Why publish minimum experience
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Why publish minimum experience
Can anyone tell me why skippers bother advertising minimum standards for crew positions?
It is a total joke given that recently skippers gave a job to a guy that has not even got 250 hours multi. Now jobs for the boys is one thing, but where do they get off knocking cats back for interviews and jobs who actually meet the minimums, have good charter experience and then handing out interviews and jobs to guys who don’t have the qualifications to even apply by the skippers own standards.
A good mate of mine warned me that Skippers operated a system that was pure nepotism and like others chose to ignore it, fact is he was dead right their system is so corrupt. The story goes the guys father pulled a few strings and hey presto it’s not what you know but who you know. How does that make the guys who worked hard to get there view there achievement?
A guy I met from the west told me that skippers made it known to a mate of his that his mate could have a job so long as he got a mate of the management a job in return…… by all accounts to his credit he declined the offer, but guess what, yep …..He missed out, thats how they reward integrity.
Now take another guy from the tropic of Capricorn that took the same deal, sold his sole and did the favor …. Yep you guessed it he got an interview straight away but I doubt he’ll get a job now that the favor has been done. Thats how they reward no integrity.
What ever happened to the level playing field, the right person for the right job? Getting a job on your merits ? What ever happened to good corporate practice?
Is there anything in the equal opportunities act, fair trading act or some other legislation that covers this sort of behavior? What about false advertising after all 250hrs isn’t close to the minimums? What about the corporate work ethic of such an organization or the moral responsibility to have a fair and equitable HR process?
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has heard of or had similar experiences with this company, just to see how wide spread the problem really is …
It is a total joke given that recently skippers gave a job to a guy that has not even got 250 hours multi. Now jobs for the boys is one thing, but where do they get off knocking cats back for interviews and jobs who actually meet the minimums, have good charter experience and then handing out interviews and jobs to guys who don’t have the qualifications to even apply by the skippers own standards.
A good mate of mine warned me that Skippers operated a system that was pure nepotism and like others chose to ignore it, fact is he was dead right their system is so corrupt. The story goes the guys father pulled a few strings and hey presto it’s not what you know but who you know. How does that make the guys who worked hard to get there view there achievement?
A guy I met from the west told me that skippers made it known to a mate of his that his mate could have a job so long as he got a mate of the management a job in return…… by all accounts to his credit he declined the offer, but guess what, yep …..He missed out, thats how they reward integrity.
Now take another guy from the tropic of Capricorn that took the same deal, sold his sole and did the favor …. Yep you guessed it he got an interview straight away but I doubt he’ll get a job now that the favor has been done. Thats how they reward no integrity.
What ever happened to the level playing field, the right person for the right job? Getting a job on your merits ? What ever happened to good corporate practice?
Is there anything in the equal opportunities act, fair trading act or some other legislation that covers this sort of behavior? What about false advertising after all 250hrs isn’t close to the minimums? What about the corporate work ethic of such an organization or the moral responsibility to have a fair and equitable HR process?
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has heard of or had similar experiences with this company, just to see how wide spread the problem really is …
The skyworks display has been set a little early, watch this one fire.
But yes I have heard stories along the same lines. Im sure Skippers aren't the only ones mate. It may be wrong and 'just not cricket' but when it comes down to it, it happens in all industries and not just aviation.
Chin up dude have a beer and when things happen for you with YOUR OWN HARD WORK it will taste a little colder than usual.
But yes I have heard stories along the same lines. Im sure Skippers aren't the only ones mate. It may be wrong and 'just not cricket' but when it comes down to it, it happens in all industries and not just aviation.
Chin up dude have a beer and when things happen for you with YOUR OWN HARD WORK it will taste a little colder than usual.
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What ever happened to the level playing field, the right person for the right job? Getting a job on your merits ? What ever happened to good corporate practice?
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It's a darn shame I know... but you have to get over it...
That's how most people get their jobs. You should try it.
Even Bill Clinton tried to get Monica a job at his mates law firm
That's how most people get their jobs. You should try it.
Even Bill Clinton tried to get Monica a job at his mates law firm
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Yep
Unfortunately youve gotta play the game or be played by it.
I cant stand doing it personally, but I have learnt over ten years that sometimes you have to be lpeasan to people you wouldnt normall to get where you want to go.
Unfortunately you have to just do it. Everyone does it and few like doing it.
I cant stand doing it personally, but I have learnt over ten years that sometimes you have to be lpeasan to people you wouldnt normall to get where you want to go.
Unfortunately you have to just do it. Everyone does it and few like doing it.
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Nepo,
I don't know the company and I'll tell you that this sort of thing isn't only in aviation, but remember this - What comes around, goes around.
One day you may be the one that is laughing.
In the mean time, chill, have another beer, and keep a "Little Black Book" on those type of people.
Good luck.
I don't know the company and I'll tell you that this sort of thing isn't only in aviation, but remember this - What comes around, goes around.
One day you may be the one that is laughing.
In the mean time, chill, have another beer, and keep a "Little Black Book" on those type of people.
Good luck.
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Nepo
Why are you getting in a lather about this?
You appear to be hot and bothered about:
(a) Something that has not affected you (unless you've
applied and been knocked back and have not told us
here); and
(b) something that you are hearing second and third hand
from "a good mate of mine" and "a mate I met in W.A who
told me about a mate of his"
GET OVER IT!
In any industry, company recruiting can appear odd and unfair to outsiders, especially if they've been rejected.
How do YOU know that the guys with good charter experience didn't have other attributes that Skippers didn't want? (That appeared either in an interview or in their CV).
How do YOU know that the guy with less than 250 hours multi didn't have attributes that they DID want (e.g. 200 hours Chieftain time doing RPT runs?)
Skippers may be as bad as you make out. But do you think that anyone who reads this is going to change their mind about applying to Skippers for work?
My advice:
If you don't like the recruiting process at Skippers, then DON'T APPLY FOR WORK THERE!
(How easy was that?)
SYKES
Why are you getting in a lather about this?
You appear to be hot and bothered about:
(a) Something that has not affected you (unless you've
applied and been knocked back and have not told us
here); and
(b) something that you are hearing second and third hand
from "a good mate of mine" and "a mate I met in W.A who
told me about a mate of his"
GET OVER IT!
In any industry, company recruiting can appear odd and unfair to outsiders, especially if they've been rejected.
How do YOU know that the guys with good charter experience didn't have other attributes that Skippers didn't want? (That appeared either in an interview or in their CV).
How do YOU know that the guy with less than 250 hours multi didn't have attributes that they DID want (e.g. 200 hours Chieftain time doing RPT runs?)
Skippers may be as bad as you make out. But do you think that anyone who reads this is going to change their mind about applying to Skippers for work?
My advice:
If you don't like the recruiting process at Skippers, then DON'T APPLY FOR WORK THERE!
(How easy was that?)
SYKES
I applied to several companies on staffcv.com well over 2 years ago. In these past few years, I have regularly updated (every month or 2).
I started off below the minimums, reached the minimums and now got well over the minimums and only 1 call (not Skippers) out of the the 10 or so companies I applied to.
And in the meantime, pilots continue to get hired with "experience below minimums".
Some companies might argue now that I am over qualified, over-experienced, but then why didn't they call me a few years ago before I reached this next level ?
I am happy to conclude that nepotism and cronyism are rife in aviation (and life) however I also have to admit "cronyism" has helped me along the way and I maybe wouldn't be here where I am today.
I started off below the minimums, reached the minimums and now got well over the minimums and only 1 call (not Skippers) out of the the 10 or so companies I applied to.
And in the meantime, pilots continue to get hired with "experience below minimums".
Some companies might argue now that I am over qualified, over-experienced, but then why didn't they call me a few years ago before I reached this next level ?
I am happy to conclude that nepotism and cronyism are rife in aviation (and life) however I also have to admit "cronyism" has helped me along the way and I maybe wouldn't be here where I am today.
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Of course, if any in the anti-nepotism brigade themselves had the chance to "jump the queue" through thier own industry connections, they would. Absolutely no doubt about that. If given the chance, we would also help our mates into a job etc. etc. (I would anyway) Yes, it is frustrating to see others come and go ahead of us due to thier connections and not thier experience, but, as one of you alluded to, get over it, it will not change.
Any pilot with a pinch of aptitude, and a good attitude, will always succeed, it's a matter of time only.
As for keeping a book of people who either practise, or have benefited from nepotism, to later use against them...what kind of disturbed person would do that? I would never want to work or associate with a person who spitefully notes down names in a hate book for future action. Isn't that the plot of many psycotic movies? I hope this is not a common practise, what do others think?
Any pilot with a pinch of aptitude, and a good attitude, will always succeed, it's a matter of time only.
As for keeping a book of people who either practise, or have benefited from nepotism, to later use against them...what kind of disturbed person would do that? I would never want to work or associate with a person who spitefully notes down names in a hate book for future action. Isn't that the plot of many psycotic movies? I hope this is not a common practise, what do others think?
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Applehead,
It's a figure of speech, I don't expect that anyone will actually do this. All it implies is - remember how people have treated you, and look after those who treat you well.
Nothing more, nothing less. No insults or psychotic actions intended.
Little Black Book
Nothing more, nothing less. No insults or psychotic actions intended.
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This whole subject now makes me laugh.....a few years ago I would have got a bit peeved about it all..now I laugh. As a Kiwi bloke who had tried to get a foot in the door in Oz...the kind of comments..rude...racist..and the nepotism directed towards me from the locals absolutely staggered me, and yet after plugging away I got offered a job with a (well known) company..after they had turned me away after a number of applications. How sweet it was to tell this one particular so & so to stick their job...as i was offered twice the money somewhere (on another continent)else on better equipment....Nepo..my advice is to laugh stick with it......and you'll get there.
Nepo Tism,
That person maybe a QF cadet on industry placement, QF has arrangement with operators all over the country for cadet placements. Some offer incentives like a type rated crew member on say something like a Dash 8 etc and may also in exchange allow the company to gain access to their sim facility for the aircraft.
My understanding is that the cadets pay approx 10k for their endorsement be it on a Dash, J32, EMB120 etc and get the standard f/o pay for the company they are in, if and only if QF has a slot for them a couple of years down the track they maybe offered a mainline seat.
Its a competitive world, you would be better placed learning how to improve yourself, and aim higher than skippers. Initial pickings with them are not fantastic as a metro f/o, dont think of it as the next natural step, aim higher for Rex, EAA, Sunnies, Air North, Sky West where you will be full time pay from day one.
BTW if I had a choice of full time MEIFR piston and casual f/o metro (where you pay circa of 7k for an endorsement) I would hang on to the MEIFR and get yourself a full time turbine position.
That person maybe a QF cadet on industry placement, QF has arrangement with operators all over the country for cadet placements. Some offer incentives like a type rated crew member on say something like a Dash 8 etc and may also in exchange allow the company to gain access to their sim facility for the aircraft.
My understanding is that the cadets pay approx 10k for their endorsement be it on a Dash, J32, EMB120 etc and get the standard f/o pay for the company they are in, if and only if QF has a slot for them a couple of years down the track they maybe offered a mainline seat.
Its a competitive world, you would be better placed learning how to improve yourself, and aim higher than skippers. Initial pickings with them are not fantastic as a metro f/o, dont think of it as the next natural step, aim higher for Rex, EAA, Sunnies, Air North, Sky West where you will be full time pay from day one.
BTW if I had a choice of full time MEIFR piston and casual f/o metro (where you pay circa of 7k for an endorsement) I would hang on to the MEIFR and get yourself a full time turbine position.
That's The Way It Is
A lot of flying jobs in Australia work's on the who you know principle, including Qantas. If your dad etc work in Qantas as a pilot you can jump the queue if connected.
To the companies doing the right thing, I salute you.
To the companies doing the right thing, I salute you.
