Airline pilot pay
Props are for boats!
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Hey Thinking pilot,
I was on around 1000 aud/week during my short Airline Career as a Twotter Captain. or around 2000 usd a month. But that changed when the Aussie dollar climbed again. But now Im on more in a King Air. But it aint Airline, so one has to do everything. ahhhhh I miss the day of just signing the loadsheet mmmmmmmm
Jets? what jets? anybody mention jets in here...?
But it all depends on where you are flying and how much your paid. Ive heard of Twotter Captains getting 8-10k usd/ month in Yemen tax free. Well thye can have that........Unless they rang me ofcourse
But these jobs seem unatainable unless you have stacks of experience. Which I winder is how much?
I dunno Im getting sick of O/S ops how about you Air Services?
I was on around 1000 aud/week during my short Airline Career as a Twotter Captain. or around 2000 usd a month. But that changed when the Aussie dollar climbed again. But now Im on more in a King Air. But it aint Airline, so one has to do everything. ahhhhh I miss the day of just signing the loadsheet mmmmmmmm
Jets? what jets? anybody mention jets in here...?
But it all depends on where you are flying and how much your paid. Ive heard of Twotter Captains getting 8-10k usd/ month in Yemen tax free. Well thye can have that........Unless they rang me ofcourse
But these jobs seem unatainable unless you have stacks of experience. Which I winder is how much?
I dunno Im getting sick of O/S ops how about you Air Services?
Join Date: Oct 2001
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I am a teacher (8 years teaching) and $1500 a FORTNIGHT for a 2nd year teacher is more like it! ITCZ may have just got a little mixed up so lets be friends everyone and get back to the other part of the thred!!!
Cheers. PA
Cheers. PA
The figures you quote just show that QF and AN pilots were overpaid - it's as simple as that.
How can someone be overpaid?
Compared to what? One could say that the other group was/is UNDERpaid.
I suppose someone could be considered overpaid if there was a mix up in the wages department- oh or if said person was in management.
Surely it is less subjective than you point out.
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Hey Sheep Guts,
Im the guy you called last weekend. Enjoy Mun!
I couldn't live on $1000 per week as a career salary, no way - unless maybe I planned to marry someone who was loaded.
The truth is that $1000 per week is a significantly less than a QF international Flightie brings home. I think 70K is a more realistic baseline for someone who loves his/her flying.
Algerhorn
Im the guy you called last weekend. Enjoy Mun!
I couldn't live on $1000 per week as a career salary, no way - unless maybe I planned to marry someone who was loaded.
The truth is that $1000 per week is a significantly less than a QF international Flightie brings home. I think 70K is a more realistic baseline for someone who loves his/her flying.
Algerhorn
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Gnadenburg WRONG! Virgin Pilot's have not created a monster so please try and raise your standard mate. The company creates the standard and we either accept and fly, or reject and do something else. Blaming the pilots is farcical.
Nzer, the AN and QF pilot's were NEVER over paid. QF has been making plenty of money for a long time and AN were hopelessly mis-managed (it's as simple as that). Company mis-management has NOTHING to do with pilot's.
There are plenty of good airlines paying good money to tech crew and their balance sheets are just fine.
ALL teachers, cops and nurses deserve better pay. When resources start to run a bit tight, we may see some change of attitude by the various govt's.
Polling a piece of metal around the sky with 180 pax even on the easiest of days requires careful planning, judgement and common sense (to name a few attributes). How do you place a value on the responsibility of delivering pax safely to their destination? I don't know, but I do know it is worth considerably more than $1000 per week. The degradation of pay will ultimately see airline management pay the highest price for their miserly behaviour. Consumate professionals with many thousands of hours will leave the industry leaving behind a knowledge and skills vacuum. The same would apply to ATC and engineering.
The $ sign pushes us to perform to our highest standard and keep abreast of modernisation, change, new technology etc. Take away the $ and just watch the standard slip out the back door. Take away the incentive, take away the standard. The two are inextricably linked.
Nzer, the AN and QF pilot's were NEVER over paid. QF has been making plenty of money for a long time and AN were hopelessly mis-managed (it's as simple as that). Company mis-management has NOTHING to do with pilot's.
There are plenty of good airlines paying good money to tech crew and their balance sheets are just fine.
ALL teachers, cops and nurses deserve better pay. When resources start to run a bit tight, we may see some change of attitude by the various govt's.
Polling a piece of metal around the sky with 180 pax even on the easiest of days requires careful planning, judgement and common sense (to name a few attributes). How do you place a value on the responsibility of delivering pax safely to their destination? I don't know, but I do know it is worth considerably more than $1000 per week. The degradation of pay will ultimately see airline management pay the highest price for their miserly behaviour. Consumate professionals with many thousands of hours will leave the industry leaving behind a knowledge and skills vacuum. The same would apply to ATC and engineering.
The $ sign pushes us to perform to our highest standard and keep abreast of modernisation, change, new technology etc. Take away the $ and just watch the standard slip out the back door. Take away the incentive, take away the standard. The two are inextricably linked.
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I should have become a teacher!!!!
$1500 a fortnight, after only 2 years
and here i have been flying for 7 years worked my way up through the ranks, spent 10's of thousands of dollars to get the qual's, which can all be lost if say a rock flicks up in my eye,
Not to mention that after 2 years i was still only earning say $1000 bucks a fortnight and flying planes through all sorts of weather, even having my alternate close on me on a couple of occasions leaving me in a slightly dangerouse predicament, no were to go and no fuel to go there anyway (got to love it when the met man doesnt forcast the weather properly)
why are other professions paid more than us, when they have a lower initial outlay, less risks in there day to day job, and a hell of a lot less responsability,
One thing about G.A pilots that every one forgets is they share the skys with the big boys, it is unlikley but if they stuff up they can still endanger 400pax, maybe not on there plane
The reason pilots are paid so little for there jobs, is because of companys like virgin, who come into the industry and undercut everyones ticket prices, to do this, they pay everyone in the company less and cut costs everywhere, but dont worry its not just in the airline industry bankrunners do that to some dodgy companys sell ICUS to subsidise there runs, and then when they need a new pilot the guy that has been paying $150 a day to fly is thrilled to be offered $100 a day to take command. and doesn't even realise that he has just stuffed the industry that little bit more.
The only way to combat this is to educate pilots not to fly for peanuts, never accept less than the award, EBA's are never going to be better for the pilot than the company or companys wouldn't impliment them.
For this reason, I WILL NOT work for Virgin or any other company like that, it is a stand i have taken to do my part, no one else need do the same, and yes i could be flying a 737 around but hey its a stand i think is required, if only more people would take this stand we would all get paid more.
I know what i am doing is fruitless because there are 100's of pilots out there that would (and have even tried to) stab me in the back to get my job, whilst undercutting my price and it is scum like this that ruin it for the rest, mostly guys/girls with no principles, so yep i am destine to never work for an airline in australia but hey principles are principles and i am not breaking mine.
I have never paid for an endorsment that my employer has needed me to have and never will ( signing a bond is fine as long as no money changes hands unless the bond is broken) and this is another pet hate. were bloody pilots, they need us, if they want us to have some qual specific to the company well hey thats for them to sort out.
If pilots just stood there ground a bit things would have to change.
well thats my rant finnished i hope there are some other pilots out there that refuse to work for the conditions that some operators are offering. My job is fine at the moment, award wage and i enjoy it so this is were i sit till i am able to land a job with a company willing to pay what pilots are worth.
oh yeah and there is no such thing as overpaid, if you are getting paid more than everyone else you will work harder than everyone else so you keep getting paid more, or just because you appreciate it.
So i guess Nzer will be flying a 737 around for $30k pa because its all automated now days, couldn't need any more money than a servo attendant, who may i say can earn $32k with no initial outlay, or real training. definatley something wrong with the payscale
Duke
$1500 a fortnight, after only 2 years
and here i have been flying for 7 years worked my way up through the ranks, spent 10's of thousands of dollars to get the qual's, which can all be lost if say a rock flicks up in my eye,Not to mention that after 2 years i was still only earning say $1000 bucks a fortnight and flying planes through all sorts of weather, even having my alternate close on me on a couple of occasions leaving me in a slightly dangerouse predicament, no were to go and no fuel to go there anyway (got to love it when the met man doesnt forcast the weather properly)
why are other professions paid more than us, when they have a lower initial outlay, less risks in there day to day job, and a hell of a lot less responsability,
One thing about G.A pilots that every one forgets is they share the skys with the big boys, it is unlikley but if they stuff up they can still endanger 400pax, maybe not on there plane
The reason pilots are paid so little for there jobs, is because of companys like virgin, who come into the industry and undercut everyones ticket prices, to do this, they pay everyone in the company less and cut costs everywhere, but dont worry its not just in the airline industry bankrunners do that to some dodgy companys sell ICUS to subsidise there runs, and then when they need a new pilot the guy that has been paying $150 a day to fly is thrilled to be offered $100 a day to take command. and doesn't even realise that he has just stuffed the industry that little bit more.
The only way to combat this is to educate pilots not to fly for peanuts, never accept less than the award, EBA's are never going to be better for the pilot than the company or companys wouldn't impliment them.
For this reason, I WILL NOT work for Virgin or any other company like that, it is a stand i have taken to do my part, no one else need do the same, and yes i could be flying a 737 around but hey its a stand i think is required, if only more people would take this stand we would all get paid more.
I know what i am doing is fruitless because there are 100's of pilots out there that would (and have even tried to) stab me in the back to get my job, whilst undercutting my price and it is scum like this that ruin it for the rest, mostly guys/girls with no principles, so yep i am destine to never work for an airline in australia but hey principles are principles and i am not breaking mine.
I have never paid for an endorsment that my employer has needed me to have and never will ( signing a bond is fine as long as no money changes hands unless the bond is broken) and this is another pet hate. were bloody pilots, they need us, if they want us to have some qual specific to the company well hey thats for them to sort out.
If pilots just stood there ground a bit things would have to change.
well thats my rant finnished i hope there are some other pilots out there that refuse to work for the conditions that some operators are offering. My job is fine at the moment, award wage and i enjoy it so this is were i sit till i am able to land a job with a company willing to pay what pilots are worth.
oh yeah and there is no such thing as overpaid, if you are getting paid more than everyone else you will work harder than everyone else so you keep getting paid more, or just because you appreciate it.
So i guess Nzer will be flying a 737 around for $30k pa because its all automated now days, couldn't need any more money than a servo attendant, who may i say can earn $32k with no initial outlay, or real training. definatley something wrong with the payscale
Duke
Last edited by duke of duchess; 7th Oct 2003 at 00:52.
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ICTZ, Yes as Mr Hat (Ithink) says, there is some truth in what you say, but a teacher earning 1500 a week after 2 years in the professson? I have a close relative a teacher and she is lucky to crack 35 after ten years in the business,
I asked her and she said the on ly teachers making that would be principals of BIG private schools. I posted elsewhere that a salariued GP gets 70 grand for a 50 hour week at a shopfront clinic. No shortage of takers there either, just too many GPs and not enough jobs.
Take a look at Torres posting elsewhere on pay and conditons. This is the age of enterprise bargaining, I don't like it, but that's what it is. Isn't that what we pilots wanted back in 89. Yep it is, and we got it. Not right then, but down the track everybody got it.
Now we're whining because Virgin came along and offered a pitiful salary. Any shortage of takers? No, and there won't be. Whose fault is it? Not the pilots who take the jobs, not the pilots who went back to work in 89. It'sa the labour market in 2003. Too many people for too few jobs. Torres talked of union strength and tight labour markets being hand in hand, and they are. When you have close to 10% unemployment, union membership is at an all time low and they can do nothing for you.
I said on another thread that employees only get what the boss can afford to give them. If he can't afford it then they won't get it. He'll try youon, say he can't and eventually you might have a win, but only if he wants you to. If the business can't afford it, then you don't get it.
Might be newsd you don't want to hear, but they're facts. Yes we're our own worst enemies, but so is every other person. They want to eat, and they take what's offered. If they don't, somebody else will. Sad but true. Unions can't help.
I don't have the answers.
The only employees who are safe are politicians who have the remuneration tribunal to look after them. They take the members out to lunch tell them how much the pollies need, and the tribunal finds a way to accom odate without having us feel too bad about it. And who cares if you do feel bad anyway.
As for the question, what is an airline pilot worth? Well we'd all like to think 10 grand a week, but ultimately it comes down to what is on offer and how many are prepared to accep t the offer.
I asked her and she said the on ly teachers making that would be principals of BIG private schools. I posted elsewhere that a salariued GP gets 70 grand for a 50 hour week at a shopfront clinic. No shortage of takers there either, just too many GPs and not enough jobs.
Take a look at Torres posting elsewhere on pay and conditons. This is the age of enterprise bargaining, I don't like it, but that's what it is. Isn't that what we pilots wanted back in 89. Yep it is, and we got it. Not right then, but down the track everybody got it.
Now we're whining because Virgin came along and offered a pitiful salary. Any shortage of takers? No, and there won't be. Whose fault is it? Not the pilots who take the jobs, not the pilots who went back to work in 89. It'sa the labour market in 2003. Too many people for too few jobs. Torres talked of union strength and tight labour markets being hand in hand, and they are. When you have close to 10% unemployment, union membership is at an all time low and they can do nothing for you.
I said on another thread that employees only get what the boss can afford to give them. If he can't afford it then they won't get it. He'll try youon, say he can't and eventually you might have a win, but only if he wants you to. If the business can't afford it, then you don't get it.
Might be newsd you don't want to hear, but they're facts. Yes we're our own worst enemies, but so is every other person. They want to eat, and they take what's offered. If they don't, somebody else will. Sad but true. Unions can't help.
I don't have the answers.
The only employees who are safe are politicians who have the remuneration tribunal to look after them. They take the members out to lunch tell them how much the pollies need, and the tribunal finds a way to accom odate without having us feel too bad about it. And who cares if you do feel bad anyway.
As for the question, what is an airline pilot worth? Well we'd all like to think 10 grand a week, but ultimately it comes down to what is on offer and how many are prepared to accep t the offer.
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Interested to keep hearing about EBA's in this post
such as this one from duke of duchess
"The only way to combat this is to educate pilots not to fly for peanuts, never accept less than the award, EBA's are never going to be better for the pilot than the company or companys wouldn't impliment them. "
Please forgive my ignorance but my understanding was that an EBA (Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) is negotiated between Employees (I.E. Pilots) and Employers.
A bit of industrial relations knowledge would also inform us that it is above and beyond the award and cannot supply conditions below the award standard.
My experience with EBA's (Both inside and outside aviation) is that they supply a win for both parties.
As for the original question, what was it again? Would I be a school teacher for $1500 per week (no way), no before that, would I accept $1000 per week flying Airlines, Yes, if that was the Industry award wage, but who is offering that? $34K GA I consider myself Lucky! Why? rich in life but not so money (lets face it we all want more money). And I did leave $50K+ job to do what I love.
such as this one from duke of duchess
"The only way to combat this is to educate pilots not to fly for peanuts, never accept less than the award, EBA's are never going to be better for the pilot than the company or companys wouldn't impliment them. "
Please forgive my ignorance but my understanding was that an EBA (Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) is negotiated between Employees (I.E. Pilots) and Employers.
A bit of industrial relations knowledge would also inform us that it is above and beyond the award and cannot supply conditions below the award standard.
My experience with EBA's (Both inside and outside aviation) is that they supply a win for both parties.
As for the original question, what was it again? Would I be a school teacher for $1500 per week (no way), no before that, would I accept $1000 per week flying Airlines, Yes, if that was the Industry award wage, but who is offering that? $34K GA I consider myself Lucky! Why? rich in life but not so money (lets face it we all want more money). And I did leave $50K+ job to do what I love.
Last edited by scrambler; 15th Oct 2003 at 07:04.
