Aircraft incident at Brampton Island
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Just Fact, thats all.
Maximus and practise
I am sorry if you have somehow taken offence to the simple truth being reported.
Your quote 'one wheel came off the runway when turning around' doesn't quite add up. How then would you explain the 40 odd metres of three deep trenches left in the sand, or the trail of destruction of the gable markers? Or maybe the sight of the aircraft on an unusual attitude prior to having to be towed out?
FYI the area forcast was 340/10. This might help you comprehend why the other operators were all using runway 14 rather than 32.
Practise. - FYI CASA airworthiness were already in Mackay on other tasks that day. The 40 odd other people that saw and spoke to CASA would confirm that CASA met the aircraft on arrival back in Mackay after it flew all the way back with the gear down and no notation on the M/R for the 'apparant brake failure'.
For the rest.
Thanks for your posts, CASA NQAO are a big problem, they are deceiptful and just downright bullies who think that they are unaccountable.
I for one know that industry is working behind the scenes to have a bit of its own back and that 2005 will be the year of karma for the NQAO.
I am sorry if you have somehow taken offence to the simple truth being reported.
Your quote 'one wheel came off the runway when turning around' doesn't quite add up. How then would you explain the 40 odd metres of three deep trenches left in the sand, or the trail of destruction of the gable markers? Or maybe the sight of the aircraft on an unusual attitude prior to having to be towed out?
FYI the area forcast was 340/10. This might help you comprehend why the other operators were all using runway 14 rather than 32.
Practise. - FYI CASA airworthiness were already in Mackay on other tasks that day. The 40 odd other people that saw and spoke to CASA would confirm that CASA met the aircraft on arrival back in Mackay after it flew all the way back with the gear down and no notation on the M/R for the 'apparant brake failure'.
For the rest.
Thanks for your posts, CASA NQAO are a big problem, they are deceiptful and just downright bullies who think that they are unaccountable.
I for one know that industry is working behind the scenes to have a bit of its own back and that 2005 will be the year of karma for the NQAO.
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Natbanger
There is one enemy, CASA Tvl.
Oppps, sorry, two, snivelling, backstabbing whingers.
Where do you place yourself? you have a problem with CASA, yet you help them attack with your post (and they do).
Yes, people like those in the Tvl office are in for a wake up, but your judas like behaviour doen't help.
In my eyes you are part of the problem not part of the solution.
Max
There is one enemy, CASA Tvl.
Oppps, sorry, two, snivelling, backstabbing whingers.
Where do you place yourself? you have a problem with CASA, yet you help them attack with your post (and they do).
Yes, people like those in the Tvl office are in for a wake up, but your judas like behaviour doen't help.
In my eyes you are part of the problem not part of the solution.
Max
Just Binos
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What a fabulous thread! Looking on with completely impartial interest! 
Perhaps something useful will finally come of it, but somehow I doubt it.
Perhaps something useful will finally come of it, but somehow I doubt it.
Last edited by Binoculars; 21st Dec 2004 at 11:33.
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Yes, indeed, Binos!
You would be amazed at the number of emails Woomera has received regarding this incident and the CASA office in far north Queensland - including emails from people who claim they are too scared to post, even anonymously.
Woomera
You would be amazed at the number of emails Woomera has received regarding this incident and the CASA office in far north Queensland - including emails from people who claim they are too scared to post, even anonymously.
Woomera
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Lets get the ball rolling
Ok,
For all of you who are to scared to post through fear of retribution, how about do it generally so it can't be specific about you. I'll give you a start and lead with both Balls.
My challenge is that can anyone please provide any more solid cases of injustice that have been done by the above named.
I know they probably read this but really who gives a Sh_t as they really deserve to read feedback.
Cheers
For all of you who are to scared to post through fear of retribution, how about do it generally so it can't be specific about you. I'll give you a start and lead with both Balls.
My challenge is that can anyone please provide any more solid cases of injustice that have been done by the above named.
I know they probably read this but really who gives a Sh_t as they really deserve to read feedback.
Cheers
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Dec 2004 at 22:32.
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natbanger
Then take it up with CASA or AOPA. As for your supposed BPI incident, you would give yourself and the whole industry more credence if you tried a bit of solidarity for a change.
Even if what you said were 100% true (and I have strong reason to believe it was 93% exaggeration) GA operators don't need that sort of sniping when (as you correctly point out) they have rogue CASA offices to deal with.
You got an issue with T and P I suggest you go (cap and beer in hand as an apology) and sort it with them man to man (so to speak).
Max
Then take it up with CASA or AOPA. As for your supposed BPI incident, you would give yourself and the whole industry more credence if you tried a bit of solidarity for a change.
Even if what you said were 100% true (and I have strong reason to believe it was 93% exaggeration) GA operators don't need that sort of sniping when (as you correctly point out) they have rogue CASA offices to deal with.
You got an issue with T and P I suggest you go (cap and beer in hand as an apology) and sort it with them man to man (so to speak).
Max
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CS
CASA exempt themselves from Ombudsman activity on 'safety grounds'. They make regulation without RIS because 'what they change has minimal impact'. They con the AAT with VERY expensive (but just as useless as the rest of them) lawyers and their own (in my view absolutely incompetent) legal team .. and especially recalcitrant manager.
Basically they have grown used to NO accountability.
If you have evidence, send it to AOPA or Bruce Byron personally. To send it anywhere else is a waste of time. (Especially the Minister, he is having a blonde century).
Max
CASA exempt themselves from Ombudsman activity on 'safety grounds'. They make regulation without RIS because 'what they change has minimal impact'. They con the AAT with VERY expensive (but just as useless as the rest of them) lawyers and their own (in my view absolutely incompetent) legal team .. and especially recalcitrant manager.
Basically they have grown used to NO accountability.
If you have evidence, send it to AOPA or Bruce Byron personally. To send it anywhere else is a waste of time. (Especially the Minister, he is having a blonde century).
Max
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IF you have evidence !!
Nad-banger, if you did have balls and the purported ability to lead you would have approached T and P in the manner in which Maximus suggested.
Dont drag the rest of the NQ industry who are quite content with the regulator into your vitriole.:yuk
Nad-banger, if you did have balls and the purported ability to lead you would have approached T and P in the manner in which Maximus suggested.
Dont drag the rest of the NQ industry who are quite content with the regulator into your vitriole.:yuk
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While I do think the industry needs to pull together I still think there is a problem with the FNQ office and have quite a bit of solid, anecdotal and circumstantial evidence.
But sometimes, some operators give me the shivers. If the NQ Dive Industry had behaved like this (especially after the Lonergan fiasco and subsequent movie) they would have been kaput.
Instead they rallied (even around the operator that allegedly stuffed up) and saved the industry.
GA could learn from that.
If you guys could keep a certain mail contract in Cns, regardless of who got it, the flow down in maintenance, parts, wages, jobs, , training, hangar rent etc etc would benefit the WHOLE FNQ aviation industry. If you all got together and got fair up the regulator, instead of snivelling and sniping (and I don't accuse you all ... just an obvious few ) then more and more contracts would stay with FNQ operators rather that going to (in some cases dodgy ... remember CoastWatch in the 80's) southern operators.
Perhaps you need a FNQ GA Assopciation or council or summit???
Max
But sometimes, some operators give me the shivers. If the NQ Dive Industry had behaved like this (especially after the Lonergan fiasco and subsequent movie) they would have been kaput.
Instead they rallied (even around the operator that allegedly stuffed up) and saved the industry.
GA could learn from that.
If you guys could keep a certain mail contract in Cns, regardless of who got it, the flow down in maintenance, parts, wages, jobs, , training, hangar rent etc etc would benefit the WHOLE FNQ aviation industry. If you all got together and got fair up the regulator, instead of snivelling and sniping (and I don't accuse you all ... just an obvious few ) then more and more contracts would stay with FNQ operators rather that going to (in some cases dodgy ... remember CoastWatch in the 80's) southern operators.
Perhaps you need a FNQ GA Assopciation or council or summit???
Max
'Ran off the runway end while landing long' also seems to be a complete fabrication. A RELIABLE eyewitness states 'the aircraft was turning round and one wheel went off the runway' (not necessarily off the end).
Go have a look for yourselves at:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/summary/index.cfm
DF.
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Natbanger ,
You are either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. To name a CASA legal council and an investigator of basically corruption is a very brave move. I most certainly hope you have some pretty good evidence to back up your rather "open slur" against 2 very powerful people in the Federal Government.
Good Luck. You will probably need it.
TBT
You are either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. To name a CASA legal council and an investigator of basically corruption is a very brave move. I most certainly hope you have some pretty good evidence to back up your rather "open slur" against 2 very powerful people in the Federal Government.
Good Luck. You will probably need it.
TBT
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All available on the public record:
ATSB Notification Log:
Date: 15DEC2004
Cat: 5
Aircraft: VH-ZHZ
Description: Accident – Aircraft
Location: Brampton Island
CASA Aircraft Register:
Make and type: Piper Aircraft Corp PA-23
Model: PA-23-250
Serial number: 27-3211
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 14/07/1981
Certificate of Registration holder as of 02/04/2002
MS BEATRICE JESSY MAHLBERG
PO BOX 702
MACKAY QLD 4740
Property Interest Holders:
Obviously a "notifiable occurrance" which the ATSB classify as an "accident". Did the aircraft fly back to Mackay without an inspection and possibly a Permit to Fly?
ATSB Notification Log:
Date: 15DEC2004
Cat: 5
Aircraft: VH-ZHZ
Description: Accident – Aircraft
Location: Brampton Island
CASA Aircraft Register:
Make and type: Piper Aircraft Corp PA-23
Model: PA-23-250
Serial number: 27-3211
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 14/07/1981
Certificate of Registration holder as of 02/04/2002
MS BEATRICE JESSY MAHLBERG
PO BOX 702
MACKAY QLD 4740
Property Interest Holders:
Obviously a "notifiable occurrance" which the ATSB classify as an "accident". Did the aircraft fly back to Mackay without an inspection and possibly a Permit to Fly?
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd Dec 2004 at 22:30.
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Folks,
I would really like to draw a clear line between the two topics that are being addressed here,
1> Brampton Island Incident, personally i have no opinion, and
2> CASA FNQ continued incompetence and inability to effectively conduct the job that they have been assigned.
To that end i am going to start a thread, " BB, FNQ aviation needs your help", i am sure BB, DA and AC will be reading.
For those in the industry this is a chance to vote.
I would really like to draw a clear line between the two topics that are being addressed here,
1> Brampton Island Incident, personally i have no opinion, and
2> CASA FNQ continued incompetence and inability to effectively conduct the job that they have been assigned.
To that end i am going to start a thread, " BB, FNQ aviation needs your help", i am sure BB, DA and AC will be reading.
For those in the industry this is a chance to vote.
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Maximus B
Max, if you "think" there is a problem with the Townsville Office, you haven't yet been a victim of it.
It is beyond any reasonable doubt that there are serious problems with this office.
It is reasonable to assume the Minister, Anderson, is aware.
It is reasonable to assume the Director of CASA is aware.
It is reasonable to assume that the new Area Manager is aware.
It is reasonable to assume that all FNQ operators are aware.
Problem seems to be as follows;
Anderson probably expects Byron to fix it.
Byron probably expects the new area manager to fix it.
The offenders are confident that they will be protected by this avoidance of responsibility by all above them.
The offenders are the advisors for the new area manager.
If we all wait long enough, this present airing will evaporate or blow away and the misconduct can again come forth, because no one really cares enough to fix it.
Max, if you "think" there is a problem with the Townsville Office, you haven't yet been a victim of it.
It is beyond any reasonable doubt that there are serious problems with this office.
It is reasonable to assume the Minister, Anderson, is aware.
It is reasonable to assume the Director of CASA is aware.
It is reasonable to assume that the new Area Manager is aware.
It is reasonable to assume that all FNQ operators are aware.
Problem seems to be as follows;
Anderson probably expects Byron to fix it.
Byron probably expects the new area manager to fix it.
The offenders are confident that they will be protected by this avoidance of responsibility by all above them.
The offenders are the advisors for the new area manager.
If we all wait long enough, this present airing will evaporate or blow away and the misconduct can again come forth, because no one really cares enough to fix it.
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Stinkfinger and Maximus B
Max, understand your interest, there are very few people who don't know some of the affected, and some who are relieved that while almost all the NQAO's efforts have been wasted trying to pull at least two AOC's, others have been spared due to the inability of this office to get on with it's job when almost all of it's resources are directed to sustained vendettas.
Stinky, you are simplifying and dividing the issue in trying to seperate BPI and FNQ misconduct.
This thread obviously started because of the close inter realtionship of these issues.
The thread started because of an obvious (to most) double standard displayed by the Townsville Office.
An established existing operator has been subject to extreme commercial harm, with no record of safety problems warranting the attention they received.
This led to a cancellation of an AOC and a successful (but very expensive) appeal in the AAT to re-instate the AOC.
Another newer operator on the field appears to be protected from the excesses of the Townsville office.
People notice these two sets of standards because they are obvious.
This is why the thread started, it ties together the known problems of the Townsville Office and how they choose to treat two different operators on the same field.
Seperating the two only serves to diminish the thread and protect one of the opeartors at the expense of the other.
Max, understand your interest, there are very few people who don't know some of the affected, and some who are relieved that while almost all the NQAO's efforts have been wasted trying to pull at least two AOC's, others have been spared due to the inability of this office to get on with it's job when almost all of it's resources are directed to sustained vendettas.
Stinky, you are simplifying and dividing the issue in trying to seperate BPI and FNQ misconduct.
This thread obviously started because of the close inter realtionship of these issues.
The thread started because of an obvious (to most) double standard displayed by the Townsville Office.
An established existing operator has been subject to extreme commercial harm, with no record of safety problems warranting the attention they received.
This led to a cancellation of an AOC and a successful (but very expensive) appeal in the AAT to re-instate the AOC.
Another newer operator on the field appears to be protected from the excesses of the Townsville office.
People notice these two sets of standards because they are obvious.
This is why the thread started, it ties together the known problems of the Townsville Office and how they choose to treat two different operators on the same field.
Seperating the two only serves to diminish the thread and protect one of the opeartors at the expense of the other.
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of course natbanger wouldn't bring it up woth AOPA... who do u think was flying the aircraft?
he'd prefer to sling crap from the sidelines rather than actually do something
he'd prefer to sling crap from the sidelines rather than actually do something