Jump pilot tips
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane
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get this. a mate of mine has just relocated to another state. given false information about the jump a/c by the owner. gets there, and VSI U/S, flap indicator U/S, fuel gauge U/S, oil guages shonky U/S. the owner has only got a ppl(no offence to any ppl, my father has held one for many, many years), yet he knows everything of course. the first check flight, mate asks wat alt would u like to level off at, gets to toc then the owner turns the xpndr to off and continues to climb. bl00dy nuts. now he wants my mate to do night ops in an a/c that isnt even servicable by day.
granted there some great operators out there. but this owner knows wat hes doing. if the sh@t hits the fan, the old PIC takes the blame.
moral of the story(true story, only happen less than two days ago), never let anyone tell u wat to do , your in command. plus youve paid or your parents have paid a cr@p load for your liscence and youve studied your proverbial backside off to get this far, you dont need some obnoxious money hungry person telling u wat to do.
cheers cheers
granted there some great operators out there. but this owner knows wat hes doing. if the sh@t hits the fan, the old PIC takes the blame.
moral of the story(true story, only happen less than two days ago), never let anyone tell u wat to do , your in command. plus youve paid or your parents have paid a cr@p load for your liscence and youve studied your proverbial backside off to get this far, you dont need some obnoxious money hungry person telling u wat to do.
cheers cheers
Join Date: Jul 2002
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That info on getting the winds is good.
I never worried about entering it into the gps though, I just got TAS using the old 2% per 1000ft rule and compared that to the groundspeed.
If there is a lot of wind, ie 15kts on the ground the jumpers appreciate getting an accurate 1000ft wind which helps a lot with their spot, this often requires an early turn into the wind direction, if that is possible then do it, much less chance of an off dz landing.
If the jumpers like to decide the spot themselves, work out what you think it should be in your head first, every now and then they will be way off, and a mention that you thought it might be "deeper and more to the north" for example will either make them re-think it or make you look better when they all land in a paddock!(very satisfying when they turn up for the seconmd load and adjust it to close (never exactly the same) to what you said.
Another interesting thing is that I only ever came across a couple of jumpers who adjust for height when working out the winds, that means that most of them will look at a ground speed of 90kts and an indicated of 90kts at 10,000ft and think that there is no wind when really there is close to 20kts on the nose.
Like the others said it is a great way to get to know the plane before doing other jobs, you can do whatever sort of approaches you like and in one day practice flapless, min dist, crosswind....whatever then try again the next, great fun.
One point though, some operators pay well, they never get a mention tho, I was lucky and got payed very well when I was doing it. Just ask around to find out who pays what.
Have fun. cjam
I never worried about entering it into the gps though, I just got TAS using the old 2% per 1000ft rule and compared that to the groundspeed.
If there is a lot of wind, ie 15kts on the ground the jumpers appreciate getting an accurate 1000ft wind which helps a lot with their spot, this often requires an early turn into the wind direction, if that is possible then do it, much less chance of an off dz landing.
If the jumpers like to decide the spot themselves, work out what you think it should be in your head first, every now and then they will be way off, and a mention that you thought it might be "deeper and more to the north" for example will either make them re-think it or make you look better when they all land in a paddock!(very satisfying when they turn up for the seconmd load and adjust it to close (never exactly the same) to what you said.
Another interesting thing is that I only ever came across a couple of jumpers who adjust for height when working out the winds, that means that most of them will look at a ground speed of 90kts and an indicated of 90kts at 10,000ft and think that there is no wind when really there is close to 20kts on the nose.
Like the others said it is a great way to get to know the plane before doing other jobs, you can do whatever sort of approaches you like and in one day practice flapless, min dist, crosswind....whatever then try again the next, great fun.
One point though, some operators pay well, they never get a mention tho, I was lucky and got payed very well when I was doing it. Just ask around to find out who pays what.
Have fun. cjam
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I carried a knife, bottle of water, and a flat blade small screwdriver. A funny one decided to take the keys one sunny windless day...then i poked the screwdriver into the key hole and bang, engine loved it!!!
The best bit was that since I had plenty of fuel, I went to another strip where I left the plane, and went home, a bit irritated. Left and SMS message saying I was OK, but left it to them to organise the pickup.
That was the last time that sort of bull was pulled on me...and I had a ball flying professional PJE! Might be better just to take a spare key...they can be cut anywhere!
Be responsible and enjoy!
The best bit was that since I had plenty of fuel, I went to another strip where I left the plane, and went home, a bit irritated. Left and SMS message saying I was OK, but left it to them to organise the pickup.
That was the last time that sort of bull was pulled on me...and I had a ball flying professional PJE! Might be better just to take a spare key...they can be cut anywhere!
Be responsible and enjoy!
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Lots of good advice on here.
My own experience (some 20 years ago now) was that parachute aircraft were quite often buckets of ****e mechanically.
Lots of unserviceabilities typically and things like dodgy magnetos (dont worry mate - our other pilot reackons its ok!) made me ground the aircraft and walk away.
My replacement at that place tried to take off one day with less than full power (same dodgy mag) and crashed off the end with 5 meat bombs on board.Minor injuries and bloody lucky.
When will people learn.
My experience with parachute jumpers at that time were that they were brain dead when it came to commons sense and airmanship and didnt give a rats about the aircraft condition, weight and balance or impending last light - as long as they can get their high !!!
Use your brains, dont run out of fuel and dont be afraid to tell them where to go if they want you to do something you dont want to.
Just remember these guys will point the finger at yourself and hang you out to dry if there is an accident.
My own experience (some 20 years ago now) was that parachute aircraft were quite often buckets of ****e mechanically.
Lots of unserviceabilities typically and things like dodgy magnetos (dont worry mate - our other pilot reackons its ok!) made me ground the aircraft and walk away.
My replacement at that place tried to take off one day with less than full power (same dodgy mag) and crashed off the end with 5 meat bombs on board.Minor injuries and bloody lucky.
When will people learn.
My experience with parachute jumpers at that time were that they were brain dead when it came to commons sense and airmanship and didnt give a rats about the aircraft condition, weight and balance or impending last light - as long as they can get their high !!!
Use your brains, dont run out of fuel and dont be afraid to tell them where to go if they want you to do something you dont want to.
Just remember these guys will point the finger at yourself and hang you out to dry if there is an accident.
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Skydivers
Funny old bunch are'nt they??
I've had three hanging off the left strut on the 182......not really funny when youre a low time jump pilot at low speed even if it was at 10 grand. They thought it was funny though.......oh how we laughed..........
I've got over 2000 jumps myself but the moving CofG in the back does make me twitch sometimes.......now I know why some jump pilots are either (a) mad or (b) very snappy!
Seriously though......I think you'll find that a lot has changed from the crazy old days of the 60's and 70's and skydivers know a lot more now about the aircraft, the pilot and the limitations of both.
its a great way for someone to build a lot of hours quickly......but the pay is crap.
happy skydiver driving!
I've had three hanging off the left strut on the 182......not really funny when youre a low time jump pilot at low speed even if it was at 10 grand. They thought it was funny though.......oh how we laughed..........
I've got over 2000 jumps myself but the moving CofG in the back does make me twitch sometimes.......now I know why some jump pilots are either (a) mad or (b) very snappy!
Seriously though......I think you'll find that a lot has changed from the crazy old days of the 60's and 70's and skydivers know a lot more now about the aircraft, the pilot and the limitations of both.
its a great way for someone to build a lot of hours quickly......but the pay is crap.
happy skydiver driving!
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Paul, all good advice on this thread.
I'm not sure what the Australian industry is like, but I can tell you I have had an absolute BLAST with working within the New Zealand Parachute industry.
Some tips;
1/ NEVER get forced into IMC. No matter WHAT! When the cloud is 8/8s overcast, educate the jumpers WHY you can't go through it. They will say they don't care because they are out of the plane and don't have to land, but point out to them that they will have NO more jumping for the rest of day is the plane is in a million pieces.
2/ Never force the jumpers to leave the aircraft if they are not ready over the drop point. Let them make their own informed decision when to jump. Point this out to them and say I won't force you to jump. You will jump when YOU are ready. Let them dirt dive to they are happy. I always said to them before flying, do you guys want a dirt dive first. More often than not... they'd say yes.
3/Consider going for a jump yourself. My employer required that I complete a static line course before employement. I did, five times. I loved it. And it gives you alot of crediability with the skydivers when you say you've jumped. They don't see you as 'just another pilot'.... They see you as someone who sees them for what they are. People out to have fun and push their own limits, safely...
4/ Get to know your meatballs, I mean mates. I got to know the people that jumped out of my plane as mates, not as meatballs. There is a hard core group of people at each dropzone that will keep the zone running. They are a great group of people. They are not crazy. They are just pushing their own limits, without really wanting to push anyone elses.
5/ Check that park brake like crazy. Some guys will want to go out rear float, as in last to leave and will ask you to put the park brake on to prevent them doing a impersonation of a mouse on a wheel. Check like buggerary before you land that the damn thing is OFF!!!!
6/ Take care of that engine of yours! Lean it properly. When descending, leave it lean. Riching too early will force more fuel in to the engine, cooling it quickly. I often landed with a leaned out mixture, only going to full rich if I had to do a go around.
Take about an inch off per minute roughly, depending what aircraft you have. I flew a C206 and descended carefully at full power below 130 knots, VNE door off. Then powered off slowly at about an inch a minute passing 6000 ft to prepare for circuit entry. I used to enter the circuit at about 130 knots, 2000 ft AGL. Then zoom climbed at about 18" to slow down to 90 odd knots to go full flap and full fine. I NEVER did a wingover onto finals, just a straight ahead zoom climbed to loose the speed. I turned base when I was configured and stable at full flap, full fine and ready to land. I modified my circuit to suit, cause I knew I'd be high, but with full flap and full fine, the thing descended nicely if you judged it right, within a normal circuit.
7/ Talk on the radio like a DJ on speed. I was at a unattended aerodrome and used to make every sort of call on the jump run. Everyone knew where I was, how many canopies and where I was descending and what my intentions where to rejoin.
I managed to change the attitude on my dropzone. When I first started, they wanted me to fly in cloud and all sorts of dangerous s#it.
I managed not to only avoid that rule bending activity, BUT I also managed to educate them WHY it was dangerous in the first place and if they lost their jump aircraft, no more jumping for them.
I'm in jets now, but I still count my boss on the dropzone as a good mate, as well as the PEOPLE I dropped out of the plane. They weren't just meatballs to me, but my mates. That just spured me on to keep a close eye out for them and stop them from being a danger to themselves...
Some of them will be ar$eholes, most jumpers you meet will be the nicest people you ever meet, and we as pilots don't give these people enough respect and credit.
Cypher...
I'm not sure what the Australian industry is like, but I can tell you I have had an absolute BLAST with working within the New Zealand Parachute industry.
Some tips;
1/ NEVER get forced into IMC. No matter WHAT! When the cloud is 8/8s overcast, educate the jumpers WHY you can't go through it. They will say they don't care because they are out of the plane and don't have to land, but point out to them that they will have NO more jumping for the rest of day is the plane is in a million pieces.
2/ Never force the jumpers to leave the aircraft if they are not ready over the drop point. Let them make their own informed decision when to jump. Point this out to them and say I won't force you to jump. You will jump when YOU are ready. Let them dirt dive to they are happy. I always said to them before flying, do you guys want a dirt dive first. More often than not... they'd say yes.
3/Consider going for a jump yourself. My employer required that I complete a static line course before employement. I did, five times. I loved it. And it gives you alot of crediability with the skydivers when you say you've jumped. They don't see you as 'just another pilot'.... They see you as someone who sees them for what they are. People out to have fun and push their own limits, safely...
4/ Get to know your meatballs, I mean mates. I got to know the people that jumped out of my plane as mates, not as meatballs. There is a hard core group of people at each dropzone that will keep the zone running. They are a great group of people. They are not crazy. They are just pushing their own limits, without really wanting to push anyone elses.
5/ Check that park brake like crazy. Some guys will want to go out rear float, as in last to leave and will ask you to put the park brake on to prevent them doing a impersonation of a mouse on a wheel. Check like buggerary before you land that the damn thing is OFF!!!!
6/ Take care of that engine of yours! Lean it properly. When descending, leave it lean. Riching too early will force more fuel in to the engine, cooling it quickly. I often landed with a leaned out mixture, only going to full rich if I had to do a go around.
Take about an inch off per minute roughly, depending what aircraft you have. I flew a C206 and descended carefully at full power below 130 knots, VNE door off. Then powered off slowly at about an inch a minute passing 6000 ft to prepare for circuit entry. I used to enter the circuit at about 130 knots, 2000 ft AGL. Then zoom climbed at about 18" to slow down to 90 odd knots to go full flap and full fine. I NEVER did a wingover onto finals, just a straight ahead zoom climbed to loose the speed. I turned base when I was configured and stable at full flap, full fine and ready to land. I modified my circuit to suit, cause I knew I'd be high, but with full flap and full fine, the thing descended nicely if you judged it right, within a normal circuit.
7/ Talk on the radio like a DJ on speed. I was at a unattended aerodrome and used to make every sort of call on the jump run. Everyone knew where I was, how many canopies and where I was descending and what my intentions where to rejoin.
I managed to change the attitude on my dropzone. When I first started, they wanted me to fly in cloud and all sorts of dangerous s#it.
I managed not to only avoid that rule bending activity, BUT I also managed to educate them WHY it was dangerous in the first place and if they lost their jump aircraft, no more jumping for them.
I'm in jets now, but I still count my boss on the dropzone as a good mate, as well as the PEOPLE I dropped out of the plane. They weren't just meatballs to me, but my mates. That just spured me on to keep a close eye out for them and stop them from being a danger to themselves...
Some of them will be ar$eholes, most jumpers you meet will be the nicest people you ever meet, and we as pilots don't give these people enough respect and credit.
Cypher...
Last edited by Cypher; 13th Mar 2005 at 05:59.
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some tips Ive picked up over the years...flown jumpers in C172,182,206,208...and a clapped out PA-31.
Know your A/C..from the point of view of its performance (real world..not book)
Utilize technology...most DZ A/C now have GPS..I invested in a moving map, best move i ever made, was able to set up run-in lines, way points for reference, and also a good get out of jail when you end up inadvertantly IMC...(if you fly jumpers for a while its gonna happen)
Make sure you know what the jump master is after....dont be afraid to ask if your not certain.
Fly conservatively...most skydivers are poor passengers....be smooth, accurate, and considerate.
Dont be scared to say no.....if the weather is iffy..the A/C unservicable...or there is anything else your not happy with...you have to speak.
Do a jump if you're keen..(I did a tandem after losing a bet at the bar....nearly S@%T my pants!)...but if not..try to understand that others enjoy this madness. (I think one day Im gonna have to do another jump....but Im working on my 5 iron for now)
Finally have fun.....I still go Paradropping whenever I can....it can be a hell of a lot of fun.
Cheers
H
Know your A/C..from the point of view of its performance (real world..not book)
Utilize technology...most DZ A/C now have GPS..I invested in a moving map, best move i ever made, was able to set up run-in lines, way points for reference, and also a good get out of jail when you end up inadvertantly IMC...(if you fly jumpers for a while its gonna happen)
Make sure you know what the jump master is after....dont be afraid to ask if your not certain.
Fly conservatively...most skydivers are poor passengers....be smooth, accurate, and considerate.
Dont be scared to say no.....if the weather is iffy..the A/C unservicable...or there is anything else your not happy with...you have to speak.
Do a jump if you're keen..(I did a tandem after losing a bet at the bar....nearly S@%T my pants!)...but if not..try to understand that others enjoy this madness. (I think one day Im gonna have to do another jump....but Im working on my 5 iron for now)
Finally have fun.....I still go Paradropping whenever I can....it can be a hell of a lot of fun.
Cheers
H
?????/
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Don't ever feel obliged to do that "One last load!"
They'll try to talk you into that last load as the sun sits on the horizon..............as was stated earlier.........."If you aint comfortable with it, DON'T DO IT!"
They'll try to talk you into that last load as the sun sits on the horizon..............as was stated earlier.........."If you aint comfortable with it, DON'T DO IT!"
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Yep, I had a mate who started in this line of work. The jumpers pulled the key on him, resulting in a forced landing. He always took an extra set of keys from then on. Don't know if anyone would be stupid enough these days to do it...
