CVR Erasure policy
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: By the Bay
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A reply just to confirm that I am not a moron.
I know that it is taped over. The batteries must remain ON for the CVR to operate. If they are left ON for 30 mins, then yes indeed the previous crews banter will have been taped over before the next unfortunates end up in the HIALS in a smoking mess!
Call me paranoid, but I hit the button before I leave out of habit now.
Cheers,
I'm gone!
I know that it is taped over. The batteries must remain ON for the CVR to operate. If they are left ON for 30 mins, then yes indeed the previous crews banter will have been taped over before the next unfortunates end up in the HIALS in a smoking mess!
Call me paranoid, but I hit the button before I leave out of habit now.
Cheers,
I'm gone!
BrownHolerPoler
The equipment I fly has a 2 hour solid state CVR and a QAR. It takes a ground engineer 30 seconds to remove the tape from the QAR. It takes me 2 seconds to erase it. The 2 hour CVR is on a continuous recording cycle and erases only that that was recorded two hours earlier.
The equipment I fly has a 2 hour solid state CVR and a QAR. It takes a ground engineer 30 seconds to remove the tape from the QAR. It takes me 2 seconds to erase it. The 2 hour CVR is on a continuous recording cycle and erases only that that was recorded two hours earlier.
A few points
First, if you think that pulling the CVR circuit breaker necessarily disconnects power to the CVR, check with your friendly AME and ask her to walk you through the circuit diagram. In any event, the FDR (if there is one) usually records whether and if so when CVR power is disconnected.
Secondly, if you think pushing the CVR erase button necessarily erases the CVR recording, check with your friendly AME and ask her to walk you through the circuit diagram. In any event, the FDR (if there is one) usually records whether and if so when the CVR erase button is activated.
Thirdly, be careful about the circumstances in which you erase. Section 24 of the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003 says:
[bolding added]
First, if you think that pulling the CVR circuit breaker necessarily disconnects power to the CVR, check with your friendly AME and ask her to walk you through the circuit diagram. In any event, the FDR (if there is one) usually records whether and if so when CVR power is disconnected.
Secondly, if you think pushing the CVR erase button necessarily erases the CVR recording, check with your friendly AME and ask her to walk you through the circuit diagram. In any event, the FDR (if there is one) usually records whether and if so when the CVR erase button is activated.
Thirdly, be careful about the circumstances in which you erase. Section 24 of the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003 says:
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person engages in conduct; and
(b) the person is reckless as to whether the conduct will adversely affect an investigation:
(i) that is being conducted at that time; or
(ii) that could be conducted at a later time into an immediately reportable matter; and
(c) the conduct has the result of adversely affecting such an investigation (whether or not the investigation had commenced at the time of the conduct); and
(d) the conduct is not authorised by the Executive Director.
(a) the person engages in conduct; and
(b) the person is reckless as to whether the conduct will adversely affect an investigation:
(i) that is being conducted at that time; or
(ii) that could be conducted at a later time into an immediately reportable matter; and
(c) the conduct has the result of adversely affecting such an investigation (whether or not the investigation had commenced at the time of the conduct); and
(d) the conduct is not authorised by the Executive Director.
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trad magnetic CVR tapes: Last time I researched this was several years ago.
At the time the record for lab reconstruction of spoken words and 'witness' sounds was 13 layers into the tape. i.e 6.5 hours before the tape was pulled. I can only guess what affordable digital signal processing has done to the quality in the years since.
If this seems baffling at first you suffer it at home with old audio cassettes (8 tracks for the Woomeras
) and video tapes. Your Oz tV heritage is also suffering from 'print through.'
If it interests you enough the key to these two similar effects is 'domain theory and I'm sure google will amply reward the brave.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
At the time the record for lab reconstruction of spoken words and 'witness' sounds was 13 layers into the tape. i.e 6.5 hours before the tape was pulled. I can only guess what affordable digital signal processing has done to the quality in the years since.
If this seems baffling at first you suffer it at home with old audio cassettes (8 tracks for the Woomeras
) and video tapes. Your Oz tV heritage is also suffering from 'print through.'If it interests you enough the key to these two similar effects is 'domain theory and I'm sure google will amply reward the brave.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Boring Point
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aren't we lucky that we have the Master of Lavs and Dunnies to aquaint us mere uneducated Colonials to the big wide world of commercial aviation?
Strewth!!...no wonder the POMS are a joke!
How many medals did they win at Athens?
How long since they won a cricket match?
Name a half decent airplane the "English" made?
Oops!...forgot about the 146 didn't I?
Strewth!!...no wonder the POMS are a joke!
How many medals did they win at Athens?
How long since they won a cricket match?
Name a half decent airplane the "English" made?
Oops!...forgot about the 146 didn't I?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: posts: 666
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He tried hard top ignore the fact I already mentioned it.. used a few big words, etc.
Oh well.... gotta be quick.
What about the Spit, Hurricane and Mossie?
Okay okay, nothing worthwhile since then that didn't blow windows everywhere.....
Oh well.... gotta be quick.
What about the Spit, Hurricane and Mossie?
Okay okay, nothing worthwhile since then that didn't blow windows everywhere.....
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't blame them for erasing it. Here Here I say. If you've landed and HAVEN'T had an accident they don't need the 30 mins previous.
People did warm the government before they introduced the law.
People did warm the government before they introduced the law.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: act
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My company had an incident several years ago whe the tape was pulled and analysed by BASI. Crew were scared stiff because they had been bagging the heirachy.
Transcript came back" Blah blah" etc, and then the section where the bagging occurred was "unitelligible".
Well done, looking after the boys (and girls of course)!
Transcript came back" Blah blah" etc, and then the section where the bagging occurred was "unitelligible".
Well done, looking after the boys (and girls of course)!
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard a story recently about a Brisbane based operator. Apparently one of the aircraft that does night freight had been heavy landed and the 'safety manager' (said very much so tongue in cheek) of the operation had the CVR/FDR tape pulled and sent off to somewhere to be examined. Casa apparently got wind of it and tore the 'safety manager' (said very much so tongue in cheek) a new spot out of which to excrete. Would suggest that CASA have to authorise the removal of such equipment for examination. Go figure.
Onya
Onya
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Think of a happy place. Think of a happy place. Think of a happy place
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Creampuff.
I understand from a very well placed source in ATSB, that they are actually taking a pilot to court for tampering with the CVR.
Be Warned Folks. It is a very serious matter. Anyway if you pull the Circuit Breaker, and the CVR is on the MEL then "You ain't goin' no where baby." If you do and CASA finds out, then I have no sympathy for you.
You need a better solicitor than the DPP brief to fight for you if you end up on the wrong side of it all.
TBT
I understand from a very well placed source in ATSB, that they are actually taking a pilot to court for tampering with the CVR.
Be Warned Folks. It is a very serious matter. Anyway if you pull the Circuit Breaker, and the CVR is on the MEL then "You ain't goin' no where baby." If you do and CASA finds out, then I have no sympathy for you.
You need a better solicitor than the DPP brief to fight for you if you end up on the wrong side of it all.
TBT
Pulling the CB for the CVR is different to erasing the CVR after a flight has been successfully completed.
That said I couldn't be bothered - but then I don't give a toss what the bosses think of what I say in a conversation with another pilot.
That said I couldn't be bothered - but then I don't give a toss what the bosses think of what I say in a conversation with another pilot.
