VHF or HF in PNG??

[safari suit]

Hi,

I'm flying up to PNG from Sydney next month to get some command hours to finish off my CPL, and I'm not sure if I really need HF.

I rang up a couple of blokes in Port Moresby CAA and they faxed me this list of frequencies which had HF and VHF on it. The ERC-L6 chart in Torres Straight says to contact the PNG FIS VHF on 124.9 once I'm outside the Australian FIR.

The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with just VHF radio up there. I'm planning Horn Island, Daru, Port Moresby, Nadzab, Madang. Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT? I'm going up there to try and find someone who might give me a job one day.

Thanks heaps,
SS

[John Citizen]

Don't get too worried about which VHF/HF frequencies you need in PNG as Flight (lack of) Service are not always there to talk to you.

You can spend up to 10 minutes at times trying to contact Flight Service to get a position report out of something but you can not always find them.

Just when you think your radio is U/S, flight (lack of) service suddenly reappears.

Don't ever bother trying to put out a Mayday call to Flight (lack of) Service as chances are they won't hear you.

Unfortunately Flight (lack of) service seems to give more priority to chewing betelnut and playing soliatire all day.

Radio calls seem to be optional up here.

Make sure you also bring a bullet proof jacket if you come to PNG.

[griffinblack]

You will definitely need HF. You need to report to and give position reports to flight service every 30 mins and at each turn point within 2 mins. You will not do this with VHF and may need to try several freqs/agencies HF.

Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT?

YES, just a tad.

Good luck – you will need it.

[John Citizen]

You need to report to and give position reports to flight service every 30 mins and at each turn point within 2 mins.

Yes, in theory you need to do the above but don't bother about being accurate to within 2 minutes.

As I said earlier, sometimes it takes 10 minutes to raise Flight (lack of) Service just to give a position report.

You think they would be expecting a positon report from you and maybe listening out for you at your ETA but I don't think they care.

You can even miss your position report and they won't even call up looking for you - maybe not until 10 minutes after your ETA.

[troppo]

Take heed of the advice you got in the African Aviation forum and apply it to PNG.

If you really want to go get an Explorer Fare out of Cairns for $500 and bum a lift when you can around the country in return for some SP.

The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with

....

You will need to be very lucky to get away with anything...

[OzExpat]

PNG-RNC-1 carries the following statement :

Itinerant aircraft intending domestic flight in Papua New Guinea are required to be fitted with serviceable HF frequencies :
5565, 6622, 8837, 8861 and 8906 khz.

So yes, regardless of whatever else has already been posted about FIS here, you WILL need at least those frequencies to be available in your aircraft. VHF coverage has improved a bit in the last few years, so you MIGHT be able to raise Moresby FIS on VHF at the FIR boundary, but I wouldn't bet on it if I was you.

As you've already had some info from the PNG CAA, it's likely that you know that you need approval for the flight. But you may not yet be aware that you must make arrangements for CIQ clearance at Daru. And then you should be prepared to be waiting a few hours for them to turn up.

And, yes, given your total flight experience to date - and considering the VASTLY different environment in which you gained those hours - I'd have to say that your plan is extremely ambitious. By all means, follow your plan as far as Port Moresby, staying over terrain that has few large rocks to get in your way. Call it quits at that though... I do not recommend you taking on a further journey to Nadzab or Madang, or anywhere else, because there's an awful lot of big rocks along the way...

[The Voice]

just a quick question ..

why put yourself at great risk jollying over to a place where mere mortals fear to fly, when you can clock up the said hours having a jolly around the far flung remoter areas of Oz? .. mind you HF wouldn't go too far astray doing that either .. I've (in my previous days) had to deal with aircraft in distress on HF radio .. including a helo in diabolical trouble out off an oil rig .. it isn't the ideal, but at least you are heard! can't do that on VHF freq's when out of range ..

130 hours ... ten foot tall and bullet proof ...

don't be silly!

[Tinstaafl]

Do the people you're hiring the a/c from know that you intend to take it outside Oz? What insurance cover does it have?

[wb727d]

SAFARI SUIT SAFARI SUIT SAFARI SUIT

DO YOUR SELF A GREAT TURN AND STAY AT HOME


GET YOUR HOURS AND SOME HANDS ON EXP IN AUS BEFORE
YOU WORRY ABOUT PNG

130 HRS AND PNG DO NOT GO TOGETHER WELL

[safari suit]

Thanks for your help... really appreciate it. Just a couple more things.

I'm waiting on some charts to arrive and I don't exactly know how bad the terrain is.... sounds like it is worse than I thought. What is the LSALT from Port Moresby to Nadzab? And who do you contact to get approval for the flight, and make arrangements for CIQ at Daru?

The insurance cover extends to international flights, with a higher excess outside Oz.

Thanks

[tinpis]

Do yourself a favour and stay put in oz.Even a flight Cairns-Daru-Moresby with no rocks on the way can be very dodgy weather wise
HF never bloody worked even in taim bilong masta.

[troppo]

tell ya what...if you're dead set on going delay it til may and i'll come for a ride and hold your hand

[tinpis]

From many times gasping and wheezing without oxy in IMC I seem to remember the LSA POM -LAE was 14110'
Dont think its shrunk none.
Have a nice trip

[bigfella5]

Wake Up

Safari my man,
Have a look at the replies you've recieved.......can you see a trend developing?!!
When people who have flown in the region on a professional basis are telling you to give it a miss and do your flying here in Aus....probably a good idea to take heed.
I've looked over those answers above there's damn good advice sitting there.
So rather than be nice and say something along the lines of "perhaps best to think further on your need to go to PNG"...I'll put it this way....

Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT?
In that question you'll find the answer....don't be a bloody fool boy!
If you want some advice as to some ways to build up your hours and you are serious about being a professional pilot,...PM me and I'll guide you towards some people up round here Far North Queensland way who'd be willing to help and advise you.
I'm not trying to be a mongrel....just hate seeing young fellas hurting themselves needlessly...that's what marriage is for!
Look after yourself.

[Johhny Utah]

mate,

you're biting off WAY more than you can chew I would recommend tht you definitely DO NOT try to fly around PNG by yourself unless you've had someone with A LOT of local experience (pref in the multiple 1000s of hours) show you how it's done.

The route POM-NZ can be flown at ~12000', but only if it is a gin clear day. Otherwise, I used to do it in the 402 at 14000' or higher. I'm not too sure what sort of aircraft you're planning on using, but unless it is either a highly powered single (C185, C206 at a stretch) or a twin with good performance (Baron, C310 or larger) then I don't think you should tempt fate.

I was of the understanding that private flights by foreign visitors weren't allowed in PNG. I believe this was introduced after a doctor/surgeon from Newcastle crashed his cessna whilst off track in between Port Moresby & Nadzab, killing not only himself but also his mate & their partners/children. As such, I'd be surprised if you were actually allowed to flight plan your trip. Then again, having been to PNG & seen how CAA operates, nothing should really surprise me...

I'd recommend that you DON'T do the trip - don't become another statistic. By all means come on up & see some operators, but don't count on scoring a job in PNG with low (< 1000 hrs) total time. At the end of the day, it really is for your own safety & well being...

PM me if you want any further info.

[compressor stall]

And also take advice from those who replied to you here

Go around oz. Do yourself and your passengers a favour.

[OzExpat]

safari suit... I could answer your latest series of questions but I'm not going to. When I said : "By all means, follow your plan as far as Port Moresby", I neglected to add the vital phrase : "if you MUST" and it's omission made my previous comments sound a bit too generous.

In common with all of those who've posted since my last post, I strongly believe you should get the additional hours within Oz airspace. The sort of operators who might consider employing a brand new CPL won't even look at you until you have the licence because they can't plan that far ahead. Thus, the whole trip will be a waste of time and is likely to ruin your prospects for any sort of career in aviation, if you meet up with a rock in dodgy wx.

Take the advice that's already on this thread... please!

[The Voice]

and I think that just about sums it up ..

Oze should know what he is talking about Safari Suit ...

[Taildragger]

Safari Suit
Mate, I sincerely do NOT want to piss on your parade, but when people like Ozexpat and Tinpis (Whom I know) and others who I probably do know, tell you to back off, you can be sure they know a thing or two. What miserbale talent I have in flying, was severely tested to destruction in PNG with a damn sight more time in my Log Book. (If time alone is the crtierion) I saw people I knew and whom I respected very much indeed step out and kill themselves with high time in their log book. I have seen young pilots arriving in PNG ex Australia and within 5 days they had flown up the wrong branch of a valley, with the inevitable result.
In this case, he killed 10 people in a C185. (Yes, not a misprint - TEN. Children Infants, Adults etc) I knew a guy fly up the wrong valley in his twin on a trip he had done dozens of times. (Less than a week after he had got his shiny new IR) It is NOT an environment for new pilots, no matter how confident they feel.
In addition to the good advice not to do it, no one has mentioned the weather which can change in a heartbeat. You go in through the front door, which closes behind you, then the back door is bolted shut.... You have control ace.
I sincerely do not wish to put a dampener on you, but more to the point I don't want to see you dead either.
take good advice when you see it, and don't go to PNG UNTIL you have a lot more "difficult" time under your belt. Good airmanship is about good decision making...make the right one here.
In any case, certainly no operator will look at you until you are stood in front of him. Sorry to be so blunt mate, but I really would like to see you achieve your ambition ...... alive.

[Tail_Wheel]

"The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with just VHF radio up there. I'm planning Horn Island, Daru, Port Moresby, Nadzab, Madang. Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT?"

No HF - no go! Period!

Port Moresby - Nadzab - Madang, no HF, 130 hours TT? Surely you jest? Don't even think about it in your wildest dreams!

Have you even considered the risks and requirements of the Cairns - HID - DAU sectors, particularly at this time of the year (wet season, mostly IMC), let alone the anticipated sectors within PNG?

The "smallest" aircraft Tinpis and Taildragger flew in PNG was a well maintained 300 HP C185 or C206. I assume you are considering using the average flying school training aircraft e.g. a C172 to visit PNG? If so, it has little hope of outclimbing the terrain when you end up in a blind alley - at 8,000 feet plus ASL!

I noticed your post didn't give details of the return flight. I would think that if you attempt the flight you propose, you probably won't need to consider the return flight details.

Also, you have no possible hope of pilot employment in PNG without at least 1,000 to 1,500 hours including very significant multi time. By the time you get there, any contacts you make at this time will be useless to you.

Don't do it. Don't even think about it!