CVR Erasure policy
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CVR Erasure policy
Chatting over coffee the other day with colleague who flies for Virgin Blue. He loves the job and wouldn't change it for the world.
He mentioned that some of the pilots he crews with make a deliberate point of erasing the CVR tape after shut-down, even during 30 minute turn-arounds as well as last flight on that particular aircraft.
Is that a company or trade union directive - and if so why would you worry about erasing a tape unless there is something on it you don't want recorded? Is it legal to erase the tape?
He mentioned that some of the pilots he crews with make a deliberate point of erasing the CVR tape after shut-down, even during 30 minute turn-arounds as well as last flight on that particular aircraft.
Is that a company or trade union directive - and if so why would you worry about erasing a tape unless there is something on it you don't want recorded? Is it legal to erase the tape?
There's probably all sorts of stuff that a crew talks about that they'd really rather not have other people listen to. From slagging off their company to inappropriate comments about the hosties, who knows?
dunno about paranoia...big brother (aka the NZ Police) in all their wisdom used it to build a case against a Dash 8 Captain after a crash in Palmie a few years ago...a world first apparently.
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Apart from it being "highly illegal", and enforceable by the ATSB, it is also irresponsible of the flight crew to erase the CVR. If there is an accident or incident, investigators need all the information they can get (including the previous minutes now possibly erased) to find the root cause of the accident.
We all scream "Turn your plurry transponder on for our safety", but then some of the same folks are erasing a very important part of accident investigation.
Bad sign in my books.
TBT
We all scream "Turn your plurry transponder on for our safety", but then some of the same folks are erasing a very important part of accident investigation.
Bad sign in my books.
TBT
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Can't say I've heard of it in these parts.
Maybe something to get put in your next contract round.
No reading of the CVR without "Proper" auth or whatever, words to that effect...
Maybe something to get put in your next contract round.
No reading of the CVR without "Proper" auth or whatever, words to that effect...
Time Bomb Ted,
Now that the ATSB can be forced to release the CVR by a court if the public interest outweighs the crewmembers (unlike to the old days) so they can have their arses sued off, why do you reckon people are erasing the CVRs? Before I hit the ground, that's exactly what I'll be doing. The lawyers and bureaucrats can get stuffed.
The AirNZ Dash 8 accident showed what will happen these days.
Now that the ATSB can be forced to release the CVR by a court if the public interest outweighs the crewmembers (unlike to the old days) so they can have their arses sued off, why do you reckon people are erasing the CVRs? Before I hit the ground, that's exactly what I'll be doing. The lawyers and bureaucrats can get stuffed.
The AirNZ Dash 8 accident showed what will happen these days.
Sprucegoose
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I cannot believe I am hearing this!
Most modern CVR's hold at least 24 hours of information, some even longer. Should an incident/accident occur, this information could be invaluable. Maybe a noise heard 3 or 4 sectors earlier might hold the key to unlocking the mystery.
Who cares if you made some comment about what you'd like to do with the HEAD flight attendant or how BAD the company is to work for...
I have also heard of people pulling the circuit breaker!!
Of course the trick is, if you dont want it heard, dont say it!!
Cheers, HH.
Most modern CVR's hold at least 24 hours of information, some even longer. Should an incident/accident occur, this information could be invaluable. Maybe a noise heard 3 or 4 sectors earlier might hold the key to unlocking the mystery.
Who cares if you made some comment about what you'd like to do with the HEAD flight attendant or how BAD the company is to work for...
I have also heard of people pulling the circuit breaker!!
Of course the trick is, if you dont want it heard, dont say it!!
Cheers, HH.
Howard Hughes
The point is the lawyers can use the info from the CVR to sue me if I survive or my family if I don’t. The whole idea of CVR and FDR’s as an accident investigation tool and hence an education tool has been hijacked by the scum lawyer who overpopulate this earth and governments pandering to the minority. Until I am protected under law, I’m sorry, my family’s welfare and I come first. Maybe it is the governments around the world and Lawyers that you should be venting your anger at, as they are the problem, not us drivers who by the way under international convention should be protected.
The point is the lawyers can use the info from the CVR to sue me if I survive or my family if I don’t. The whole idea of CVR and FDR’s as an accident investigation tool and hence an education tool has been hijacked by the scum lawyer who overpopulate this earth and governments pandering to the minority. Until I am protected under law, I’m sorry, my family’s welfare and I come first. Maybe it is the governments around the world and Lawyers that you should be venting your anger at, as they are the problem, not us drivers who by the way under international convention should be protected.
Yes, unfortunately you have to look after yourself these days. The problem with the CVR (or FDR which you can't erase) after an incident is it can either make you the hero or the villian .
Do I erase or not? Tough one!
Do I erase or not? Tough one!
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Hahahahahaaaaaaa!!! Morons!!!
24hrs....!!! WTF are you talking about????
... 
..... 
..... 
The 737 CVR holds the last 30 minutes of conversation. And if you've just landed and are STILL capable of lifting an un-bloodied hand and pressing the "erase" button, then I think it's pretty obvious they don't need the information!!!
No one's going to come out during your 30 minute turn-around and dig through the guts of the jet to pull out the CVR just to hear what you had to say about the HEAD hostie's head (and who says that comment is not appropriate??? It's probably true...) or brown-nosing the boss. This is not a QAR we are talking about.
30 minutes guys, then it tapes over it all over again. You can relax now. No one cares what you said the day before the crash...
They've already thought of this and out-smarted the dumb-arse pilots. It's called a QAR and actions speak louder than words. Why do you think you even have the capability to erase the tape? If you've landed safely they probably don't care what you said. And if they do, erasure of the tape does not mean the info is permanently lost. Sorry to disappoint you married guys....
24hrs....!!! WTF are you talking about????
... ..... ..... The 737 CVR holds the last 30 minutes of conversation. And if you've just landed and are STILL capable of lifting an un-bloodied hand and pressing the "erase" button, then I think it's pretty obvious they don't need the information!!!
No one's going to come out during your 30 minute turn-around and dig through the guts of the jet to pull out the CVR just to hear what you had to say about the HEAD hostie's head (and who says that comment is not appropriate??? It's probably true...) or brown-nosing the boss. This is not a QAR we are talking about.
30 minutes guys, then it tapes over it all over again. You can relax now.
No one cares what you said the day before the crash... They've already thought of this and out-smarted the dumb-arse pilots. It's called a QAR and actions speak louder than words. Why do you think you even have the capability to erase the tape? If you've landed safely they probably don't care what you said. And if they do, erasure of the tape does not mean the info is permanently lost. Sorry to disappoint you married guys....
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For once in her petty, boring, long life, the Old Slag is almost correct:
Cockpit Voice Recorder
Time recorded..........30 min continuous, 2 hours for solid state digital units
Number of channels.....4
Impact tolerance........3400Gs / 6.5 ms
Fire resistance...........1100 degC / 30 min
Water pressure resistance submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation
Cockpit Voice Recorder
Time recorded..........30 min continuous, 2 hours for solid state digital units
Number of channels.....4
Impact tolerance........3400Gs / 6.5 ms
Fire resistance...........1100 degC / 30 min
Water pressure resistance submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation
, I reckin I used to be able to get the bedsprings up to those sort of G wunce 
Sprucegoose
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Maybe it is the governments around the world and Lawyers that you should be venting your anger at,
Cheers, HH.
Moderator
Gaunty .. I have this incredibly dreadful vision in my mind .....
Keep in mind that some might also dub the CVR to a QAR .. don't know of any who do .. but have been involved in discussions on the very subject .....
Keep in mind that some might also dub the CVR to a QAR .. don't know of any who do .. but have been involved in discussions on the very subject .....
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Time Bomb Ted -- ILLEGAL ?? where'd you get that from - it maybe I don't know.
But I remember back "pre war days" that it was recommended by the AFAP that you erased the CVR at the end of a tour of duty - PROVIDED you walked away from the last landing.
This was brought about by Zealots in the Co. (AN) listening to the CVR reporting on it and the "actors" being invited to "tea and bickkies" to explain why they were slagging off or whatever at the time.
But I remember back "pre war days" that it was recommended by the AFAP that you erased the CVR at the end of a tour of duty - PROVIDED you walked away from the last landing.
This was brought about by Zealots in the Co. (AN) listening to the CVR reporting on it and the "actors" being invited to "tea and bickkies" to explain why they were slagging off or whatever at the time.
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listening to the CVR reporting on it and the "actors" being invited to "tea and bickkies" to explain why they were slagging off or whatever at the time
My professional advice is pull the CB. That's what it's there for.
Hang a pair of fuzzy dice from it to remind you to push it back in later.
If it won't stay in, say it popped when you switched the busses over.
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Time Bomb,
Would you be able to quote a reference for the erasure of the CVR being illegal.
Why is the erase button on the control panel for the CVR in the cockpit if it is illegal to use it??
I personally erase it everytime I get out of the machine for the last time for that day.
It is really of no interest to anyone else what the Capt. and I were cr@pping on about whilst taxying in, should the next crew spear in on take off
The button must be there for some reason.
Cheers,
I'm gone!
Would you be able to quote a reference for the erasure of the CVR being illegal.
Why is the erase button on the control panel for the CVR in the cockpit if it is illegal to use it??
I personally erase it everytime I get out of the machine for the last time for that day.
It is really of no interest to anyone else what the Capt. and I were cr@pping on about whilst taxying in, should the next crew spear in on take off
The button must be there for some reason.
Cheers,
I'm gone!
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I don't think you're listening. You don't NEED to erase it as it is taped over immediately.
And if it were illegal someone would've told you by now not to use the button above your head.
And if it were illegal someone would've told you by now not to use the button above your head.