DOTARS security w@nkers!
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DOTARS security w@nkers!
Here is the text of a message I have sent to DOTARS in reply to their letter informing me that as of next year I have to improve the security of my ancient Cessna:
I see from the latest Australian Aviation that AOPA has bent over, pulled down its trousers and said "Have a go" on this issue. Nice one AOPA - confirms why I never joined.
What's next? No-fly zones for non-commercial aircraft? It's this sort of rubbish, and things on the horizon like ADS-B, that have the potential to do enormous damage to general aviation.
Believe me, the thinking in certain quarters at the moment is toward the creation of "Mandatory ADS-B Zones". Where I can fly at the moment with just a perfectly good serviceable radio, I may in the future need ADS-B. Tricky in a Thruster or Drifter. Even if the equipment is paid for, there's still the cost of installation (Reg 35 approval) and maintenance to come out of my pocket.
If we're not careful we in the non-commercial side of aviation are going to find ourselves locked out of more airspace than Dick Smith could ever imagine.
Gentlemen,
I have received your instruction concerning new anti-theft requirements for General Aviation aircraft and I am writing to let you know what a bunch of wankers you are in DOTARS.
In the unlikely event of a terrorist attack in Australia a van or truck, or for that matter car, is infinitely more likely to be used as the delivery vehicle than my old Cessna. So when are you going to require car, van and truck owners to take additional measures to secure their vehicles since “standard door locks are not considered adequate”, especially since the number of motor vehicles stolen each year with apparent ease is enormous compared with the number of stolen aircraft?
There is absolutely no evidentiary basis whatsoever for these ridiculous measures. By imposing them you are both giving in to terrorism and showing yourselves up for fools.
Yours sincerely,
Philthy
I have received your instruction concerning new anti-theft requirements for General Aviation aircraft and I am writing to let you know what a bunch of wankers you are in DOTARS.
In the unlikely event of a terrorist attack in Australia a van or truck, or for that matter car, is infinitely more likely to be used as the delivery vehicle than my old Cessna. So when are you going to require car, van and truck owners to take additional measures to secure their vehicles since “standard door locks are not considered adequate”, especially since the number of motor vehicles stolen each year with apparent ease is enormous compared with the number of stolen aircraft?
There is absolutely no evidentiary basis whatsoever for these ridiculous measures. By imposing them you are both giving in to terrorism and showing yourselves up for fools.
Yours sincerely,
Philthy
What's next? No-fly zones for non-commercial aircraft? It's this sort of rubbish, and things on the horizon like ADS-B, that have the potential to do enormous damage to general aviation.
Believe me, the thinking in certain quarters at the moment is toward the creation of "Mandatory ADS-B Zones". Where I can fly at the moment with just a perfectly good serviceable radio, I may in the future need ADS-B. Tricky in a Thruster or Drifter. Even if the equipment is paid for, there's still the cost of installation (Reg 35 approval) and maintenance to come out of my pocket.
If we're not careful we in the non-commercial side of aviation are going to find ourselves locked out of more airspace than Dick Smith could ever imagine.
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Philthy
Firstly - anyone resorting to name calling
has already lost the argument, so you have now made a mute point. Congratulations.
Secondly - DOTARS is full of pulic servants whos job it is to deliver governemnt policy. ie they do not make policy, so your letter should have gone to the relevant minister.
My understanding is that all you (and any aircraft owner <5700kg non jet) have to do is demonstate that your aircraft cannot be easily stolen, so go and spend $50 on new locks.
I have had to deal with this new security stuff lately. Yes, part of it is over the top (like regulating Boulia "international" airport) , but a lot of it is common sense, which your gripe seems to be. I suggest you get a life around the same time you pick up your new locks.
Cya
Firstly - anyone resorting to name calling
I am writing to let you know what a bunch of wankers you are in DOTARS.
Secondly - DOTARS is full of pulic servants whos job it is to deliver governemnt policy. ie they do not make policy, so your letter should have gone to the relevant minister.
My understanding is that all you (and any aircraft owner <5700kg non jet) have to do is demonstate that your aircraft cannot be easily stolen, so go and spend $50 on new locks.
I have had to deal with this new security stuff lately. Yes, part of it is over the top (like regulating Boulia "international" airport) , but a lot of it is common sense, which your gripe seems to be. I suggest you get a life around the same time you pick up your new locks.
Cya
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Thanks for the advice, applehead.
You're right, I should and will write to the Minister. However, it may surprise you to learn that Ministers take advice from their bureacrats when they make decisions like this. That's part of what their Departments are there for.
Furthemore, the security of my aircraft has always been perfectly satisfactory, thanks very much. It's older than I am and it hasn't been stolen yet. I don't need to spend anything on more locks, which I then have to cart around with me wherever I go.
And thanks, I have a life. What I don't require is it being needlessly interfered with by a bunch of pencil-pushers operating out of an ivory tower.
You're right, I should and will write to the Minister. However, it may surprise you to learn that Ministers take advice from their bureacrats when they make decisions like this. That's part of what their Departments are there for.
Furthemore, the security of my aircraft has always been perfectly satisfactory, thanks very much. It's older than I am and it hasn't been stolen yet. I don't need to spend anything on more locks, which I then have to cart around with me wherever I go.
And thanks, I have a life. What I don't require is it being needlessly interfered with by a bunch of pencil-pushers operating out of an ivory tower.
USA
applehead: it's "a moot point" not a "mute point".
I don't see the benefit in upgrading locks on small aeroplanes. Even here in paranoid USA they don't require it. Probably because the industry is heaps bigger and a lot more professionally represented - so the electoral consequences are probably larger.
I don't see the benefit in upgrading locks on small aeroplanes. Even here in paranoid USA they don't require it. Probably because the industry is heaps bigger and a lot more professionally represented - so the electoral consequences are probably larger.
Philthy,
IMHO ADS-B should be compulsory for all aircraft where VHF is required to be carried.
The kit allows other people to know where you are in the event of your radio failing, you being on the incorrect frequency, you being lost, you giving an incorrect position in a radio broadcast etc. I believe the Commonwealth has a duty of care to advise other users of its Airspace in such events, it would also reduce radio clutter.
As for cost...I saw at one stage ASA were looking at installing it at their expense in all aircraft in Australia as retrofitting every aircraft would have been cheaper than the planned radar upgrade.
I also believe the Commonwealth Air Navigation Act is sufficiently broad to charge all aircraft for use of the Commonwealths’ Airspace and facilities. IMHO that will happen sooner rather than later.
IMHO ADS-B should be compulsory for all aircraft where VHF is required to be carried.
The kit allows other people to know where you are in the event of your radio failing, you being on the incorrect frequency, you being lost, you giving an incorrect position in a radio broadcast etc. I believe the Commonwealth has a duty of care to advise other users of its Airspace in such events, it would also reduce radio clutter.
As for cost...I saw at one stage ASA were looking at installing it at their expense in all aircraft in Australia as retrofitting every aircraft would have been cheaper than the planned radar upgrade.
I also believe the Commonwealth Air Navigation Act is sufficiently broad to charge all aircraft for use of the Commonwealths’ Airspace and facilities. IMHO that will happen sooner rather than later.
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Whilst they're busting everyone's balls, maybe they should take some time out and get some fences and security installed at some regional airports.
That's a joke.
obviously, regional passenger and crews aren't worth much.
Still, as long as they look like they are doing something
That's a joke.
obviously, regional passenger and crews aren't worth much.
Still, as long as they look like they are doing something
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My old boss used to say that "locks only keep out honest crooks" .... ie fitting a lock is useless, as,anyone who REALLY wanted to get in, would! And, not only get in, but also stuuf the door and cause much more damage than if it were unlocked anyway.
Let's face it.... 9/11 wasn't caused by cessnas/beech's/pipers etc ... it was something bigger... with catering!
gotta LOVE these kneejerk reactions.... 3 years later!
Let's face it.... 9/11 wasn't caused by cessnas/beech's/pipers etc ... it was something bigger... with catering!
gotta LOVE these kneejerk reactions.... 3 years later!
What about all those GA types who's doors have external hinge pins? You could have a lock borrowed from Fort Knox and it would still be useless.
Hmmm....the Cessna Aerobat even makes it easy to ignore the lock - it has hinge pin removal cables to use as a convenient hand hold....
Hmmm....the Cessna Aerobat even makes it easy to ignore the lock - it has hinge pin removal cables to use as a convenient hand hold....
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What Philthy has stated is just the tip of the ice berg,
For example, picture this:
two Cessna 310's side by side, one is Class A and the other Class B maintained.
The Class A Cessna is used on a RPT service one day per week and charter the rest of the week, in and out of, lets say alice springs to service cattle stations and aboriginal communities.
The company that operates the RPT aicraft is to be required to have a company security officer ( ie a nominated company pilot ) and a " Security Management Plan ", even though they operate from a secure airport and is the exact same aircraft type.
In addition there has been no consultation of effected partys, ie the operators.
I seriously doubt locking/chaining an aircraft will even stop a pissed idiot on a dare.
For example, picture this:
two Cessna 310's side by side, one is Class A and the other Class B maintained.
The Class A Cessna is used on a RPT service one day per week and charter the rest of the week, in and out of, lets say alice springs to service cattle stations and aboriginal communities.
The company that operates the RPT aicraft is to be required to have a company security officer ( ie a nominated company pilot ) and a " Security Management Plan ", even though they operate from a secure airport and is the exact same aircraft type.
In addition there has been no consultation of effected partys, ie the operators.
I seriously doubt locking/chaining an aircraft will even stop a pissed idiot on a dare.
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Dreamers
So if ADSB is going to be so good how much do you blokes rekon it's going to cost? My guess is no cheaper than $12000 fitted, you think the Government will cover costs? if you do can I interest you in buying a Bridge?
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Super Cecil
I attended a short briefing on ADSB earlier in the year.
The price is expected to be much less than the price you've indicated, also - as it will save a sh*t load on all those radars that will need upgrading over the next 5-10 years, introducing ADSB and phasing out radar in most of the country will be the way to go.
Anyway - that's how I understood it...
I attended a short briefing on ADSB earlier in the year.
The price is expected to be much less than the price you've indicated, also - as it will save a sh*t load on all those radars that will need upgrading over the next 5-10 years, introducing ADSB and phasing out radar in most of the country will be the way to go.
Anyway - that's how I understood it...
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CASA=Great blokes
That sounds great, I always thought those CASA blokes and Lil Johnny Anderson would look after us, now about that bridge it's rooly big and has these pylon things at either end.
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For Sunfish
http://www.aopa.com.au/documents/GAAntiTheft.pdf
Seeing you've got a lot of good ideas you should design and manufacture your $30 anti theft devices and sell them to the owners of our 252 makes of aircraft in Oz. Think of the money you'll make with the competition selling their products for over $100 usd+!
After all, leaving my locked aircraft, out in a paddock, unattended near Hopetoun, Vic might come under threat from terrorists linked to 9/11 and you and others might be in danger.
Colt
http://www.aopa.com.au/documents/GAAntiTheft.pdf
Seeing you've got a lot of good ideas you should design and manufacture your $30 anti theft devices and sell them to the owners of our 252 makes of aircraft in Oz. Think of the money you'll make with the competition selling their products for over $100 usd+!
After all, leaving my locked aircraft, out in a paddock, unattended near Hopetoun, Vic might come under threat from terrorists linked to 9/11 and you and others might be in danger.
Colt
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It's also illegal to speed in a car, but we all still do it.
How will DOTARS police this? Especially considering that they can't just walk freely around the tarmac at GAAP's.
They will have to budget on policing this and i'm sure they have better things to spend money on, like christmas parties etc. As do police have better things to do. It's kind of like the old water restriction police/ department officer....one patrol...one street per day.
If you don't comply they will have to take you to court, big hedache for them.
My two cents. U2
How will DOTARS police this? Especially considering that they can't just walk freely around the tarmac at GAAP's.
They will have to budget on policing this and i'm sure they have better things to spend money on, like christmas parties etc. As do police have better things to do. It's kind of like the old water restriction police/ department officer....one patrol...one street per day.
If you don't comply they will have to take you to court, big hedache for them.
My two cents. U2
Colt, thanks for the link.
"Visible deterrent to theft"
Wheel lock, lockable control lock or padlock and chain.
Yup, I can make something for $30 that will do that, but of course I'll chrome it and sell it to you, mate, for USD$100 if it makes you feel better.
This whole issue looks like a storm in a Tea Cup.
BTW what about lockable fuel caps and drains
"Visible deterrent to theft"
Wheel lock, lockable control lock or padlock and chain.
Yup, I can make something for $30 that will do that, but of course I'll chrome it and sell it to you, mate, for USD$100 if it makes you feel better.
This whole issue looks like a storm in a Tea Cup.
BTW what about lockable fuel caps and drains
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Folks
If you get a chance, have a look at the article in Flight International (21 Dec - 4 Jan) at the top of Page 21, entitled "Industry welcomes security review".
"The US general aviation community is breathing a collective sigh of relief following the release of the long-awaited Government Accountability Office report on general aviation security.
In its study, which was commisioned last year by the US Congress to assess the vulnerability of GA aircraft and airports to potential terrorist activity, the GAO acknowledges "the small size, lack of fuel capacity and minimal destructive power of most general aviation aircraft make them unattractive to terrorists and thereby, reduces the possibility of threat associated with their misuse...........etc etc"
Maybe the GAO read this thread? Perhaps Philthy could add the article as a pp to his DOTARS letter!!
If you get a chance, have a look at the article in Flight International (21 Dec - 4 Jan) at the top of Page 21, entitled "Industry welcomes security review".
"The US general aviation community is breathing a collective sigh of relief following the release of the long-awaited Government Accountability Office report on general aviation security.
In its study, which was commisioned last year by the US Congress to assess the vulnerability of GA aircraft and airports to potential terrorist activity, the GAO acknowledges "the small size, lack of fuel capacity and minimal destructive power of most general aviation aircraft make them unattractive to terrorists and thereby, reduces the possibility of threat associated with their misuse...........etc etc"
Maybe the GAO read this thread? Perhaps Philthy could add the article as a pp to his DOTARS letter!!
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1. But there WAS a mini 911 in Florida, when the young man flew the C172 into a building, so it can be done. He managed to kill himself and burn out one room. And since he was a student pilot with access to however many keys were needed to get the airplane into the air, this security garbage would have not had any effect on the outcome.
2.. Most people who break into light airplanes do so to get the radios, hand-held GPS etc and door locks only mean an extra bill for repairs.
3. What about the damage the $30 "club" will do when you have a landing incident or abandoned takeoff? Will the government mandate secure storage for these items when not actually being used to lock the flight controls?
4. If you fly in the US and you are female, expect to be groped. Wait; they have changed that as a result of being too aggressive and stirred up too many complaints, so now if you are female and want to carry something on board, put it in your bra since the screeners will take special care not to actually touch you there.
5. etc.
2.. Most people who break into light airplanes do so to get the radios, hand-held GPS etc and door locks only mean an extra bill for repairs.
3. What about the damage the $30 "club" will do when you have a landing incident or abandoned takeoff? Will the government mandate secure storage for these items when not actually being used to lock the flight controls?
4. If you fly in the US and you are female, expect to be groped. Wait; they have changed that as a result of being too aggressive and stirred up too many complaints, so now if you are female and want to carry something on board, put it in your bra since the screeners will take special care not to actually touch you there.
5. etc.
