetstar pilots will be on half what they are on now? My guess is they will.
Supply and demand wins everytime but we are responsible for our own personal situation. So if you don't like that situation then CHOOSE another one.
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Icarus2001, I am not defending the way it is.
I made my career choice 25 years ago have always been paid and am happy with the choice. The events of 89 shaped way things are now, that's the real world, if the AFAP and the federal government had acted differently at the time maybe Pilots would have a union setup like the AMA. They didn't and that's the way things are, as I said I'm not defending it just telling it like it is.
I made my career choice 25 years ago have always been paid and am happy with the choice. The events of 89 shaped way things are now, that's the real world, if the AFAP and the federal government had acted differently at the time maybe Pilots would have a union setup like the AMA. They didn't and that's the way things are, as I said I'm not defending it just telling it like it is.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Gentlemen; I believe that the original question was what is the award rate of pay. G Cantstandya did not request a general dissertation of how various posters percieve the industry.
To address the question; suggest you 'phone AFAP
03 96994200
and ask them. I suspect that they would be only too pleased to tell you even if you are not a member.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
To address the question; suggest you 'phone AFAP
03 96994200
and ask them. I suspect that they would be only too pleased to tell you even if you are not a member.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Pinky I think it all gris to the mill. If you read above you will see TWO links to the award.
Super Cecil, I agree. Pilots need to know that
A) The award exists and is enforceable whether you are in the AFAP or not.
B) ALL companies in Australia MUST pay it. It is not optional. It matters not if they are not listed as a respondent or roped in.
C) This "contract" get your own ABN technique is very dubious, the ATO consider anyone an employee if they work for only one company.
D) They can stand up for their rights politely.
The frustrating thing is that there are huge federal departments who are supposed to "protect" these twentysomethings but they do not.
The ATO could stop this nonsense with one ruling.
The other thought to ponder is that if an operator genuinely cannot pay for your services as a pilot due to lack of margin then how are they paying for their maintenance? The better operators try to do the right thing. Perhaps you won't always get the extras like meal allowances and night flying allowance etc but at least a liveable day rate.
BROOME: Just read that there are 25 pilots waiting for a start over there. More canon fodder.
Super Cecil, I agree. Pilots need to know that
A) The award exists and is enforceable whether you are in the AFAP or not.
B) ALL companies in Australia MUST pay it. It is not optional. It matters not if they are not listed as a respondent or roped in.
C) This "contract" get your own ABN technique is very dubious, the ATO consider anyone an employee if they work for only one company.
D) They can stand up for their rights politely.
The frustrating thing is that there are huge federal departments who are supposed to "protect" these twentysomethings but they do not.
The ATO could stop this nonsense with one ruling.
The other thought to ponder is that if an operator genuinely cannot pay for your services as a pilot due to lack of margin then how are they paying for their maintenance? The better operators try to do the right thing. Perhaps you won't always get the extras like meal allowances and night flying allowance etc but at least a liveable day rate.
BROOME: Just read that there are 25 pilots waiting for a start over there. More canon fodder.
May the coolest shades win.
