2003 cadets will be employed by Air North as First Officers on Brasilias
Props are for boats!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: An Asian Hub
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Id rather use a Ski Mask and a Shotgun Capt Caveman than try and keep payments up on a loan for that amount of money. Something tells me you wouldnt get Housing loan rates on an Education loan.
If you have more info on cheaper rates for education loans, Im all ears? May come in handy for a Type rating !
Sheep
If you have more info on cheaper rates for education loans, Im all ears? May come in handy for a Type rating !
Sheep
Nunc est bibendum
Sheep, most parents have more than $100K equity in the house. Thats one avenue. They can also guarantee a loan for the $100K. The Home loan obviously is at about 6%. The other way I've seen as low as 8%. Difference of about $2K over a year! Not a big deal really.
If you have someone to be a guarantor, most banks will fall over themselves to give you a good rate- especially if you are going to be a pilot. They see big mortgages and so on in the future. It just takes research.
A mate who did the cadetships parents certainly aren't 'wealthy'. They did have equity in the house though!
If you have someone to be a guarantor, most banks will fall over themselves to give you a good rate- especially if you are going to be a pilot. They see big mortgages and so on in the future. It just takes research.
A mate who did the cadetships parents certainly aren't 'wealthy'. They did have equity in the house though!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North son, I say go North..........
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I came in a bulls roar of getting Mummy to fund my flying and/or to guarantee a loan. No it wasn't a cadetship (I coulda been so lucky). A very good instructor talked me out of it and told me to go and get a job...
Now i'm certainly not flying heavy metal, not really flying anything but I love what I do.
The frustrating thing about using mummy and daddy is that when it goes pear shapped you take them with you.
Mmm totally irrelevant to the topic but...
Now i'm certainly not flying heavy metal, not really flying anything but I love what I do.
The frustrating thing about using mummy and daddy is that when it goes pear shapped you take them with you.
Mmm totally irrelevant to the topic but...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sydney
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Many Cadets have to slug out the 100k from the bank loan, so don’t just assume that its for the rich !
Secondly, a friend of mine went for an QF interview , He was 25years old, 2000+ hours, degree, all the QF minimums.
Told to come back with more world experiance. WTF ????
and 17 year old cadet has got this ?
The QF pilot recuiting people was most likely cadets to...... :P
hmmm the pot calling the kettle black here.
GeeBeeZee
Secondly, a friend of mine went for an QF interview , He was 25years old, 2000+ hours, degree, all the QF minimums.
Told to come back with more world experiance. WTF ????
and 17 year old cadet has got this ?
The QF pilot recuiting people was most likely cadets to...... :P
hmmm the pot calling the kettle black here.
GeeBeeZee
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I have flown with both cadets and direct entry GA guys in the other seat, and I must say MOST of the time (8/10) it is the cadet with the better and more professional attitude towards the job.
This illusion that flying single pilot GA below 10,000ft is even remotely similar to airline operations is b*ll****. Whether joining as a cadet, or out of piston operations GA, once you join the learning experience starts again from scratch.
I have found the most dangerous guys tend to be the ones from GA who think that because of their background they are a cut above the next guy who might be a cadet.
Remember the group of guys who thought it would be funny to run a competition to see who could do the least amount of work on an LA sector......
btw....Yes I joined out of GA too
This illusion that flying single pilot GA below 10,000ft is even remotely similar to airline operations is b*ll****. Whether joining as a cadet, or out of piston operations GA, once you join the learning experience starts again from scratch.
I have found the most dangerous guys tend to be the ones from GA who think that because of their background they are a cut above the next guy who might be a cadet.
Remember the group of guys who thought it would be funny to run a competition to see who could do the least amount of work on an LA sector......
btw....Yes I joined out of GA too
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: aus
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geebee, Lancer's hit the nail on the head.
As for the example of your mate - I've met 30 year olds who behave like pubescent teenagers, and similarly have met 17 year olds who were 'born middle-aged'. What of it?
2000 hours and a degree by no means on its own guarantees maturity, stability and/or the ability to interact in a multi-crew environment whilst managing aeroplane, passengers and crew. Nor does being 17 years old on its own automatically preclude the above.
Just a thought...
As for the example of your mate - I've met 30 year olds who behave like pubescent teenagers, and similarly have met 17 year olds who were 'born middle-aged'. What of it?
2000 hours and a degree by no means on its own guarantees maturity, stability and/or the ability to interact in a multi-crew environment whilst managing aeroplane, passengers and crew. Nor does being 17 years old on its own automatically preclude the above.
Just a thought...
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Me again!... Just wanted to also say that I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. Just telling you guys how I've lived it from my end.
I suppose you make do with what you've got. And if you can get straight in then you bute! If not...well... you know the drill by now.
Hope this GA experience that I'm getting doesn't turn me into a crap pilot eh..!.
Beer o' clock..
I suppose you make do with what you've got. And if you can get straight in then you bute! If not...well... you know the drill by now.
Hope this GA experience that I'm getting doesn't turn me into a crap pilot eh..!.
Beer o' clock..
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
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omg - YOU BITTER TWISTED FREAKS!!! sOME OF YOU GA PEOPLE NEED TO GET OVER YOUR OWN SELF IMPORTANCE.
I was going to say something constructive, but alas, I will stick with the stupid above mentioned statement instead!
BTW it does seem as though some of the biased "irrational" cadet bashers are wishing and or waiting for a cadet to bend a plane just to prove a point. Perish the thought of anyone bending a plane and turning the pax into fertiliser.
I was going to say something constructive, but alas, I will stick with the stupid above mentioned statement instead!
BTW it does seem as though some of the biased "irrational" cadet bashers are wishing and or waiting for a cadet to bend a plane just to prove a point. Perish the thought of anyone bending a plane and turning the pax into fertiliser.
Join Date: May 2003
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I wouldn't like to be one of these Air North cadets knowing all the sentiments out there.
I can imagine it now, they rock into Rourkes for a beer and have half the pub gunning for them, not to mention probably half the bar staff!! In the red corner........!!!! Doubt they'd be able to find a neutral place to drink?!
I can imagine it now, they rock into Rourkes for a beer and have half the pub gunning for them, not to mention probably half the bar staff!! In the red corner........!!!! Doubt they'd be able to find a neutral place to drink?!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Actually I think it would put them in good sted for QF - it will help them get a thick skin for the percentage (albeit small percentage) of cadet haters, general weirdo's, and anally retentive individuals who reside in QF and unfortunately make flying what it is not meant to be.
People go on about how they deserve a job in QF over cadets because they have put in the hard yards - well in case you havent realised QF employs from 3 sources usually - GA, Air Force and Cadets. I suspect its lucky they do - can you imagine an entire Airline full of any one particular group ? Imagine an entire Airline of Air Force people, everyone would trip over the ego's. Imagine an Airline full of G/A people - you would all be whinging over who deserved what because some of you had done "harder" yards - and imagine an Airline full of cadets - well that would be just as painful to.
So i think that it is lucky QF employ from all 3 sources to create a balance.
And finally for all you Cadet haters, those who think Cadets have no experience and well, generally suck, rather than criticise them and be negative, why not be proactive and help pass on useful knowledge and tips - try to help them gain some of this experience you all seem to have in vast quantities - I am sure the majority are willing and keen to learn.
People go on about how they deserve a job in QF over cadets because they have put in the hard yards - well in case you havent realised QF employs from 3 sources usually - GA, Air Force and Cadets. I suspect its lucky they do - can you imagine an entire Airline full of any one particular group ? Imagine an entire Airline of Air Force people, everyone would trip over the ego's. Imagine an Airline full of G/A people - you would all be whinging over who deserved what because some of you had done "harder" yards - and imagine an Airline full of cadets - well that would be just as painful to.
So i think that it is lucky QF employ from all 3 sources to create a balance.
And finally for all you Cadet haters, those who think Cadets have no experience and well, generally suck, rather than criticise them and be negative, why not be proactive and help pass on useful knowledge and tips - try to help them gain some of this experience you all seem to have in vast quantities - I am sure the majority are willing and keen to learn.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I can't believe you guys! I am a hard working GA pilot and i know cadets. they are just as hard working as any other pilot, just because they got a lucky break doesn't mean that they are pompus pricks. And to say that they just walk into the job is another stupid comment, they are put through many tests and assesments of their performance to see if they are up to the required standard, if they don't meet this standard then they are out! I think alot of the people writing on here are frustrated GA pilots who are stuck there and are jealous of cadets! and i think its pathetic!
Mole,
I think that what gets up most guys noses is that the minimum requirements for a FO job in Airnorth are
Brasilia F/O
ATPL or subjects
2000 hours Total Time
500 hours Multi-command
Turbine Not Required
100 hours night
200 hours IFR
and the cadets are getting jobs with 200 hours TT!! Makes a joke out of the whole thing in reality. You could be the sharpest guy in the world but you are still a 200 hour pilot, who would struggle to get a gig in Darwin in the first place!
Can we have a point of view from any of the Bras Captains on this topic by any chance??? Or maybe someone in Airnorth or QF who wishes to enlighten us as to the benefits of this doing this?? I suppose QF paying $$$$$$$$$$$$$ is one answer.
Next question is why didn't they go to Sunstate or Easterns just out of curiosity??????
I think that what gets up most guys noses is that the minimum requirements for a FO job in Airnorth are
Brasilia F/O
ATPL or subjects
2000 hours Total Time
500 hours Multi-command
Turbine Not Required
100 hours night
200 hours IFR
and the cadets are getting jobs with 200 hours TT!! Makes a joke out of the whole thing in reality. You could be the sharpest guy in the world but you are still a 200 hour pilot, who would struggle to get a gig in Darwin in the first place!
Can we have a point of view from any of the Bras Captains on this topic by any chance??? Or maybe someone in Airnorth or QF who wishes to enlighten us as to the benefits of this doing this?? I suppose QF paying $$$$$$$$$$$$$ is one answer.
Next question is why didn't they go to Sunstate or Easterns just out of curiosity??????
Join Date: Jun 2003
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hi neville
Not lodging an opinion either way here, but perhaps one of the things that distinguish a GA applicant from a Qantas cadet graduate in this instance is the fact that by the end of the programme, Qantas (and by extension Air North in this case) has a VERY good idea of the standard to which the cadet graduate flies, his/her personal and behavioural qualities and attributes, multi-crew potential (they do a few weeks' LOFT as part of the course, including a test with a TFO) and ability to learn/pick up new things.
By putting them through what is essentially a three year course in just under a year, any deficiencies in the applicant are bound to surface fairly quickly, and applicants who don't quite make the grade can and will be told to rectify things (via being sent out to the general industry or otherwise) before they proceed any further with them. Assessments of each dual instructional flight are compiled and reviewed regularly by Qantas, and certainly the flight tests are about as thorough as they come. To that end, by the end of the course, the amount of data that Qantas has on the cadet pilots (and can forward to Air North) is more than enough to determine their competency, and I guess is as strong as seeing '2000 hours' on the application form of a candidate you know absolutely nothing about beyond some previous employers, a curt flying training history and a few dutifully noted 'hobbies and interests'. 2000 hours is one way of demonstrating competency, achievement and potential in flying - graduating from a closely monitored and supervised cadetship is another. I don't think anyone underestimates the commitment shown by those doing the hard yards in GA, nor does a cadetship (imho) in any way pretend to mimic that commitment.
Bear in mind that all I'm talking about here is competency to do the job to (and hopefully above) the standard required by the company. So, to answer your question, it gives Air North a source of pilots of a demonstrated standard, nothing more, nothing less.
ED
Not lodging an opinion either way here, but perhaps one of the things that distinguish a GA applicant from a Qantas cadet graduate in this instance is the fact that by the end of the programme, Qantas (and by extension Air North in this case) has a VERY good idea of the standard to which the cadet graduate flies, his/her personal and behavioural qualities and attributes, multi-crew potential (they do a few weeks' LOFT as part of the course, including a test with a TFO) and ability to learn/pick up new things.
By putting them through what is essentially a three year course in just under a year, any deficiencies in the applicant are bound to surface fairly quickly, and applicants who don't quite make the grade can and will be told to rectify things (via being sent out to the general industry or otherwise) before they proceed any further with them. Assessments of each dual instructional flight are compiled and reviewed regularly by Qantas, and certainly the flight tests are about as thorough as they come. To that end, by the end of the course, the amount of data that Qantas has on the cadet pilots (and can forward to Air North) is more than enough to determine their competency, and I guess is as strong as seeing '2000 hours' on the application form of a candidate you know absolutely nothing about beyond some previous employers, a curt flying training history and a few dutifully noted 'hobbies and interests'. 2000 hours is one way of demonstrating competency, achievement and potential in flying - graduating from a closely monitored and supervised cadetship is another. I don't think anyone underestimates the commitment shown by those doing the hard yards in GA, nor does a cadetship (imho) in any way pretend to mimic that commitment.
Bear in mind that all I'm talking about here is competency to do the job to (and hopefully above) the standard required by the company. So, to answer your question, it gives Air North a source of pilots of a demonstrated standard, nothing more, nothing less.
ED
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I thought that the reason one worked hard was so that the end of the day, with goals achieved or, you can sit back and enjoy the fruits of your hard work. Not get all bitter and twisted and feel like you are owed something.
Surely if you think a cadet has had an easy run then you would pity them because they can't reflect and have the same level of satisfaction as yourself. The journey is a BIG part.
I know a few cadets, all top blokes and i'm sure they'd have "made it" anyway. They were good mates before and still are.
Once you start comparing yourself to others you're either gonna get bitter or gloat. Its not a good idea, Why can't people just be happy with their lot?
Surely if you think a cadet has had an easy run then you would pity them because they can't reflect and have the same level of satisfaction as yourself. The journey is a BIG part.
I know a few cadets, all top blokes and i'm sure they'd have "made it" anyway. They were good mates before and still are.
Once you start comparing yourself to others you're either gonna get bitter or gloat. Its not a good idea, Why can't people just be happy with their lot?
The Cadetship Rocks.........!
If it was available (to externals when I did my training) I would have jumped at the chance. To fly jets is all I have ever wanted to do. Alas, it was not avialable then and now that I am approaching 1000 hours multi command time, even if it was available it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
My gripe is not with you cadets, however, being the well balanced people that I believe you would have been selected as, you will understand my (and many others) frustration at the lost opportunity that I have worked very hard towards for many years now, at least until I get my direct entry interview with QF.
I think it would be fair to say that some of the frustration shown on this forum from us GA guys is nothing personal, keep that in mind, and good luck with your careers.
Willie
My gripe is not with you cadets, however, being the well balanced people that I believe you would have been selected as, you will understand my (and many others) frustration at the lost opportunity that I have worked very hard towards for many years now, at least until I get my direct entry interview with QF.
I think it would be fair to say that some of the frustration shown on this forum from us GA guys is nothing personal, keep that in mind, and good luck with your careers.
Willie