CASA Raids Meatbombers No 2
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Gday justapplhere
It certainly is real and signed by Tony Rothwell.
I think your criticism of the investigaters is some what harsh, they have been working on this problem for at least three years.
I think the delay was further up the chain.
Cheers Q
It certainly is real and signed by Tony Rothwell.
I think your criticism of the investigaters is some what harsh, they have been working on this problem for at least three years.
I think the delay was further up the chain.
Cheers Q
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Im with you Wizard!
It does sound a bit like axe grinding going on down there by a select few.
I would like to think that in time the operator will sort out some sort of danger area just like they have at Picton DZ south of Sydney.
Then I would imagine the area would be safer and the wingers can move on!
HS
It does sound a bit like axe grinding going on down there by a select few.
I would like to think that in time the operator will sort out some sort of danger area just like they have at Picton DZ south of Sydney.
Then I would imagine the area would be safer and the wingers can move on!
HS
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justapplhere. I would think Rothwell would hold that delegation.
However in view of Sect 9 of the Civil Aviation Act, how is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)
However in view of Sect 9 of the Civil Aviation Act, how is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)
Air Ace,
Basically its sport as they all jumpers need to be a member of a club, and "purchases" are done through the club (in theory).
Where I see it gets very grey is advertising for services, that requires and AOC, adverts I see don't say become a member of a skydive club for one day and we will give you an introductory push out an aeroplane, rather "Tandem Jump thrill of your life" etc.
Some states clubs use similar rules to get around the liquor licensing rules, instead of buying say a beer, they purchase a raffle ticket from the club, you just happen to get a beer with the raffle ticket.
Basically its sport as they all jumpers need to be a member of a club, and "purchases" are done through the club (in theory).
Where I see it gets very grey is advertising for services, that requires and AOC, adverts I see don't say become a member of a skydive club for one day and we will give you an introductory push out an aeroplane, rather "Tandem Jump thrill of your life" etc.
Some states clubs use similar rules to get around the liquor licensing rules, instead of buying say a beer, they purchase a raffle ticket from the club, you just happen to get a beer with the raffle ticket.
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swh,
The Civil Aviation Act 1988 states:
9. CASA's Function:
CASA has the function of conducting the safety regulation of the following, in accordance with this Act and the regulations:
(a) civil air operations in Australian territory.
My question is: "How is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)"
In view of CAR 210, how are commercial parachuting operations able to publicly advertise their services?
justapplhere seems to be "close to the CASA action" and generally seems to be correct in his/her interpretations.
Not knocking your interpretation, but I have a real problem in "joining a club" and "buying a raffle ticket" where air safety is concerned.
The Civil Aviation Act 1988 states:
9. CASA's Function:
CASA has the function of conducting the safety regulation of the following, in accordance with this Act and the regulations:
(a) civil air operations in Australian territory.
My question is: "How is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)"
In view of CAR 210, how are commercial parachuting operations able to publicly advertise their services?
justapplhere seems to be "close to the CASA action" and generally seems to be correct in his/her interpretations.
Not knocking your interpretation, but I have a real problem in "joining a club" and "buying a raffle ticket" where air safety is concerned.
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I've read this gossip from the beginning and it appears that much of it is "gossip". Being in the West and a Board member of the APF I am more than happy to hear from people who can give me facts and dates and first-hand accounts of breaches of regulations. If pilots are flying "questionable" overloaded aircraft and flying in cloud without appropriate ratings this should be looked into. As should jumpers who breach the regulations. The APF is serious about enforcing the rules and I take offence when unconfirmed accusations are made in a public forum. Many of the statements made on this topic could be considered libel. I would suggest that in this forum accusations are made because the authors cannot be identified. Give me the facts and dates and identify yourself and action can be taken.
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bach:
"I am more than happy to hear from people who can give me facts...." and
"Give me the facts and dates and identify yourself and action can be taken."
I'm sure those who have posted comments in this thread would like to provide you with those facts.
May I suggest you activate either or both your PPRuNe Private Message or Email function as it is currently impossible for anyone except a Moderator to contact you?
I am more than willing to immediately remove any posting which is subsequently proven gossip, libelous or contrary to the rules of PPRuNe.
Woomera
"I am more than happy to hear from people who can give me facts...." and
"Give me the facts and dates and identify yourself and action can be taken."
I'm sure those who have posted comments in this thread would like to provide you with those facts.
May I suggest you activate either or both your PPRuNe Private Message or Email function as it is currently impossible for anyone except a Moderator to contact you?
I am more than willing to immediately remove any posting which is subsequently proven gossip, libelous or contrary to the rules of PPRuNe.
Woomera
Air Ace,
By operating as a club, its looked at as a "Private Operation", you seem to have a copy of the regs and act so you can look that one up.
In theory you are not paying for the flight, the club does, and everyone is a club member.
My point that I mentioned above, and you have restated is you need an AOC to advertise, it is possible, and I believe it is done that some PJE operators have and AOC and fly around IFR.
If you want to have a look at INSTRUMENT NUMBER: CASA 388/00 follow the link, its the conditions for PJE ops, two of these have been issued, one to each of the large PJE orgs in oz.
Not withstanding this, it is plausible to conduct the PJE ops commercially under an AOC, making general comments about all PJE operators on this forum will not serve anyone any good.
Just some facts, I am not involved in the area at all.
Its bit hard to stroke every club and PJE operator with the same brush, there are some very professionaly orgs out there, and some not so, just like a cross section of the wider community.
By operating as a club, its looked at as a "Private Operation", you seem to have a copy of the regs and act so you can look that one up.
In theory you are not paying for the flight, the club does, and everyone is a club member.
My point that I mentioned above, and you have restated is you need an AOC to advertise, it is possible, and I believe it is done that some PJE operators have and AOC and fly around IFR.
If you want to have a look at INSTRUMENT NUMBER: CASA 388/00 follow the link, its the conditions for PJE ops, two of these have been issued, one to each of the large PJE orgs in oz.
Not withstanding this, it is plausible to conduct the PJE ops commercially under an AOC, making general comments about all PJE operators on this forum will not serve anyone any good.
Just some facts, I am not involved in the area at all.
Its bit hard to stroke every club and PJE operator with the same brush, there are some very professionaly orgs out there, and some not so, just like a cross section of the wider community.
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Thank You Woomera for alerting me to that oversight. I have now activated my Private message function and look foward to recieving the facts, dates and first-hand accounts.
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Go Here
CASA Miscellaneous Legislative Instruments
And open
CASA 64/04
Specifications under regulation 152 of CAR 1988 relating to parachute descents at Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 36/04).
CASA 63/04
Direction under subregulation 92(2) of CAR 1988 relating to the parachute operations in the vicinity of Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 34/04).
refers.
It's all there on the record.
CASA Miscellaneous Legislative Instruments
And open
CASA 64/04
Specifications under regulation 152 of CAR 1988 relating to parachute descents at Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 36/04).
CASA 63/04
Direction under subregulation 92(2) of CAR 1988 relating to the parachute operations in the vicinity of Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 34/04).
refers.
It's all there on the record.
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Once again swh...your onto it!
Woomera...cheers mate. Have read this one.
Its interesing to note that CASA has not shut these guys down but moved them as such with a new reg in place.
I think there is a lot of pending things going on at the moment with the BH troubles and all, also with other DZ's about.
This kind of stuff has been going on a long time at other DZ's around the country.
Unfortunatly it becomes a war of jumpers against the others so to speak. As stated in a post, they came with good intentions but it turned sour.
From my past experiences thats what has happened at some 3 or 4 DZ's I know off.
I dont think its a matter of the DZ operator's becoming complacint ******s like QNIM and the like's would like you to believe, but more a fact of the area or airfield not used to the high number of A/C movements invading the space and seeming to own the place because of all the action.
And also not understanding the whole skydive neighborhood!
By moving jumpers and ringing CASA every 5 minutes because it apears they are not within the regs, or pissed off they are in your space all day, is not the answer to me.
There needs to be more research done by the APF and CASA to make the modern skydiving world (BUSY) a much safer and better place for all. Regulated as such!
As far as cloud punching goes:
In NZ read Part 105.25 (b)
A person may decend through cloud in airspace designated under Part 71 as controlled airspace, and classified as Class C or D, if they have an ATC clearance to do so.
In AUZ there is a proposed rule well worth reading for the in's and outs of it all. Go here. I hope it develops for saftey sake.
http://rrp.casa.gov.au/miscprojects/nprm0012os.asp
Air field user groups are all good too. Here where we operate is one of the busiest airports and areas in the country and we ALL operate within an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding).
ATC included. It works very well.
Maybe if people got a bit more proactive on the whole thing people like QNIM would stay a lot more happy and the BH mob won't have to lose so much dosh every day because of grey area's if you know what I mean.
Hope it all works out for all!
Bye for now.
Cheers GW
Woomera...cheers mate. Have read this one.
Its interesing to note that CASA has not shut these guys down but moved them as such with a new reg in place.
I think there is a lot of pending things going on at the moment with the BH troubles and all, also with other DZ's about.
This kind of stuff has been going on a long time at other DZ's around the country.
Unfortunatly it becomes a war of jumpers against the others so to speak. As stated in a post, they came with good intentions but it turned sour.
From my past experiences thats what has happened at some 3 or 4 DZ's I know off.
I dont think its a matter of the DZ operator's becoming complacint ******s like QNIM and the like's would like you to believe, but more a fact of the area or airfield not used to the high number of A/C movements invading the space and seeming to own the place because of all the action.
And also not understanding the whole skydive neighborhood!
By moving jumpers and ringing CASA every 5 minutes because it apears they are not within the regs, or pissed off they are in your space all day, is not the answer to me.
There needs to be more research done by the APF and CASA to make the modern skydiving world (BUSY) a much safer and better place for all. Regulated as such!
As far as cloud punching goes:
In NZ read Part 105.25 (b)
A person may decend through cloud in airspace designated under Part 71 as controlled airspace, and classified as Class C or D, if they have an ATC clearance to do so.
In AUZ there is a proposed rule well worth reading for the in's and outs of it all. Go here. I hope it develops for saftey sake.
http://rrp.casa.gov.au/miscprojects/nprm0012os.asp
Air field user groups are all good too. Here where we operate is one of the busiest airports and areas in the country and we ALL operate within an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding).
ATC included. It works very well.
Maybe if people got a bit more proactive on the whole thing people like QNIM would stay a lot more happy and the BH mob won't have to lose so much dosh every day because of grey area's if you know what I mean.
Hope it all works out for all!
Bye for now.
Cheers GW
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My 2 Bobs Worth
I’m sad to say, you sorry bunch, that.
I’ve been hearing about the bull that’s been going on at this site but until I’d read all the threads I couldn’t believe the amount of absolute rubbish that seems to be coming from rs480, Lukeatme and QNIM. I’ve been flying in and around Geelong for the past 15 years and it would appear that you all have your noses out of joint as a result of his pink one being a bloody site bigger than yours.
So guys, what are you going to do when the dirt darts come back, I hear they’ve legalized jumping through cloud, so it cant be that dangerous after all. My suggestion is you start working out how you are going to work with them for the safety of all concerned
I’ve been hearing about the bull that’s been going on at this site but until I’d read all the threads I couldn’t believe the amount of absolute rubbish that seems to be coming from rs480, Lukeatme and QNIM. I’ve been flying in and around Geelong for the past 15 years and it would appear that you all have your noses out of joint as a result of his pink one being a bloody site bigger than yours.
So guys, what are you going to do when the dirt darts come back, I hear they’ve legalized jumping through cloud, so it cant be that dangerous after all. My suggestion is you start working out how you are going to work with them for the safety of all concerned
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 25th Feb 2004 at 23:22.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I have........... so whats the biggy with that?. It happens and is unintentional, not like doing stuff on purpose. 12 years of flying and it finally happened 
.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Uuuuum, nope, just a simple "clipping of the edge of class C". I dunno if I'm going to get shot for it yet................... Still waiting.
could have aborted an approach if my timing was a bit better though.
could have aborted an approach if my timing was a bit better though.
........ geeez, by the time I got there he already had the chocks under and the covers on. 
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Oh dear, three people on two threads having three seperate shots on the same subject................ and your all still guessing. 
some of you have extreemly selective memories. I was too crook to commit the deed.......remember?
some of you have extreemly selective memories. I was too crook to commit the deed.......remember?
