Pilot background checks
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne
Age: 41
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot background checks
I've just received an e-mail which I find rather disturbing. I'm all for increased security at airports etc but this is going too far
Pilot Background Checks Find Toehold
Is the terrorist threat lower here . or does the TSA believe these checks are worthless ... or is someone actually standing up for our "freedoms" ... or maybe our pilot lobbying groups are just better than theirs? Whatever the case, it's Australia -- not the U.S. -- that will have all pilots submit to a background check by their Security Intelligence Organization prior to the issuance of photo licenses. Australia's new security measures for GA were announced a few weeks ago, but the Aussie government didn't immediately publicize that a pilot's privilege of being fingerprinted and having his or her closets searched for skeletons would cost those pilots $200 each, and recur every two years. Here in the U.S., an estimated $1 billion a week to support elevated security has not so directly been passed on to GA. We're not complaining. And while we can imagine what U.S. alphabet groups would have to say about such a proposal, the Aussies seem to accept their charge without a whimper. AVweb
's cursory search of Australian pilot and aviation group Web sites could find nary a disparaging word about the new tax, but maybe we weren't looking in the right places. The new annual $100 tab is not the only added cost for GA, however. The government is also ordering extra anti-theft measures for GA aircraft. Although the measures will be "determined by the aircraft operators as appropriate," according to the new regulations, some suggestions include prop locks, door locks and securing hangars. Government inspectors will be doing random security checks, although no penalties are mentioned for non-compliance. Sport license holders and sport aircraft are exempt.
Please pass this email onto others within the Australian GA Community, making them aware of the above issue that will effect us all.
What does everyone think? I'm thinking revenue raising.
Pilot Background Checks Find Toehold
Is the terrorist threat lower here . or does the TSA believe these checks are worthless ... or is someone actually standing up for our "freedoms" ... or maybe our pilot lobbying groups are just better than theirs? Whatever the case, it's Australia -- not the U.S. -- that will have all pilots submit to a background check by their Security Intelligence Organization prior to the issuance of photo licenses. Australia's new security measures for GA were announced a few weeks ago, but the Aussie government didn't immediately publicize that a pilot's privilege of being fingerprinted and having his or her closets searched for skeletons would cost those pilots $200 each, and recur every two years. Here in the U.S., an estimated $1 billion a week to support elevated security has not so directly been passed on to GA. We're not complaining. And while we can imagine what U.S. alphabet groups would have to say about such a proposal, the Aussies seem to accept their charge without a whimper. AVweb
's cursory search of Australian pilot and aviation group Web sites could find nary a disparaging word about the new tax, but maybe we weren't looking in the right places. The new annual $100 tab is not the only added cost for GA, however. The government is also ordering extra anti-theft measures for GA aircraft. Although the measures will be "determined by the aircraft operators as appropriate," according to the new regulations, some suggestions include prop locks, door locks and securing hangars. Government inspectors will be doing random security checks, although no penalties are mentioned for non-compliance. Sport license holders and sport aircraft are exempt.
Please pass this email onto others within the Australian GA Community, making them aware of the above issue that will effect us all.
What does everyone think? I'm thinking revenue raising.
Metrosexual
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Enroute
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pretty dumb considering you can walk onto a regional airliner with all sorts of concealed weapons at just about any regional airport across Australia unmolested.
Also, what about people who already hold an ASIC card and have already gone through the AFP background check?
By the way, the check doesn't cost anywhere near $200.
Also, what about people who already hold an ASIC card and have already gone through the AFP background check?
By the way, the check doesn't cost anywhere near $200.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jet A,
Yes it does cost $200... here is the link:
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/fact_sheet6.aspx
Not too happy about being slugged again
On Reserves
Yes it does cost $200... here is the link:
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/fact_sheet6.aspx
Not too happy about being slugged again
On Reserves
This has to be one Great Practical Joke?
As J-A-K said in an earlier post - there is no security for regional RPT at these airports. At ours, you could walk on board with anything in your cabin bags.
What's worse here is that an 'illegal' could jump ship from one of the several bulk grain carriers here in port each week, hire a taxi to the airport, and get on board the F50 as a standby - all without anyone ever having seen them before.
The gates to the RPT tarmac area are unlocked and totally unsecure, so if anyone chose not to buy a ticket, they could just wander over to the F50, and board by force.
If you wanted to drive onto the main tarmac area it's very simple - just go past the GA hangars, and proceed straight ahead. This makes it much simpler to park the truck alongside the F50, or the fuel pumps, or the parked charter turbines!!
And they want pilots to be security checked!? Why bother, when the whole airport is open to the general public?
Of course, we owners keep our hangars locked, mainly to discourage theft of tools, parts, and radio gear out of aircraft. If anyone seriously wanted to get into a hangar, all it takes is an electric drill, and you'd have the tech screws out of a panel of GI in 10 secs flat!
We pilots and owners the ones at greatest risk with the current do-nothing system of security at regional airports.
Until this is fixed, what's the point of targetting pilots and owners with a quite misguided, typically bureaucratic, numbskull security clampdown?
happy days,
As J-A-K said in an earlier post - there is no security for regional RPT at these airports. At ours, you could walk on board with anything in your cabin bags.
What's worse here is that an 'illegal' could jump ship from one of the several bulk grain carriers here in port each week, hire a taxi to the airport, and get on board the F50 as a standby - all without anyone ever having seen them before.
The gates to the RPT tarmac area are unlocked and totally unsecure, so if anyone chose not to buy a ticket, they could just wander over to the F50, and board by force.
If you wanted to drive onto the main tarmac area it's very simple - just go past the GA hangars, and proceed straight ahead. This makes it much simpler to park the truck alongside the F50, or the fuel pumps, or the parked charter turbines!!
And they want pilots to be security checked!? Why bother, when the whole airport is open to the general public?
Of course, we owners keep our hangars locked, mainly to discourage theft of tools, parts, and radio gear out of aircraft. If anyone seriously wanted to get into a hangar, all it takes is an electric drill, and you'd have the tech screws out of a panel of GI in 10 secs flat!
We pilots and owners the ones at greatest risk with the current do-nothing system of security at regional airports.
Until this is fixed, what's the point of targetting pilots and owners with a quite misguided, typically bureaucratic, numbskull security clampdown?
happy days,
We should all stick together on this one and refuse bluntly to any of it .
Why dont they check each passenger that buys a ticket and put a 200 dollar tax on the ticket .
Nobody should do this check lets ground Australia it almost worked in 89.
Why dont they check each passenger that buys a ticket and put a 200 dollar tax on the ticket .
Nobody should do this check lets ground Australia it almost worked in 89.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And if I decide to fly a unregistered aircraft whithout a licence and fill it with explosives and then do some grief somewhere with it, how is this bull**** going to help air safety?????????
What a load of Bolloks!!!!!! If this thing happens I'm afraid I will be flying about the country without a license, as this is an absolute farce and I refuse to be part of it!!!!!!!!!!!!...
I know you CASA bods are reading these forums (looking for an easy kill!!!) so you better take note of this.... And you wonder why people go out and break rules and regs. this is just another push to get rid of pilots and GA. It helps no one other than you gov bods that really don't have a clue.
BLOODY DISGUSTING!!!!
What a load of Bolloks!!!!!! If this thing happens I'm afraid I will be flying about the country without a license, as this is an absolute farce and I refuse to be part of it!!!!!!!!!!!!...
I know you CASA bods are reading these forums (looking for an easy kill!!!) so you better take note of this.... And you wonder why people go out and break rules and regs. this is just another push to get rid of pilots and GA. It helps no one other than you gov bods that really don't have a clue.
BLOODY DISGUSTING!!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne
Age: 41
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not so much the money that bothers me, it's more the fact that the government wants to have access to all my personal details ie fingerprints.
Surely a truck filled with explosives would create more damage than a C-152. Why not background check and fingerprint all truck drivers as well? And while their at it they might as well do the same for all car drivers.
I'm starting to get the feeling we don't live in a free country anymore
Surely a truck filled with explosives would create more damage than a C-152. Why not background check and fingerprint all truck drivers as well? And while their at it they might as well do the same for all car drivers.
I'm starting to get the feeling we don't live in a free country anymore
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As everybody that has posted thus far has so clearly described, security in the aviation sense in Oz is a complete farce. The regional airport situation is a classic as is the Goon Show at our capital city airports.
I can't take a pair of nail clippers into the cabin but I can take my pen!. Thirty years or so ago the Australian Public (thru the Government of the time) taught me how to kill somebody with my pen
, just imagine the mess I could make of you with a nail clipper
This licence thing is purely a bureaucratic kneejerk reaction and it just demonstrates how out of touch these people are. Only recently CASA went through the process of re-issuing our licences and medical certificates to comply with the ICAO requirements. There has not been any further change to those (ICAO) document requirements. Let us also not forget the headlong rush to "harmonise" with ICAO either.
I am sure we (aviators and LAME's) will try to reason and rationalise with these 'people' , however I fear that in the end some sort of civil disobedience will have to take place. If as I believe it will come to that, then it will have my support.
Disco Stu
I can't take a pair of nail clippers into the cabin but I can take my pen!. Thirty years or so ago the Australian Public (thru the Government of the time) taught me how to kill somebody with my pen
, just imagine the mess I could make of you with a nail clipper This licence thing is purely a bureaucratic kneejerk reaction and it just demonstrates how out of touch these people are. Only recently CASA went through the process of re-issuing our licences and medical certificates to comply with the ICAO requirements. There has not been any further change to those (ICAO) document requirements. Let us also not forget the headlong rush to "harmonise" with ICAO either.
I am sure we (aviators and LAME's) will try to reason and rationalise with these 'people' , however I fear that in the end some sort of civil disobedience will have to take place. If as I believe it will come to that, then it will have my support.
Disco Stu
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne,Vic,Australia
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
This is b*lls**
It can be assumed that this check will be
Criminal - As per the form filled in - computer check
Scorpions - NAK (nothing adverse known) - computer check
Photo - as per DL or passport
Not $200
So maybe Fedpol should investigate the people who recommended this and who they recommended to do it for corrupt practices.
It can be assumed that this check will be
Criminal - As per the form filled in - computer check
Scorpions - NAK (nothing adverse known) - computer check
Photo - as per DL or passport
Not $200
So maybe Fedpol should investigate the people who recommended this and who they recommended to do it for corrupt practices.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Under the Equator
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for all Pilots to stick together for once.
Refuse to pay the $200.
If the Govt. wants a security check for political reasons, fine. They pay for it.
As Azimuth siad: Why not check Truckies as well?.
This is something for AOPA to run with.
C'mon AOPA, you want to keep my membership and attract others, put some runs on the board and start a campaign of non-compliance.
Refuse to pay the $200.
If the Govt. wants a security check for political reasons, fine. They pay for it.
As Azimuth siad: Why not check Truckies as well?.
This is something for AOPA to run with.
C'mon AOPA, you want to keep my membership and attract others, put some runs on the board and start a campaign of non-compliance.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Queensland
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sport Licence Vs PPL
I believe that AUF Licence holders will NOT be subject to this check.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a Gazelle can either be registered as a sport aircraft or be VH registered. I am sure there are others also.
So, I pays me 200 bucks, gets me new licence with photo appended and walk out to me VH reg Gazelle accompanied by my AUF colleague who walks to his non VH registered Gazelle parked next to mine.
The only difference between us is that he has 200 bucks in his pocket to buy/ build a bomb.
Why am I a potential terrorist and he is not?
I was alerted to this by the yanks, not AOPA here. The yanks cannot believe we are letting it get through.
MR
Correct me if I'm wrong but a Gazelle can either be registered as a sport aircraft or be VH registered. I am sure there are others also.
So, I pays me 200 bucks, gets me new licence with photo appended and walk out to me VH reg Gazelle accompanied by my AUF colleague who walks to his non VH registered Gazelle parked next to mine.
The only difference between us is that he has 200 bucks in his pocket to buy/ build a bomb.
Why am I a potential terrorist and he is not?
I was alerted to this by the yanks, not AOPA here. The yanks cannot believe we are letting it get through.
MR
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rather than divide the aviation community over GA v AUF paying for a security check we should be drawing a comparison between a C152 full of explosive and a delivery van. Which would cause the most damage? Why aren't all drivers undergoing security checks?
If we dwell on the exemption of sports aviation the reaction from the govt is likely to be 'Oh.. missed them. We'll charge them too'
If we dwell on the exemption of sports aviation the reaction from the govt is likely to be 'Oh.. missed them. We'll charge them too'
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Queensland
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm. I could say, well why shouldn't they be charged! But I wont. What I was trying to point out was the stupidity of the Govt thinking that sports aviation can do no harm. I'm sure they only reason they have not been captured is that they do not come under the influence of CASA. I am ceratin if they could find a way to slug them they would.
Having said that, I agree entirely with your point. But where does it end? Do we test bus, truck, train and taxi drivers? What about the bloke who drives the Manly Ferry? If you say yes then we are going to end up in a police state are we not.
What's a police check going to find on your kids if they fly or my 16 year old who does fly? ****** all. It is all political claptrap, as I'm sure you agree. The frustrating thing is we are virtually powerless to do anything. The public will think it's a great idea. How liitle they really know!
MR
Having said that, I agree entirely with your point. But where does it end? Do we test bus, truck, train and taxi drivers? What about the bloke who drives the Manly Ferry? If you say yes then we are going to end up in a police state are we not.
What's a police check going to find on your kids if they fly or my 16 year old who does fly? ****** all. It is all political claptrap, as I'm sure you agree. The frustrating thing is we are virtually powerless to do anything. The public will think it's a great idea. How liitle they really know!
MR
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really does make me wonder exatly what I get for my tax contributuion these days.
The whole issue of security that has been foisted on the country has been a joke, the 'Be Alert' fridge magnet campaign, the constant political "I'm stronger than you are on national security" by both sides of politics and the rather shamless campaign, again by both sides of poitics to see who could show the most sympathy after Bali Bombing, have, in my opinion, done absolutley bu**er all for actually securing the nation.
As a nation we have let our political leaders take us down the garden path, with a "Trust Us, were the government" approach.
If the government wants national security, and especially if the government wants to make it an election issue to prove thay are doing something, they should use consolidate revenue, i.e. tax, to pay for it.
At the very, very least, the government MUST explain why it considers pilots a security risk. The brief comments on the websit tell us were up for $200 but can't explain why.
The government only seems to say "national security" to bring in some uselsss user pays scheme and Australians gulibly fall for it.
Many people of this thread have commented on regional aviation security, you may also like to look at the Howard governments effectivness in banning guns to see how useful our national security actually is.
We need to refuse to pay it and make a good media issue out of it. Unfortunately our rather fragmented industry does not have an umbrella organisation with political clout to employ effective tactics.
RMA
The whole issue of security that has been foisted on the country has been a joke, the 'Be Alert' fridge magnet campaign, the constant political "I'm stronger than you are on national security" by both sides of politics and the rather shamless campaign, again by both sides of poitics to see who could show the most sympathy after Bali Bombing, have, in my opinion, done absolutley bu**er all for actually securing the nation.
As a nation we have let our political leaders take us down the garden path, with a "Trust Us, were the government" approach.
If the government wants national security, and especially if the government wants to make it an election issue to prove thay are doing something, they should use consolidate revenue, i.e. tax, to pay for it.
At the very, very least, the government MUST explain why it considers pilots a security risk. The brief comments on the websit tell us were up for $200 but can't explain why.
The government only seems to say "national security" to bring in some uselsss user pays scheme and Australians gulibly fall for it.
Many people of this thread have commented on regional aviation security, you may also like to look at the Howard governments effectivness in banning guns to see how useful our national security actually is.
We need to refuse to pay it and make a good media issue out of it. Unfortunately our rather fragmented industry does not have an umbrella organisation with political clout to employ effective tactics.
RMA
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What would this measure actually do to prevent a 9/11 type event?
Sweet F A.
The folks at our maintenance base are still laughing at crews for being obliged to get ASIC's.
They are airside everyday wandering about with tools etc and require nothing.
Sweet F A.
The folks at our maintenance base are still laughing at crews for being obliged to get ASIC's.
They are airside everyday wandering about with tools etc and require nothing.