Pilots' Awards made Common Rule
Join Date: Jan 1998
Location: somewhere in the nth of Oz, where it isn't really cold
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not qualified to speak about 89 .. so I won't.
It is easy to sit back and criticise from the sidelines .. but it doesn't get much done in the way of resolving the dilemma.
EBA AWA's whatever/however you dress it up, still will not pay below the award, which is what all are pilots regardless of which company and what type they are flying are entitled to.
No-body has said it is going to be easy .. but the goal posts have moved in, not out.
You as an individual have protection for your rights. Individually there is a mechanism to ensure that those rights are met.
However, collectively the mass can make more noise, and can achieve more .. the addage about divide and conquer springs to mind.
It's not about being militant and forcing companies and people into strike situations .. but standing firm for a basic right for a certain rate of pay and conditions deemed the minimum even at the entry level of aviation. (or any other profession for that matter!)
Please keep 89 out of this thread .. it has been done to death .. and the winds of change are blowing ...
It is easy to sit back and criticise from the sidelines .. but it doesn't get much done in the way of resolving the dilemma.
EBA AWA's whatever/however you dress it up, still will not pay below the award, which is what all are pilots regardless of which company and what type they are flying are entitled to.
No-body has said it is going to be easy .. but the goal posts have moved in, not out.
You as an individual have protection for your rights. Individually there is a mechanism to ensure that those rights are met.
However, collectively the mass can make more noise, and can achieve more .. the addage about divide and conquer springs to mind.
It's not about being militant and forcing companies and people into strike situations .. but standing firm for a basic right for a certain rate of pay and conditions deemed the minimum even at the entry level of aviation. (or any other profession for that matter!)
Please keep 89 out of this thread .. it has been done to death .. and the winds of change are blowing ...
Don't be naive and think your employer doesn't know about the change in the award applicability. Every top end employer I worked for was a member of some chamber of commerce, industry lobby group etc. One of the services provided by these organisations was to advise their members of any change in the industrial landscape. In one instance they knew about a pay rise in the award 4 months before we pilots found out about it. All they could do was pay up, including back pay, when we asked for it. It didn't send them broke, and we weren't blacklisted. In a court of law, ignorance of a law or legislation is not considered a legitimate defence. If you want a level playing field for your company and your employees, be assertive and ask for your legal rights. If you can't do that, you're in the wrong profession.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TL asks :"Can anyone see any negatives arising from this?"
Duh!
First question for you lads and lasses who might be a little scared of walking up to the boss and saying -- hey, I think we need to have a look at how this new law affects us...
Feel a little apprehensive about doing that?
Are you the person that aspires to taking command of a multi-engined jet at some stage in the future? Think that will be everything going your way every day? Think that you won't have some stand-offs with your management in that fine job?
Not a job for a shrinking violet.
Get some practice in standing up for yourself now.
You are just asking for the minimum wage the employers and the union AGREED to in the Industrial Relations Court.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Can only see positives for CPL's looking to make their way up.
Same number of charters will depart each day. Maybe a smaller team of pilots flying them. Said pilots can now borrow money to buy cars, get instrument ratings, save up for that Virgin 737 endorsement. Said pilots getting more hours faster and moving through the system faster. Less time to wait for the next guy or gal to take their old job ---
Of course all the Top End employers know about the award. Sheesh.
They take comfort in the fact that only one pilot in twenty, on average, has the b@lls to ask for what they are entitled to.
That says more about the lack of character in 19 out of 20 CPLs than it says about the employers.
Stop whinging and white-anting each other.
Ask for your money.
Duh!
First question for you lads and lasses who might be a little scared of walking up to the boss and saying -- hey, I think we need to have a look at how this new law affects us...
Feel a little apprehensive about doing that?
Are you the person that aspires to taking command of a multi-engined jet at some stage in the future? Think that will be everything going your way every day? Think that you won't have some stand-offs with your management in that fine job?
Not a job for a shrinking violet.
Get some practice in standing up for yourself now.
You are just asking for the minimum wage the employers and the union AGREED to in the Industrial Relations Court.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Can only see positives for CPL's looking to make their way up.
Same number of charters will depart each day. Maybe a smaller team of pilots flying them. Said pilots can now borrow money to buy cars, get instrument ratings, save up for that Virgin 737 endorsement. Said pilots getting more hours faster and moving through the system faster. Less time to wait for the next guy or gal to take their old job ---
Of course all the Top End employers know about the award. Sheesh.
They take comfort in the fact that only one pilot in twenty, on average, has the b@lls to ask for what they are entitled to.
That says more about the lack of character in 19 out of 20 CPLs than it says about the employers.
Stop whinging and white-anting each other.
Ask for your money.
itcz
Sounds reasonable, you go first!
Kep us us all posted on your progress.
Sounds reasonable, you go first!
Kep us us all posted on your progress.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't be such a pussy megle2 !
and the rest of you Stand up for your rights . Thats the only way things will get better for all of us.
As many unions say "united we bargin divided we fall".
get my drift??
I did ands it the best thing I did
and the rest of you Stand up for your rights . Thats the only way things will get better for all of us.
As many unions say "united we bargin divided we fall".
get my drift??
I did ands it the best thing I did
I must improve my spelling and presentation first. Meeow
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My dear megle2, should I ever find myself back down there, I will -- again.
EAC (defunct) paid me above award in my first C210 job. We even got 100% entitlements when it fell over. That was a C210 job!
Hardy paid me full-time, straight award and all the allowances.
AirNorth -- self plus 4 others were the first AirNorth pilots to be presented with AWA's. These required us to buy our endorsements from a third party. Three weeks, a bunch of phonecalls and a few letters later Bridgey paid for the upgrade.
So what's your excuse now, megle2?
EAC (defunct) paid me above award in my first C210 job. We even got 100% entitlements when it fell over. That was a C210 job!
Hardy paid me full-time, straight award and all the allowances.
AirNorth -- self plus 4 others were the first AirNorth pilots to be presented with AWA's. These required us to buy our endorsements from a third party. Three weeks, a bunch of phonecalls and a few letters later Bridgey paid for the upgrade.
So what's your excuse now, megle2?
ITCZ
Well thats very impressive
I know others that have achieved what appeared to be the impossible
The fact remains that the masses well never band together nor press their case for at least the award entitlements
Hours are first, dollars come second until they achieve the 500 hours multi ect
Two years as the Fed Rep taught me this
If I came down again I would also expect it. I've been fortunate to work for excellent operators who looked after the troops
Well thats very impressive
I know others that have achieved what appeared to be the impossible
The fact remains that the masses well never band together nor press their case for at least the award entitlements
Hours are first, dollars come second until they achieve the 500 hours multi ect
Two years as the Fed Rep taught me this
If I came down again I would also expect it. I've been fortunate to work for excellent operators who looked after the troops
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who's gettin' what?
It'll be 4 weeks on Thursday since the notices in the NT News.
So what has changed?
From what I've heard...
H.Av' and AF are paying award, they were on and/or close before anyway.
A.Nth and Pearl were already on & over it.
A.NGU were by the award anyway (I think), but have put more pilots on full-time.
WacWacs... haven't heard anything?
MAF were signatories already paying equivalent EBA's.
And NAC has ignored the award altogether, are still paying $38/hr with no minimums. Staff are not “expected” to hangar rat, but still do or they won’t get flying.
.... Nothing heard from Alice Springs. Central guys/gals?
This raises my earlier question, if anyone can comment... Do companies A - L have grounds to report/pursue company N for non-compliance, given the unfair field of competition this generates?
So what has changed?
From what I've heard...
H.Av' and AF are paying award, they were on and/or close before anyway.
A.Nth and Pearl were already on & over it.
A.NGU were by the award anyway (I think), but have put more pilots on full-time.
WacWacs... haven't heard anything?
MAF were signatories already paying equivalent EBA's.
And NAC has ignored the award altogether, are still paying $38/hr with no minimums. Staff are not “expected” to hangar rat, but still do or they won’t get flying.
.... Nothing heard from Alice Springs. Central guys/gals?
This raises my earlier question, if anyone can comment... Do companies A - L have grounds to report/pursue company N for non-compliance, given the unfair field of competition this generates?
Props are for boats!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: An Asian Hub
Age: 56
Posts: 994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just looking at the base Salary for Captains up to 19000 kgs just shy of 48k. 
Bloody robbery, Im glad employers stick to the award at that end
not!
Sheep
Bloody robbery, Im glad employers stick to the award at that end
not!
Sheep
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bringing this one back to the top.
Seems to be a pertinent thread. Thanks jon.pierre.
It is law. As such, ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STAND UP AND DEMAND COMPLIANCE. The persons responsible for drafting the law, should be enforcing compliance.
It is the law, yet employers still try it on.
Seems to be a pertinent thread. Thanks jon.pierre.
It is law. As such, ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STAND UP AND DEMAND COMPLIANCE. The persons responsible for drafting the law, should be enforcing compliance.
It is the law, yet employers still try it on.
