AOPA - 4 Directors resign
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Movingforward ...
Not sure what you are on about. The current board and new President can turn the AOPA Forum site back on at a flick of a switch.
It would be a resonable assumption that there is some reason why the Forum has been left OFF and that this is the fear of comment from the membership? That's my guess anyway.
The sooner it gets going the better.
As a member of AOPA, well not for much longer anyway, I feel a tad in the dark about what is going on. The lack of information from the committee or board or whatever it is, has now become a big part of the problem.
Another question. Some of those who have resigned from the board are candidates for the election. Do they still intend to stand ? Would any votes for them be wasted ?
I want to finish by voting slip - for what it is worth - this weekend. Can someone help?
Not sure what you are on about. The current board and new President can turn the AOPA Forum site back on at a flick of a switch.
It would be a resonable assumption that there is some reason why the Forum has been left OFF and that this is the fear of comment from the membership? That's my guess anyway.
The sooner it gets going the better.
As a member of AOPA, well not for much longer anyway, I feel a tad in the dark about what is going on. The lack of information from the committee or board or whatever it is, has now become a big part of the problem.
Another question. Some of those who have resigned from the board are candidates for the election. Do they still intend to stand ? Would any votes for them be wasted ?
I want to finish by voting slip - for what it is worth - this weekend. Can someone help?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stab:
A more interesting question is WHAT IF:
Bob Murphie, who is a candidate, has in the past few days been appointed to the board. The board is entitled to fill casual vacancies and the person must then stand for election next time around if he/she want to continue.
If Bob fails to get enough votes (as he did last year) would he still be entitled to stay on the board until the 2005 elections? Is a vote for Bob a wasted vote ?
Perhaps the new Company Secretary might care to comment
Cheers
Russell
A more interesting question is WHAT IF:
Bob Murphie, who is a candidate, has in the past few days been appointed to the board. The board is entitled to fill casual vacancies and the person must then stand for election next time around if he/she want to continue.
If Bob fails to get enough votes (as he did last year) would he still be entitled to stay on the board until the 2005 elections? Is a vote for Bob a wasted vote ?
Perhaps the new Company Secretary might care to comment
Cheers
Russell
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Victoria
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Moving forward…
Like a schoolboy you seem intent to provoke mischievous comment as there is nothing on those sites relevant to your argument such as it is other than trying to play the man rather than the ball. Tell me what you have done to contribute/participate or support this industry over the past decade or more?
Readers should be aware that this and other comment which attempts to portray ASFA as some sort of competition to AOPA is nothing but malicious stirring of the pot to distract from the real issues. The aims and objectives are not and never have been akin to an AOPA like association. You just have to check their web site to prove that! The ASFA Forum has been in existence for some time and not just set up as someone has recently suggested. In addition there is nothing wrong with being a member of any number of associations if one so chooses. In fact some compliment each other – it is only the blind that don't see that!
longstab
You are quite correct in that this is an attempt to distract readers from the issues and I am sure that the readership at large is smart enough to see that.
NOtimTAMs
I have to agree with you, however my "current enthusiasm for AOPA" is driven by the need to have a representative association for GA. At this time it is all we have and I have not been a member for 40yrs just to see it vanish without a wimper. Yes, 10 years ago, we had 2 or 3 dozen members in my area - now less than 10. The reasons seem to be much the same everywhere. Not good!
Again an attempt to divert the issues. There is no "misquote" in the opening post – there is no quote!
Again you are incorrect and your attempt to divert attention will be seen as just that.
Nobody is out to close AOPA and to be honest it is the last thing I and the members that I talk with want to see, especially long term members such as myself. Not only that, I would be confident that there are many non-members that want to see AOPA survive as a strong representative association, in addition to the many members of the Government and industry that want to see a respected and responsible organisation to deal with. The trouble is that there is presently no indication that this is likely or perhaps achievable.
There is no other organisation presently in existence that performs the same or a similar role. Mind you, if things don't improve, an alternative may well rise from the ashes? Your last sentence shows your lack of understanding of the issues or your own gullibility to the brainwashing that has been dished out by those you seem to believe.
It is totally unacceptable that there can be wholesale changes to the board and no notice to members made within 24 hours. I guess we will have to read Fridays Australian ?
M/F To date your posts to this thread have not been constructive in any way. I suspect that you registered that handle just to make these posts. Why don't you use your own name? But then that is obvious anyway.
cheers
Like a schoolboy you seem intent to provoke mischievous comment as there is nothing on those sites relevant to your argument such as it is other than trying to play the man rather than the ball. Tell me what you have done to contribute/participate or support this industry over the past decade or more?
There is a rumour and only a rumour I might add, that some of the people who resigned had contact with asfa. This maybe why some asfa members have spoken out and taken sides with the people who have resigned from AOPA? Who knows why, we all find out one day?
longstab
You are quite correct in that this is an attempt to distract readers from the issues and I am sure that the readership at large is smart enough to see that.
NOtimTAMs
I have to agree with you, however my "current enthusiasm for AOPA" is driven by the need to have a representative association for GA. At this time it is all we have and I have not been a member for 40yrs just to see it vanish without a wimper. Yes, 10 years ago, we had 2 or 3 dozen members in my area - now less than 10. The reasons seem to be much the same everywhere. Not good!
The thread is running right on track.
Here is a misquote in the opening post,
Here is a misquote in the opening post,
It appears things get very political when you read through all these sites and the list goes on. When you read through you would think some organisations are out to close AOPA down at all costs and take its members to bolster up their numbers. It is a shame these people cannot learn to work together instead of putting mud on each other.
Nobody is out to close AOPA and to be honest it is the last thing I and the members that I talk with want to see, especially long term members such as myself. Not only that, I would be confident that there are many non-members that want to see AOPA survive as a strong representative association, in addition to the many members of the Government and industry that want to see a respected and responsible organisation to deal with. The trouble is that there is presently no indication that this is likely or perhaps achievable.
There is no other organisation presently in existence that performs the same or a similar role. Mind you, if things don't improve, an alternative may well rise from the ashes? Your last sentence shows your lack of understanding of the issues or your own gullibility to the brainwashing that has been dished out by those you seem to believe.
It is totally unacceptable that there can be wholesale changes to the board and no notice to members made within 24 hours. I guess we will have to read Fridays Australian ?
M/F To date your posts to this thread have not been constructive in any way. I suspect that you registered that handle just to make these posts. Why don't you use your own name? But then that is obvious anyway.
cheers
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Movingforward:
Andrew, yes an AOPA election is political. And since you proposed two of the candidates standing for election and are also the proprietor of the Hamilton Ticket web site, I guess that makes you part of the political process too.
Our strengths are that we are all passionate about aviation and want AOPA to be successful. Some of us have worked hard on the AOPA board and elsewhere to make this happen but I don’t ever recall seeing your name on the list of directors.
Which organisations would be doing that ? Where is your evidence ? I think you will find that just about everyone in aviation believes that a stronger and more effective representative organisation would greatly benefit all organisations. If you really think that AUF, ASA, AGACF, AWPA, ASFA or whatever wants to take over AOPA then you are sadly deluded or very misinformed.
My guess is that you are an honest, sincere person who like the rest of us wants GA (and therefore AOPA) to survive. Lets all try and be a lot more objective and advance the debate. The directors needs to come out of their bunkers & let members know the facts.
Cheers
Russell
A tyranny suppresses truth while fostering lies – Philip Atkinson
It appears things get very political when you read through all these sites and the list goes on
Our strengths are that we are all passionate about aviation and want AOPA to be successful. Some of us have worked hard on the AOPA board and elsewhere to make this happen but I don’t ever recall seeing your name on the list of directors.
When you read through you would think some organisations are out to close AOPA down at all costs and take its members to bolster up their numbers
Which organisations would be doing that ? Where is your evidence ? I think you will find that just about everyone in aviation believes that a stronger and more effective representative organisation would greatly benefit all organisations. If you really think that AUF, ASA, AGACF, AWPA, ASFA or whatever wants to take over AOPA then you are sadly deluded or very misinformed.
My guess is that you are an honest, sincere person who like the rest of us wants GA (and therefore AOPA) to survive. Lets all try and be a lot more objective and advance the debate. The directors needs to come out of their bunkers & let members know the facts.
Cheers
Russell
A tyranny suppresses truth while fostering lies – Philip Atkinson
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just spent time following 'movingforward's links.
I appreciate they have something to say but I'm sorry, I just can't see it.
If your aim was to identify some names that have made quiet and methodical contributions to our industry over several years, then you succeeded. I suspect though there was an alternative motive at play and that was an attempt to create some link between AOPA and ASFA. Apart from some people being members of both organisations it is quite apparent that there is a serious lack of understanding of the differences and even the similarities of both organisations. Maybe a membership check of say, the AFAP, the Labour Party, the Liberal Party or the Democrats might throw up a few more similar names as well.
But, what does it mean?
I suspect very little if anything.
What I do notice however is the total lack of information being given to me as a member of AOPA about what is happening or what is planned.
The silence is not only deafening but to me, is of major concern.
The industry must have a voice, AOPA has been that voice and should continue to be so. It needs to speak up NOW.
Disco Stu
I appreciate they have something to say but I'm sorry, I just can't see it.
If your aim was to identify some names that have made quiet and methodical contributions to our industry over several years, then you succeeded. I suspect though there was an alternative motive at play and that was an attempt to create some link between AOPA and ASFA. Apart from some people being members of both organisations it is quite apparent that there is a serious lack of understanding of the differences and even the similarities of both organisations. Maybe a membership check of say, the AFAP, the Labour Party, the Liberal Party or the Democrats might throw up a few more similar names as well.
But, what does it mean?
I suspect very little if anything.
What I do notice however is the total lack of information being given to me as a member of AOPA about what is happening or what is planned.
The silence is not only deafening but to me, is of major concern.
The industry must have a voice, AOPA has been that voice and should continue to be so. It needs to speak up NOW.
Disco Stu
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seeing it has been out there to the media since Wednesday and there has been a loud silence from the AOPA board on the matter it is probably timely to publish it here.
I do not here speak for Ron Lawford, Mick Kennedy, or Adrienne Williams, but I believe that we share a common deep regret and extreme disappointment that we found it necessary to resign from the Board.
I did see on another Forum the words “Hooray” and other expressions of relief that we had resigned and in fact an email expressing, “thank god you are now out of the way.
There were some very important administrative issues which I do not intend to discuss here which triggered the resignations, but the above comments indicate the subtext and the difficulty of working with an AOPA board that has a majority that shares that view.
We were elected, by a large majority of the members pretty much on those principles and sentiments I espoused as a Woomera about this time last year.
AOPA the way forward a Woomera perspective It represented the spirit in which we intended to move forward.
Within the month we had secured from the Minister, a meeting with him and ALL of the Senior Dept Heads, Secretaries, Directors of CASA and Air Services, to re-establish the way of communicating with dignity, civilized respect and proactive cooperation with each other, that had been the hallmark and the success of the Patroni days, but with our own stamp on it.
It should never be forgotten that when Dick Smith took over the organisation in 1995, the membership was close to 11,000, AOPA owned it’s own fully tenanted freehold office building, a fully staffed secretariat, around $750,000 (1995 dollars) in the bank and owned and operated it’s own Piper Lance (I think it was). Where are we today and where did all of the members, money and facilities go. Want a graph of the decline? I’ll see if I can post it for you.
The Minister also directed the then Director of CASA, a willing and enthusiastic Mick Toller, having regard for the importance of regular and personal communication on common issues and that AOPA did not have the funds for regular visits to Canberra, that the Director should on a monthly basis visit the President and two Vice Presidents (Ron Lawford and I) in rotation in their hometowns to compare notes and share issues of concern to both parties.
There was much work to be done in rebuilding the organisation from almost a standing start. It took on the scope of a full time job in addition to our day jobs.
This rapid going forward almost ceased in November.
And yes until then we had stopped the membership decline and actually had it trending up.
There was a small but very vocal minority of members who would have it otherwise and fought determined and incessant guerilla warfare on imagined conspiracy issues with half baked board material provided to them on a routine basis. It seems from the contents of the post bymoving forward that still applies.
I have no intention of entering here into an exchange of “he said, I said”.
An individual is elected to the board by the members. That individual is not only entitled to represent his views to the board, but is required to engage in external dialogue with whomever he/she may wish, on any issue in order to determine the “ways and means” that can be formed to promote the interests of the organisation.
It is not incumbent on him/her to vote the party line on pain of personal vilification or threat of personal harm.
About my tenure on the board I will only simply say this.
NO Director of any organisation should expect; the following words or phrases be used in communications to and/or about them, internally and publicly, both verbally and written;
the most destructive person in aviation history;
misusing his/her position as a director of AOPA for personal gain;
dishonest
unprincipled;
a hypocrite.
has previously been charged with criminal fraud in relation to breaches of the Corporations Act;
has previously been charged with criminal fraud in relation to real estate transactions;
the subject of personal investigation by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission.
a liar;
unfit to be a member of any board including the board of the APOA;
ignorant
deliberately misleading,
incompetent.
a fraud.
aviation qualifications are fraudulent
does not have any relevant aviation background and is at best a sad Walter Mitty.
evil,
fool,
corrupt,
criminal.
a dog (in the context of a criminal informer)
Communications advising them to quit the board unless they want to spend the next 2 years having motions of no confidence passed against them at every meeting.
Serial communications outlining why they are not qualified to be a director of AOPA let alone a VP or any part of an executive
Language such as;
Shut your face,
Get stuffed.
Most of the “f” words
Screaming vituperative and incoherent verbal violence.
Motions preventing Ron Lawford from communicating with me in regard to AOPA business in the belief that Ron Lawford, a highly respected aviator, ATO, NT RAPAC Convener and aviation lawyer was somehow unable to make up his mind on issues without my input or that I could influence him to things he would not normally do.
Subsequent motion of no confidence in myself.
Subsequent attempted spill of the President Ron Lawford, because “we have now evidence that you (Ron L) had been in communication with Gary Gaunt.
Bizarre behaviour indeed.
All for maybe holding views different from them and daring to present them as a volunteer member of a voluntary board.
And so on, ad nauseum and the members wonder why the organisation is in trouble and why it is so very difficult to get people with credible aviation backgrounds to nominate. I am no stranger to robust discussion and if the above were only isolated “incidents” I would, maybe, take it as the normal cut and thrust
but as an orchestrated campaign, no way.
You be the judge.
Why is there any guarantee that any new board member will not be treated likewise should they transgress the accepted party line, why indeed bother to offer your industry experience at all?
Further the directors, they know who they are who remained silent during such bizarre outbursts and verbal and emotional harassment, bring the same disapprobation upon themselves as those who were responsible. Eventually men/women of real principle must stand and be counted.
The current or remaining board is properly constituted I guess, the question is how legitimate it is, given its current make up.
As I understand it Mr Ron Bertram (not elected) is now the President, the make up of the rest of the executive is a mystery other than that Mr Chris McKeown (not elected) and Mr Bob Murphie (not elected) have been brought on to the board.
The rest are, Mr Andrew Kerans (past board member), Ms Trish Mahlberg, Mr John Lyons (did not stand, nor was required to, unlike the rest of the board who stood down) and Mr Bill Hamilton (who stood down but did not have to do so, was last on the vote).
On the matter of ASFA. I am a paid up member because I believe in what they are doing, there is no conspiracy.
They are supported and were indeed initially funded out of the CASA Safety Promotions budget.
Our proposed AOPA association, was to provide a safety service to members in the same way that AOPA US have their OWN Aviation Safety Foundation a luxury we cannot afford on our own. And as a bonus to provide a standardization service for the intended AOPA sponsored but aviation industry owned “Be a Pilot” programme also supported by CASA and Air Services.
Almost all Australian aviation organisations, aircraft type operators groups , airlines, charter and corporate operators are either members or are associated in some way with them; the members list is a who’s who of Oz aviation.
The only one not on it is AOPA.
Do you want a relevant credible AOPA in its present form and board makeup?
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
MEDIA RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.
CONTACT: Ron Lawford 08 894 83766
AOPA President, Vice President, Company Secretary and past VP resign.
Ron Lawford today announced with regret, his resignation as President of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) along with those of the Adrienne Williams, Vice President, Mick Kennedy Company Secretary and Gary Gaunt, Director and Past Vice President from the Board of AOPA during a board meeting last night.
Mr. Lawford wishes to record on his and their behalf, appreciation for the wholehearted and constructive cooperation of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Aviation the Hon. John Anderson MHR, Mr Bruce Byron, the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, DOTARS and Mr Bernie Smith, CEO of Air Services Australia, with AOPA during this period.
Minister Anderson's personal undertaking and on behalf of the Australian Government to us, to make any necessary amendments to the Regulations in regard to Strict Liability issues where there is merit to be found in our arguments and that CASA Part 91 amendments will not progress until our concerns are allayed, is consistent with the constructive spirit of reform by negotiation we wished to foster and for which we were elected by the members of AOPA.
Mr Lawford also wishes to record his appreciation for the attention given to AOPA submissions by Mr Bruce Byron. He notes with appreciation that several of those submissions have already been acted on by CASA
It is our sincere hope that the remaining board and their successors will continue to build on those foundations.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.
CONTACT: Ron Lawford 08 894 83766
AOPA President, Vice President, Company Secretary and past VP resign.
Ron Lawford today announced with regret, his resignation as President of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) along with those of the Adrienne Williams, Vice President, Mick Kennedy Company Secretary and Gary Gaunt, Director and Past Vice President from the Board of AOPA during a board meeting last night.
Mr. Lawford wishes to record on his and their behalf, appreciation for the wholehearted and constructive cooperation of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Aviation the Hon. John Anderson MHR, Mr Bruce Byron, the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, DOTARS and Mr Bernie Smith, CEO of Air Services Australia, with AOPA during this period.
Minister Anderson's personal undertaking and on behalf of the Australian Government to us, to make any necessary amendments to the Regulations in regard to Strict Liability issues where there is merit to be found in our arguments and that CASA Part 91 amendments will not progress until our concerns are allayed, is consistent with the constructive spirit of reform by negotiation we wished to foster and for which we were elected by the members of AOPA.
Mr Lawford also wishes to record his appreciation for the attention given to AOPA submissions by Mr Bruce Byron. He notes with appreciation that several of those submissions have already been acted on by CASA
It is our sincere hope that the remaining board and their successors will continue to build on those foundations.
I did see on another Forum the words “Hooray” and other expressions of relief that we had resigned and in fact an email expressing, “thank god you are now out of the way.
There were some very important administrative issues which I do not intend to discuss here which triggered the resignations, but the above comments indicate the subtext and the difficulty of working with an AOPA board that has a majority that shares that view.
We were elected, by a large majority of the members pretty much on those principles and sentiments I espoused as a Woomera about this time last year.
AOPA the way forward a Woomera perspective It represented the spirit in which we intended to move forward.
Within the month we had secured from the Minister, a meeting with him and ALL of the Senior Dept Heads, Secretaries, Directors of CASA and Air Services, to re-establish the way of communicating with dignity, civilized respect and proactive cooperation with each other, that had been the hallmark and the success of the Patroni days, but with our own stamp on it.
It should never be forgotten that when Dick Smith took over the organisation in 1995, the membership was close to 11,000, AOPA owned it’s own fully tenanted freehold office building, a fully staffed secretariat, around $750,000 (1995 dollars) in the bank and owned and operated it’s own Piper Lance (I think it was). Where are we today and where did all of the members, money and facilities go. Want a graph of the decline? I’ll see if I can post it for you.
The Minister also directed the then Director of CASA, a willing and enthusiastic Mick Toller, having regard for the importance of regular and personal communication on common issues and that AOPA did not have the funds for regular visits to Canberra, that the Director should on a monthly basis visit the President and two Vice Presidents (Ron Lawford and I) in rotation in their hometowns to compare notes and share issues of concern to both parties.
There was much work to be done in rebuilding the organisation from almost a standing start. It took on the scope of a full time job in addition to our day jobs.
This rapid going forward almost ceased in November.
And yes until then we had stopped the membership decline and actually had it trending up.
There was a small but very vocal minority of members who would have it otherwise and fought determined and incessant guerilla warfare on imagined conspiracy issues with half baked board material provided to them on a routine basis. It seems from the contents of the post bymoving forward that still applies.
I have no intention of entering here into an exchange of “he said, I said”.
An individual is elected to the board by the members. That individual is not only entitled to represent his views to the board, but is required to engage in external dialogue with whomever he/she may wish, on any issue in order to determine the “ways and means” that can be formed to promote the interests of the organisation.
It is not incumbent on him/her to vote the party line on pain of personal vilification or threat of personal harm.
About my tenure on the board I will only simply say this.
NO Director of any organisation should expect; the following words or phrases be used in communications to and/or about them, internally and publicly, both verbally and written;
the most destructive person in aviation history;
misusing his/her position as a director of AOPA for personal gain;
dishonest
unprincipled;
a hypocrite.
has previously been charged with criminal fraud in relation to breaches of the Corporations Act;
has previously been charged with criminal fraud in relation to real estate transactions;
the subject of personal investigation by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission.
a liar;
unfit to be a member of any board including the board of the APOA;
ignorant
deliberately misleading,
incompetent.
a fraud.
aviation qualifications are fraudulent
does not have any relevant aviation background and is at best a sad Walter Mitty.
evil,
fool,
corrupt,
criminal.
a dog (in the context of a criminal informer)
Communications advising them to quit the board unless they want to spend the next 2 years having motions of no confidence passed against them at every meeting.
Serial communications outlining why they are not qualified to be a director of AOPA let alone a VP or any part of an executive
Language such as;
Shut your face,
Get stuffed.
Most of the “f” words
Screaming vituperative and incoherent verbal violence.
Motions preventing Ron Lawford from communicating with me in regard to AOPA business in the belief that Ron Lawford, a highly respected aviator, ATO, NT RAPAC Convener and aviation lawyer was somehow unable to make up his mind on issues without my input or that I could influence him to things he would not normally do.
Subsequent motion of no confidence in myself.
Subsequent attempted spill of the President Ron Lawford, because “we have now evidence that you (Ron L) had been in communication with Gary Gaunt.
Bizarre behaviour indeed.
All for maybe holding views different from them and daring to present them as a volunteer member of a voluntary board.
And so on, ad nauseum and the members wonder why the organisation is in trouble and why it is so very difficult to get people with credible aviation backgrounds to nominate. I am no stranger to robust discussion and if the above were only isolated “incidents” I would, maybe, take it as the normal cut and thrust
but as an orchestrated campaign, no way.You be the judge.
Why is there any guarantee that any new board member will not be treated likewise should they transgress the accepted party line, why indeed bother to offer your industry experience at all?
Further the directors, they know who they are who remained silent during such bizarre outbursts and verbal and emotional harassment, bring the same disapprobation upon themselves as those who were responsible. Eventually men/women of real principle must stand and be counted.
The current or remaining board is properly constituted I guess, the question is how legitimate it is, given its current make up.
As I understand it Mr Ron Bertram (not elected) is now the President, the make up of the rest of the executive is a mystery other than that Mr Chris McKeown (not elected) and Mr Bob Murphie (not elected) have been brought on to the board.
The rest are, Mr Andrew Kerans (past board member), Ms Trish Mahlberg, Mr John Lyons (did not stand, nor was required to, unlike the rest of the board who stood down) and Mr Bill Hamilton (who stood down but did not have to do so, was last on the vote).
On the matter of ASFA. I am a paid up member because I believe in what they are doing, there is no conspiracy.
They are supported and were indeed initially funded out of the CASA Safety Promotions budget.
Our proposed AOPA association, was to provide a safety service to members in the same way that AOPA US have their OWN Aviation Safety Foundation a luxury we cannot afford on our own. And as a bonus to provide a standardization service for the intended AOPA sponsored but aviation industry owned “Be a Pilot” programme also supported by CASA and Air Services.
Almost all Australian aviation organisations, aircraft type operators groups , airlines, charter and corporate operators are either members or are associated in some way with them; the members list is a who’s who of Oz aviation.
The only one not on it is AOPA.
Do you want a relevant credible AOPA in its present form and board makeup?
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Last edited by gaunty; 29th Apr 2004 at 17:27.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amazing !!!!!!!!!!
Appointing an Administrator to manage AOPA is sounding better by the day.
Failing this, we are stuck with Bill Hamilton being in de facto control, like it or not.
A lot of my questions still haven't been answered though and the more posts there are here, the more questions I have !
The committee are still in hiding, the AOPA Forum is still closed and most of the relevant information about the AGM is missing. Has AOPA already been placed in receivership ?
Will someone from the committee please answer ???????
Appointing an Administrator to manage AOPA is sounding better by the day.
Failing this, we are stuck with Bill Hamilton being in de facto control, like it or not.
A lot of my questions still haven't been answered though and the more posts there are here, the more questions I have !
The committee are still in hiding, the AOPA Forum is still closed and most of the relevant information about the AGM is missing. Has AOPA already been placed in receivership ?
Will someone from the committee please answer ???????
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AOPA Forum is still 'turned off" and inspite of the sun being well and truely 'up', I am still in the dark as to what is going on.
I notice others have also called for an 'Administrator' to run the show, it is surely time now because AOPA is NOT being administered at the moment.
If only 1% of what gaunty has said he was called is true then I am disgusted. I fail to see how such behavour toward an individual could possibly benefit any organisation. Perhaps it shows more the weakness of spirit, ability or skill of the people that called him all those things.
I may be a bit old fashioned but I couldn't possibly support those who act in such a vile, cheap and childish unprofessional way.
Disco Stu
I notice others have also called for an 'Administrator' to run the show, it is surely time now because AOPA is NOT being administered at the moment.
If only 1% of what gaunty has said he was called is true then I am disgusted. I fail to see how such behavour toward an individual could possibly benefit any organisation. Perhaps it shows more the weakness of spirit, ability or skill of the people that called him all those things.
I may be a bit old fashioned but I couldn't possibly support those who act in such a vile, cheap and childish unprofessional way.
Disco Stu
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a copy from the AOPA forum any mebers that do wish to know the truth and not some of the rubish that I have been reading on this forum thread are welcome to call my number you could of course take the easy road and listen to ex board members that have axes to grind and belive the Hamilton camp theory. Or perhaps understand that some of us believe in GA that much we are willing to stay on and repair AOPA.
Dear members
I am sure that allot of you that browse the forums will be feeling a little left out and in the dark. The forum will be put back up with any luck before the weekend. We have been very busy with the change of venue and it is difficult to run and moderate the forum under these circumstances.
As most of you will be aware by now 4 directors have resigned, President Ron Lawford, Vice President Adrienne Williams, Secretary Mick Kennedy and Gary Gaunt. I would like to thank them all for their efforts for the year and wish them the best in any future endeavours.
Following the above resignations I have been elected by the remaining directors to take up the role of President as we only have a month to run there are no other executive positions, Daniel Parsons is the Secretary.
With the resignations it was necessary to appoint in 2 new directors to keep the board proper. The only fair way to do this was to take the next 2 highest votes from the last election for this reason Chris McKeown and Robert Murphie were the candidates form the last election.
I have to admire the resolve of the board members that have stayed on to help AOPA remain the voice of general aviation. We are all united in the same goal and over the last three days have been working on a strategic plan and financial budget to carry us forward to the coming years.
There are many rumours flying around the forums at present and in my view being presented by individuals that would see AOPA on its knees. I have a seven year old son that is very proud of me and often reads the magazine with some of the things that have happened this years. The reason I mention this is simple he loves to fly I take him up as often as possible he will probably go on to make a fine pilot one day but my greatest fear is that there will be no one left to represent his needs in GA without AOPA or the needs of his fellow young pilots.
We are now working on plans to bring in these young pilots and identify and address their needs. If the elections go well we will have a new board that will take these plans forward and increase our membership to healthy numbers. The new board will be focussed on forward planning and each one of us as directors will have to accept that we will not always agree with each other but at the end of the day we all have the same goal.
This next year will be a hard year the new board will have so much work on their hands they will have to work as a team to achieve this and as has happened in the past no director will be left out. We will all have to pull our weight and get out there and sell AOPA. I am still proud to be a member of this organisation despite a very trying year. Those members that know me and have talked to me know my ears are always open so rather than just read rumours from people with questionable motives call me on 0408 637212 and ask me. I will answer any questions you have even if they may be uncomfortable, you may not like some of the answers but at least you will know the truth.
Ron Bertram
Dear members
I am sure that allot of you that browse the forums will be feeling a little left out and in the dark. The forum will be put back up with any luck before the weekend. We have been very busy with the change of venue and it is difficult to run and moderate the forum under these circumstances.
As most of you will be aware by now 4 directors have resigned, President Ron Lawford, Vice President Adrienne Williams, Secretary Mick Kennedy and Gary Gaunt. I would like to thank them all for their efforts for the year and wish them the best in any future endeavours.
Following the above resignations I have been elected by the remaining directors to take up the role of President as we only have a month to run there are no other executive positions, Daniel Parsons is the Secretary.
With the resignations it was necessary to appoint in 2 new directors to keep the board proper. The only fair way to do this was to take the next 2 highest votes from the last election for this reason Chris McKeown and Robert Murphie were the candidates form the last election.
I have to admire the resolve of the board members that have stayed on to help AOPA remain the voice of general aviation. We are all united in the same goal and over the last three days have been working on a strategic plan and financial budget to carry us forward to the coming years.
There are many rumours flying around the forums at present and in my view being presented by individuals that would see AOPA on its knees. I have a seven year old son that is very proud of me and often reads the magazine with some of the things that have happened this years. The reason I mention this is simple he loves to fly I take him up as often as possible he will probably go on to make a fine pilot one day but my greatest fear is that there will be no one left to represent his needs in GA without AOPA or the needs of his fellow young pilots.
We are now working on plans to bring in these young pilots and identify and address their needs. If the elections go well we will have a new board that will take these plans forward and increase our membership to healthy numbers. The new board will be focussed on forward planning and each one of us as directors will have to accept that we will not always agree with each other but at the end of the day we all have the same goal.
This next year will be a hard year the new board will have so much work on their hands they will have to work as a team to achieve this and as has happened in the past no director will be left out. We will all have to pull our weight and get out there and sell AOPA. I am still proud to be a member of this organisation despite a very trying year. Those members that know me and have talked to me know my ears are always open so rather than just read rumours from people with questionable motives call me on 0408 637212 and ask me. I will answer any questions you have even if they may be uncomfortable, you may not like some of the answers but at least you will know the truth.
Ron Bertram
I actually had a cheque written out late last year to join. Got busy at work and it was delayed a few days...then the events happened and I thought I'd just wait a bit to see what occurs.
Cheque and app form is now in the bin.
Cheque and app form is now in the bin.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well my sub was due for renewal in a couple of months and my decision has been made too.
None of what Mr Bertram has said in his communique would change this, only confirm that being a member is waste of time.
He has failed to address a single issue on this Forum.
The behaviour by fellow directors towards Mr Gaunt warrants dismissal of the whole board. Different opinions do not appear to be tolerated and those who dare run the gauntlet of bullying and intimidation. No wonder AOPA is in such a mess.
Mr Bertram will need to demonstrate a large dose of leadership and win back the confidence of members. This also implies being inclusive and consulting with the membership and taming the egos that are measured by the cubic metre.
Then there is proper management of the finances and a demonstration of propriety,decency and civil behaviour towards fellow directors. Then the contempt towards members will have to cease.
None of this will happen.
Vale AOPA.
None of what Mr Bertram has said in his communique would change this, only confirm that being a member is waste of time.
He has failed to address a single issue on this Forum.
The behaviour by fellow directors towards Mr Gaunt warrants dismissal of the whole board. Different opinions do not appear to be tolerated and those who dare run the gauntlet of bullying and intimidation. No wonder AOPA is in such a mess.
Mr Bertram will need to demonstrate a large dose of leadership and win back the confidence of members. This also implies being inclusive and consulting with the membership and taming the egos that are measured by the cubic metre.
Then there is proper management of the finances and a demonstration of propriety,decency and civil behaviour towards fellow directors. Then the contempt towards members will have to cease.
None of this will happen.
Vale AOPA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: middleofthehighway
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Longstab,
I been watching this from the beginning, and whilst Dougs and Russells, and Garys posts seem to be rather less destructive than yours, I have come to the conclusion that you have no idea what your talking about. You have created this alias purely for this thread, and set about spraying every reader with verbal diahorria about how much you will stick by gaunt, with your unknown alias. Big and brave you are..... and before you say it, yes I know I'm using an alias, but not using it in the way you are....
Dog
I been watching this from the beginning, and whilst Dougs and Russells, and Garys posts seem to be rather less destructive than yours, I have come to the conclusion that you have no idea what your talking about. You have created this alias purely for this thread, and set about spraying every reader with verbal diahorria about how much you will stick by gaunt, with your unknown alias. Big and brave you are..... and before you say it, yes I know I'm using an alias, but not using it in the way you are....
Dog
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
None of what Mr Bertram has said in his communique would change this, only confirm that being a member is waste of time.
He has failed to address a single issue on this Forum.
He has failed to address a single issue on this Forum.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Victoria
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In any organisation I am of the belief that "communication" is the key to its success. Nothing is more important. Considering only about 5% of the members subscribe to the forum and perhaps only a few more check the web page, is it any wonder that the membership is in the dark?
Whilst it is admirable that Ron has at last spoken the continued absence of any formal announcement or email to members or for that matter a simple notice on the web page perhaps shows a level of contempt for the membership at large.
It is also interesting that Ron is suggesting one-on-one discussions by asking people to call him, rather than make some specific statements.
Whilst I believe that Ron will do his utmost to make AOPA succeed, the ingredients with which he has to work will continue to make it very difficult, as it was no doubt for Ron Lawford.
The Web page is boring by default and has not been updated for some time. If we are to have this tool available to the membership then it must stay with the times and be attractive for members to visit on a regular basis.
I wish Ron luck, he will need it.
cheers
Whilst it is admirable that Ron has at last spoken the continued absence of any formal announcement or email to members or for that matter a simple notice on the web page perhaps shows a level of contempt for the membership at large.
It is also interesting that Ron is suggesting one-on-one discussions by asking people to call him, rather than make some specific statements.
Whilst I believe that Ron will do his utmost to make AOPA succeed, the ingredients with which he has to work will continue to make it very difficult, as it was no doubt for Ron Lawford.
The Web page is boring by default and has not been updated for some time. If we are to have this tool available to the membership then it must stay with the times and be attractive for members to visit on a regular basis.
I wish Ron luck, he will need it.
cheers
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Doug
I have taken on board what you have said we have answered some of those issues in a strategic plan. I you will imagine I am very busy at the moment and members are calling me and the office. Doug I will not make specific points on this Forum when we have our own up and running again I may take a different view. This is not contempt more of a case that my hands are tied sorry there is little point in playing table tennis on a forum direct communication with me is far more effective than addressing someone that hides behind a forum name creating trouble. Their real names are known to all and they are now being seen to be what they really are and why AOPA has suffered for some years now. I do not need luck to go forward just resolve and determination.
Ron Bertram
I have taken on board what you have said we have answered some of those issues in a strategic plan. I you will imagine I am very busy at the moment and members are calling me and the office. Doug I will not make specific points on this Forum when we have our own up and running again I may take a different view. This is not contempt more of a case that my hands are tied sorry there is little point in playing table tennis on a forum direct communication with me is far more effective than addressing someone that hides behind a forum name creating trouble. Their real names are known to all and they are now being seen to be what they really are and why AOPA has suffered for some years now. I do not need luck to go forward just resolve and determination.
Ron Bertram
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ron
I too would like to congratulate you on your appointment as President and wish the you the best.
You have a tough, if not impossible, job ahead.
I accept your undertaking that you will act independently and place the membership first.
I hope too that the committee under your leadership will accept AOPA as a pluralistic representative body that is prepared to take all membership views on board.
I for one would like to see that you are given a fair go. But you will attract criticism if the members are not kept informed on what is happening.
Cheers
Russell
I too would like to congratulate you on your appointment as President and wish the you the best.
You have a tough, if not impossible, job ahead.
I accept your undertaking that you will act independently and place the membership first.
I hope too that the committee under your leadership will accept AOPA as a pluralistic representative body that is prepared to take all membership views on board.
I for one would like to see that you are given a fair go. But you will attract criticism if the members are not kept informed on what is happening.
Cheers
Russell
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disco, Stallie, longstab, demigod et al
I’m pretty sure I know who you all are and it was not my intention that my revelations and those of you who know me know they are factual, should cause you to desert AOPA, an organisation that is capable, in the right hands, of being an effective, relevant credible and powerful representative of your interests.
Unless you are a member you can’t change it, I have re-nominated despite the threat of serial no confidence motions and I have a multi year membership.
Mr Bertram tells us the remaining board are (now) united, you should ask him who or what it was they were united against before and why, remember I was not the only Director to resign.
If they were unable to handle me, a person, they as is their right, consider to be an "irrelevance", without resorting to such peurile tactics what chance do they have of dealing effectively with those who really aren't?
My last words were
Appointing an Administrator along with a clearly defined exit strategy for ultimately taking control back to the members is IMHO the only way out of the morass.
Rearranging the deck chairs with their latest “new and entirely different strategic plans and budgets” than the “other” ones is just that and I’m sure they will have the Palm Court orchestra playing on the after deck as well, as she slips quietly under the water.
A couple of points that need clarification;
Last year was the hard year, the new board actually had a real mandate from the members and did have much more work on their hands.
Sadly most refused to work as a team and one Director when asked at the first meeting and at least two subsequent “was he prepared to work with the board” refused point blank and continued “to consider my position”. It did not stop him from busily promoting and representing at least three other organisations, one overtly hostile to AOPA, both publicly and at the various industry Consultative Forums often alongside the board appointed AOPA rep, he and his echo on the board have much to answer for.
This year it seems will be a return to the “glorious past” that had the membership in terminal decline.
Yes there were hands put up for this and that, but in the end and as is usual in most voluntary organisations the real work fell to the willing few. When it got tough and as is usual in most voluntary organisations the same ones who found themselves too busy or happy to leave it to those they had elected within the board to get on with it, suddenly find new life when an opportunity to drag down and devour the hapless workers arises.
Not the ones I know and to which you refer, they simply want a modicum of order and the board rid of the problems of the past, as did it seems, the majority of members last year.
The last years President (now back on the board) did not get returned and last years Senior Vice President barely scrambled back on, last, by around 14 votes against, by his reckoning, a person not fit to be a Director. Go figure.
I have met the young man in question and he will be a fine one I am sure.
However my 30 year old and 25 year old daughters, both university educated management execs, Govt and private respectively and 21 year old son on his way there, not only read the mag but have been, as close families are privy to the knowledge of by whom and under what circumstances, yes
In the way of modern young things they have a brutally simple and direct way of summing up such matters.
“They’re (insert here one of the many appropriately pithy modern terms available for “it’s irreparably broken”) Dad, why do you bother with them?”
Mr Bertram can assume the role of Janus if he chooses, “in the interests of members” of course, just be careful that you know which door he opens and where it may lead.
The “leadership” shown so far, has led us directly to the situation in which we now find ourselves. Go figure.
Resolve? If these are the same board members who were either explicit, or complicit by their silence, in the goings on described above, tell me why any rational person would think it is going to change and who is likely to be their next victim.
I am sure many will take the opportunity to call Mr Bertram and I exhort you to do so, my number has been available to members all year, hardly more than half a dozen have used it to ask questions, none so far to complain about my behaviour.
But it is still 0417 958 312.
I say again.
Do you want a relevant credible AOPA in its present form and board makeup?
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Whatever you do vote, if you don't then you can't complain about the result.
Dog
You would do yourself a much greater service were you to tell those here, if in fact you are a nominee to the AOPA Board, both for your own credibility and in the much vaunted "in the interests of members" of course.
movingforward
Did Russell guess right perhaps?
I took your advice and did a "google" on the Administrator of the AGACF site, amaaaaazing results.
The devil made me do it.
I’m pretty sure I know who you all are and it was not my intention that my revelations and those of you who know me know they are factual, should cause you to desert AOPA, an organisation that is capable, in the right hands, of being an effective, relevant credible and powerful representative of your interests.
Unless you are a member you can’t change it, I have re-nominated despite the threat of serial no confidence motions and I have a multi year membership.
Mr Bertram tells us the remaining board are (now) united, you should ask him who or what it was they were united against before and why, remember I was not the only Director to resign.
If they were unable to handle me, a person, they as is their right, consider to be an "irrelevance", without resorting to such peurile tactics what chance do they have of dealing effectively with those who really aren't?
My last words were
Do you want a relevant credible AOPA in its present form and board makeup?
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Rearranging the deck chairs with their latest “new and entirely different strategic plans and budgets” than the “other” ones is just that and I’m sure they will have the Palm Court orchestra playing on the after deck as well, as she slips quietly under the water.
A couple of points that need clarification;
This next year will be a hard year the new board will have so much work on their hands they will have to work as a team to achieve this and as has happened in the past no director will be left out. We will all have to pull our weight and get out there and sell AOPA.
Sadly most refused to work as a team and one Director when asked at the first meeting and at least two subsequent “was he prepared to work with the board” refused point blank and continued “to consider my position”. It did not stop him from busily promoting and representing at least three other organisations, one overtly hostile to AOPA, both publicly and at the various industry Consultative Forums often alongside the board appointed AOPA rep, he and his echo on the board have much to answer for.
This year it seems will be a return to the “glorious past” that had the membership in terminal decline.
Yes there were hands put up for this and that, but in the end and as is usual in most voluntary organisations the real work fell to the willing few. When it got tough and as is usual in most voluntary organisations the same ones who found themselves too busy or happy to leave it to those they had elected within the board to get on with it, suddenly find new life when an opportunity to drag down and devour the hapless workers arises.
There are many rumours flying around the forums at present and in my view being presented by individuals that would see AOPA on its knees.
The last years President (now back on the board) did not get returned and last years Senior Vice President barely scrambled back on, last, by around 14 votes against, by his reckoning, a person not fit to be a Director. Go figure.
I have a seven year old son that is very proud of me and often reads the magazine with some of the things that have happened this years. The reason I mention this is simple he loves to fly I take him up as often as possible he will probably go on to make a fine pilot one day but my greatest fear is that there will be no one left to represent his needs in GA without AOPA or the needs of his fellow young pilots.
However my 30 year old and 25 year old daughters, both university educated management execs, Govt and private respectively and 21 year old son on his way there, not only read the mag but have been, as close families are privy to the knowledge of by whom and under what circumstances, yes
the weakness of spirit, ability or skill of the people that called him all those things.
“They’re (insert here one of the many appropriately pithy modern terms available for “it’s irreparably broken”) Dad, why do you bother with them?”
Mr Bertram can assume the role of Janus if he chooses, “in the interests of members” of course, just be careful that you know which door he opens and where it may lead.
The “leadership” shown so far, has led us directly to the situation in which we now find ourselves. Go figure.
I have to admire the resolve of the board members that have stayed on to help AOPA remain the voice of general aviation. We are all united in the same goal and over the last three days have been working on a strategic plan and financial budget to carry us forward to the coming years.
I am sure many will take the opportunity to call Mr Bertram and I exhort you to do so, my number has been available to members all year, hardly more than half a dozen have used it to ask questions, none so far to complain about my behaviour.
But it is still 0417 958 312.
I say again.
Do you want a relevant credible AOPA in its present form and board makeup?
It is as always in your hands. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Whatever you do vote, if you don't then you can't complain about the result.
Dog
You would do yourself a much greater service were you to tell those here, if in fact you are a nominee to the AOPA Board, both for your own credibility and in the much vaunted "in the interests of members" of course.
movingforward
Did Russell guess right perhaps?
I took your advice and did a "google" on the Administrator of the AGACF site, amaaaaazing results.
The devil made me do it.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doug Stott, Russell Kelly
You have sold out, pathetic.
Movingforward
I too have worked out the cryptic posts and now know who you are. A Google search on your name is interesting too.
Gaunty
You are entitled to answers and so am I. What happens if you get elected or have you withdrawn your nomination ? What happens to your votes?
Dogimed
Mr Dog, you claim I am talking rubbish. Well maybe, but I am entitled to my opinion, no bones about it. I am not in the know like you, I'm just an ordinary member with no idea what is going on. I seem to be the only one here that doesn't have access to board papers and emails.
Insideout
Sounds all sweet. If I can get the time I will phone you on the weekend. Right at the moment I'll get the sack if I spend any more time on work's computer.
You have sold out, pathetic.
Movingforward
I too have worked out the cryptic posts and now know who you are. A Google search on your name is interesting too.
Gaunty
You are entitled to answers and so am I. What happens if you get elected or have you withdrawn your nomination ? What happens to your votes?
Dogimed
Mr Dog, you claim I am talking rubbish. Well maybe, but I am entitled to my opinion, no bones about it. I am not in the know like you, I'm just an ordinary member with no idea what is going on. I seem to be the only one here that doesn't have access to board papers and emails.
Insideout
Sounds all sweet. If I can get the time I will phone you on the weekend. Right at the moment I'll get the sack if I spend any more time on work's computer.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Victoria
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Administrator of the AGACF has posted what appears to be most of this thread on his own board, concluding with the following comment:
I will not comment, but only say that AOPA was its most respected and successful when it was the former. There is a time and place for the later, but the more you do it, the quicker you loose any respect you might have…. Which funnily enough does not "achieve".
Me thinks that is part of the problem!
cheers
It is evident who wants to build the aviation industry up and those who want to tear it down.
Who would you get behind?
1.) Those who are the quite achievers in Aviation!
or
2.) Those who make the most noise from the roof tops!
Who would you get behind?
1.) Those who are the quite achievers in Aviation!
or
2.) Those who make the most noise from the roof tops!
Me thinks that is part of the problem!
cheers