Arena Aviation
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sure poto,
The term comes from a story in Homer's Iliad, in which the Greeks give a giant wooden horse to their foes, the Trojans, ostensibly as a peace offering. But after the Trojans drag the horse inside their city walls, Greek soldiers sneak out of the horse's hollow belly and open the city gates, allowing their compatriots to pour in and capture Troy.
redcan redcan redcan redcan.
The term comes from a story in Homer's Iliad, in which the Greeks give a giant wooden horse to their foes, the Trojans, ostensibly as a peace offering. But after the Trojans drag the horse inside their city walls, Greek soldiers sneak out of the horse's hollow belly and open the city gates, allowing their compatriots to pour in and capture Troy.
redcan redcan redcan redcan.
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Was told a story a while back that the "trojan Horse" is now sniffing around YBAF looking for work. Disturbing to hear that she also jeopardises the careers of ex AMI blokes by bad mouthing them to potential employers. DF knows what I'm on about. But thats cool. He's done well regardless of her slanderings.
As for Arena, all I can remember about them (been a long time since I flew thru YBAF) is that they used to have a chick instructor that was georgeous. I think her name was Dana. Babe! Her sister was a hottie too. Had I been looking for somewhere to train a few years back and she was the one that greeted me there's every chance they would have gotten my coin. Beyond that I went thru YBAF in a chieftain one arvo and needed to get some fresh weather so ventured in to ask for the use of their fax. They couldn't have been more helpful. It's horses for courses lads. I'm sure like all organisations that train pilots there are the disgruntled stories. But for each of those there is another that praises said company. Dwelling on this crap will just make you bitter and twisted.
For the guy thats wants to do some flight training (what this thread is about after all) just ask whoever it is that you are considering for a list of all the people that have trained with them in the last 12/24 months and call them individually. That'll answer any questions you have about the company. If they aren't keen to offer you the names and numbers I think you can pretty safely give them a wide berth. I did this years ago when looking for somewhere to train and it worked a treat.
As for Arena, all I can remember about them (been a long time since I flew thru YBAF) is that they used to have a chick instructor that was georgeous. I think her name was Dana. Babe! Her sister was a hottie too. Had I been looking for somewhere to train a few years back and she was the one that greeted me there's every chance they would have gotten my coin. Beyond that I went thru YBAF in a chieftain one arvo and needed to get some fresh weather so ventured in to ask for the use of their fax. They couldn't have been more helpful. It's horses for courses lads. I'm sure like all organisations that train pilots there are the disgruntled stories. But for each of those there is another that praises said company. Dwelling on this crap will just make you bitter and twisted.
For the guy thats wants to do some flight training (what this thread is about after all) just ask whoever it is that you are considering for a list of all the people that have trained with them in the last 12/24 months and call them individually. That'll answer any questions you have about the company. If they aren't keen to offer you the names and numbers I think you can pretty safely give them a wide berth. I did this years ago when looking for somewhere to train and it worked a treat.
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Helpfull
I have not trained at Arena, nor an I thinking about it. But I did approach them whilst I was in search of work at the end of last year and the CFI or D/CFI was very helpfull and answered a lot of questions about the QLD aviation industry that many other people had not been that helpfull at answering.
But I dont know there training so I leave that up to you! Enjoy!
But I dont know there training so I leave that up to you! Enjoy!
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DF was quite close to A so this comes as no surprise I still see it as a Trojan Horse. quite a few of the ex AMI drivers learnt this after helping her out. Mud sticks, even if its not true. What comes around goes around. Don't get bitter just move on.
Dana was very hot as I met her 95' I thought she was at QF on classics.
I recommend Bob Harris at HAS very strongly. Do not pay up front leave it in your account = interest. stay away from the sausage factories.
but now I must drink
redcan redcan redcan redcan
Dana was very hot as I met her 95' I thought she was at QF on classics.
I recommend Bob Harris at HAS very strongly. Do not pay up front leave it in your account = interest. stay away from the sausage factories.
but now I must drink
redcan redcan redcan redcan
Last edited by James Taylor; 20th Mar 2004 at 23:59.
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I trained in Sydney but came through YBAF twice in my training on navex's and every time I came through there was arena's shiny fleet of what "looked" like well maintained aircraft. Both times I went in to use the fax and both times they were more than helpfull. No sign of a that blonde otherwise I too might have stayed to empty my wallet. Now I don't really care but -
suspicious -You actually encountered people that said that. Thats seems a very blanket statement. Those people that suposedly said that show a distinct lack of further education. I have nothing to do with the aformentioned school but doesn't that sound ignorant to anyone. There are going to be good and bad people go through every flying school. Personally an arena guy took over after me on my first job and he was a very good switched on pilot(great bloke too). But as I said there are rotten and golden apples in every bunch.
As for other less sausage factory schools, Johnsons at port mac was good for me, I only did a few endorsements there but all instructors are great people and very friendly and willing to help. Mates of mine have done MECIR and CPL there too and only good reviews from them. Good nights out there too. Just dont add to the statistic of young single mothers in Port Mac cause there are thousands already.
We understand the Trojan horse story but just interested as to what the person in question did to be likened to greek soliders running out of a wooden horse, surely more to that story and we'd like to hear it
I like the Idea of asking for intructors that are paid the award. Very good idea. That is the place to start to fix up this industry. Poor grade3s getting raped all over the industry. (I never Instructed either) PAY THE AWARD
I was then left in a position where I was told by prospective employers that "it was a real shame" I trained at Arena, despite doing exceptionally well on my exams, and passing my flight tests with ease.
As for other less sausage factory schools, Johnsons at port mac was good for me, I only did a few endorsements there but all instructors are great people and very friendly and willing to help. Mates of mine have done MECIR and CPL there too and only good reviews from them. Good nights out there too. Just dont add to the statistic of young single mothers in Port Mac cause there are thousands already.
We understand the Trojan horse story but just interested as to what the person in question did to be likened to greek soliders running out of a wooden horse, surely more to that story and we'd like to hear it
I like the Idea of asking for intructors that are paid the award. Very good idea. That is the place to start to fix up this industry. Poor grade3s getting raped all over the industry. (I never Instructed either) PAY THE AWARD
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DRshmoo,
I only gave my observation, about the trojan horse as I witnessed.
Karma!
no more no less, you work it out.
redcan redcan redcan redcan
I only gave my observation, about the trojan horse as I witnessed.
Karma!
no more no less, you work it out.
redcan redcan redcan redcan
Last edited by James Taylor; 21st Mar 2004 at 01:22.
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Hey there J.T.
According to the Arena "past students" page (where everyone is a winner that will one day make it to the airlines...!!) the Trojan Horse is working for G.A.M. Met up with an AMI driver on a charter once that really didn't have nice things to say about the horse.
Fancy that.
Whoever asked if I was physically told "it was a real shame" that I trained at Arena, those were the exact words used, BY 2 DIFFERENT CP'S.
I don't think it's uneducated, I would say most of the Arena students come through with a very distorted sense of reality. That is the Arena way of selling it's product. Initial enquiry discovers if you have much knowledge of the industry (in my case, not) and then they heap on the LIES until you can't wait to hand over your money.
the new sausuages are then taught by other sausages that have done an in-house Grade 3. In-breeding from top to bottom.
By the way, Dana is the CP's daughter, now flies for QF.
According to the Arena "past students" page (where everyone is a winner that will one day make it to the airlines...!!) the Trojan Horse is working for G.A.M. Met up with an AMI driver on a charter once that really didn't have nice things to say about the horse.
Fancy that.
Whoever asked if I was physically told "it was a real shame" that I trained at Arena, those were the exact words used, BY 2 DIFFERENT CP'S.
I don't think it's uneducated, I would say most of the Arena students come through with a very distorted sense of reality. That is the Arena way of selling it's product. Initial enquiry discovers if you have much knowledge of the industry (in my case, not) and then they heap on the LIES until you can't wait to hand over your money.
the new sausuages are then taught by other sausages that have done an in-house Grade 3. In-breeding from top to bottom.
By the way, Dana is the CP's daughter, now flies for QF.
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Don't judge a flying school on where past students are now flying. H.A.S would have just as many or more past scholars in great airline, regional, positions ect.
That is a poor measure of how good a school is, in the end it's upto you as the individual and what you aspire to fly/achieve.
BE SURE to do your ATPL with the best ...........Nathan Higgins and A.F.T. best money you'll ever spend, make sure you get you ATPL subjects done and out of the way before you start work as a GA pilot. It is very difficult a) to get motivated to study b) get time off c) to arrange test times ect. when you are long way away on a station doing bore inspections.
redcan redcan redcan redcan
That is a poor measure of how good a school is, in the end it's upto you as the individual and what you aspire to fly/achieve.
BE SURE to do your ATPL with the best ...........Nathan Higgins and A.F.T. best money you'll ever spend, make sure you get you ATPL subjects done and out of the way before you start work as a GA pilot. It is very difficult a) to get motivated to study b) get time off c) to arrange test times ect. when you are long way away on a station doing bore inspections.
redcan redcan redcan redcan
Last edited by James Taylor; 21st Mar 2004 at 02:57.
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great post Dr Phil.
I had EXACTLY the same probs as you. Being as I was a bit older, and worked so damn hard to get the money to fly, I was reluctant to, but did on a couple of occasions dare to ask how or why.
then just like that, the crap starts. I think I said earlier I was put on the outer, Dr Phil explained perfectly what I meant.
Probably up to 20 times I had my flights juggled around, stuffed up or cancelled, mostly without my knowledge...!!
I would turn up, on time ready to go, then "oh, sorry but......"
I was even pulled aside by the old chick who answered the phone at the time I was training and told "I better start playng the game around here, people who don't play the game don't get anywhere".
Unbelievable.
On the aircraft issue, Phil's right. Find out how many operators for first timers have Tobago's on line. I can tell you, there's NONE.
I had EXACTLY the same probs as you. Being as I was a bit older, and worked so damn hard to get the money to fly, I was reluctant to, but did on a couple of occasions dare to ask how or why.
then just like that, the crap starts. I think I said earlier I was put on the outer, Dr Phil explained perfectly what I meant.
Probably up to 20 times I had my flights juggled around, stuffed up or cancelled, mostly without my knowledge...!!
I would turn up, on time ready to go, then "oh, sorry but......"
I was even pulled aside by the old chick who answered the phone at the time I was training and told "I better start playng the game around here, people who don't play the game don't get anywhere".
Unbelievable.
On the aircraft issue, Phil's right. Find out how many operators for first timers have Tobago's on line. I can tell you, there's NONE.
I did not train at Arena / ATC but I fly with many who have. They all seem to say that for training they were great. To work for , like any GA operator they have ups and downs.
I also understand they have an ex QF senior Checky doing the sim stuff for instrument ratings. I am sure that sort of experience would be invaluable and a better product than most other schools in the area could offer.
BUT........I know BOB HARRIS is excellent at his job and VERY well respected in the field.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Captain Stoobing
I also understand they have an ex QF senior Checky doing the sim stuff for instrument ratings. I am sure that sort of experience would be invaluable and a better product than most other schools in the area could offer.
BUT........I know BOB HARRIS is excellent at his job and VERY well respected in the field.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Captain Stoobing
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EEE TEE wrote
I tried to send you a PM/email, but you choose to have that blocked. So I'll reply here:
I agree with your claim that Bob Harris and Johnston Aviation have an excellent product.
Perhaps you could enlighten us with your personal experiences with BAe? If you have in fact done any training there, then you most likely would have done ALL your training from go to whoa, and considering they are a fully integrated training college you therefore would have had little to do with the aforementioned organisations
Just because an organisation is large doesn't make it a "sausage factory" (as you put it).
Let's stick to the facts Eee Tee.
I know nothing of Arena but if I were you I would definitely steer away from BAE and the other big "sausage factories", you're just a number in a crowd.... I know my employer and others will not hire folks from such places.
Perhaps take a look at some of the smaller schools:
*Bob Harris in Innisfail.
*Johnston Aviation in Port Macquarie
Perhaps take a look at some of the smaller schools:
*Bob Harris in Innisfail.
*Johnston Aviation in Port Macquarie
I agree with your claim that Bob Harris and Johnston Aviation have an excellent product.
Perhaps you could enlighten us with your personal experiences with BAe? If you have in fact done any training there, then you most likely would have done ALL your training from go to whoa, and considering they are a fully integrated training college you therefore would have had little to do with the aforementioned organisations
Just because an organisation is large doesn't make it a "sausage factory" (as you put it).
Let's stick to the facts Eee Tee.
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Did my initial IR with Aircrew Check and Training in Armidale NSW. Was good for 5 very simple reasons.
1. Armidale is a nice quiet town where you can seriously get down to studying, studying and more studying
2. All my flying was done with the ATO from start to finish, not mutual with a junior 3 or another student, therefore you learn more
3. This comapny takes a very serious approach to getting your briefs PERFECT. You will learn how to lay out a brief in a precise, concise and palatable manner. When I took my rating to another comapny in Perth and compared my briefs and lessons with other instructors, the difference was astounding.
4. They SPECIALISE in Flight Instructor Training from initial to METAP to IFTAP to senior pilot trainng, BGT theory all in house.
5. The coffee is good.
p.s. I dont work for them
1. Armidale is a nice quiet town where you can seriously get down to studying, studying and more studying
2. All my flying was done with the ATO from start to finish, not mutual with a junior 3 or another student, therefore you learn more
3. This comapny takes a very serious approach to getting your briefs PERFECT. You will learn how to lay out a brief in a precise, concise and palatable manner. When I took my rating to another comapny in Perth and compared my briefs and lessons with other instructors, the difference was astounding.
4. They SPECIALISE in Flight Instructor Training from initial to METAP to IFTAP to senior pilot trainng, BGT theory all in house.
5. The coffee is good.
p.s. I dont work for them
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IT'S HORSES FOR COURSES. Did my initial training at RACWA (YPJT) very very good. Did intrument rating at Arena, got fcked up the ass a few times but they got me threw in time. Nice ppl, like i say, like any company, in any industry, u cant please everyone everytime. Have been back since and would put either of my 2 sons through their course anytime (Arena). But as i say, it is horses for courses, i have a few friends who are probably not of the same opinion.
Seems to be true seat1a, found these photos on a local website yesterday, hope it's ok to post links..
Photos of graffiti 1
Photos of graffiti 2
Photos of graffiti 3
Photos of graffiti 4
Photos of graffiti 1
Photos of graffiti 2
Photos of graffiti 3
Photos of graffiti 4
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I have posted on this thread that (as a former student) I wouldn't advise people to attend this school....
However this vandalism is just NOT on. Where was the security? A real shame to see the Tomahawk that I went solo in, treated with such contempt!
However this vandalism is just NOT on. Where was the security? A real shame to see the Tomahawk that I went solo in, treated with such contempt!
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Well well well........looks as though this one done by someone who knew what they were doing. Doesnt look like the work of an unhappy customer. Having flown out of YBAF in the past I know that the security there is terrible. It involves one guy 'doing the rounds' every hour or so with a barking dog in the back of his ute. It will be interesting to see what happens.............thanks for the link.
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Having had exposure to both forms of training; ie the likes of arena & BAE Systems. In my view BAE systems stands in a league of its own; without a doubt far more superior than the crap coming out of YBAF. For one the experience level of all BAE instructors was Level 1 (When I did mine it was anyway), i don't mean to totally undermine all the newby instructors (like found at arena or any other tom, dick and harry school) but the majority of these guys wouldn't know how to fly themselves let alone teach someone how to. It's about time some real standards where set, ie instructors required to have had a certain level of exposure to the GA charter world. I know when I came out of my training I was a lot more prepared for what the aviation world threw at me, that's certainly a lot more than can be said for others I have seen.
