Brindabella Woes...
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melboune
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Hell Yes I Do and Thanks for Asking
Can anyone here, offer up any excuse, other than neglect of duty for simply "forgetting" to put your wheels down. A scenario? anything? come on!
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that accidents are the result of compounded, concurrent and even disjointed circumstances that manifest themselves as one or more events, incidents or an accident.
Two examples of accidents, that resulted in serious damage (in addition to the one to which I previously referred) are:
1. A pilot of a well respected GA company, quite senior and very experienced managed to land an aircraft a long way down a rather foggy cross strip in country NSW. Misjudged ended up in a fence and wrapped the fuse and prop in no. 8 fencing wire. Why. Oh cause he mucked up?
No….. He was in the right seat ICUSing someone else. They were working for a well known freight forwarder who is notorious for exerting direct pressure on pilots for missing out, let alone what financial pressure they exert on the operator. It was foggy. He was scheduled late to the task (night before).
Sack him…. Well no. Better to find out what happened first rather than a kangaroo court of judge jury and executioner. Commandant.
2. A pilot flying a scheduled service in country NSW also manages to land sans wheels on a dark and gloomy night. Forgot, was distracted, bad airmanship?
Yes, Yes, Yes, - Icing conditions forecast. Gear not ice equipped. Night. Raining. Blowing. Multiple traffic. In and out of cloud. More traffic. Where’s the airport? Maynes will screw us if I don’t get in ..there it is…Oh checklist…..What you want me to relay your sarwatch call…..twit why didn’t he do that in the circuit as I did? Where’s the runway, puck its cold -1 must be ice, airspeed is a bit off….it is cold…there’s the runway…got it….floating floating floating………….floating………not floating………..sliding sliding sliding.
Sack him………Well no. better to find out what happened first and make a rational decision that some value can be driven from.
A key point to both cases is a rational decision. Rational, logical, calm and strategic.
In all three cases, the damage bill cost each company about $250,000 a time. Are you best to sweep it under the carpet and sack the bloke or get some value from the experience. Make the organisation a better place for it, make all the crew better pilots for it. The PIC is already a better pilot as a result of it, so should he be a better pilot for you or someone else.
Oh and as for “ I couldn’t live with myself if he was put back on line and made another mistake.” Spare me. Thought I was wrong once, but was mistaken.
Navajo Joe – Eastern (QFlink) DHC8 Captain – good on him
Fog man – Eastern (QFlink) DHC8 FO – onya Flo
Parkes the Chief without wheels – Virgin 737 FO – dumperthedunlopsnexttime
Captain, FO, SO of the “Whistler” in Bangkok – big investigation – on the job
Better not give them a job, as they have screwed up and could make another mistake, and won't I look silly then????? Spare me.
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that accidents are the result of compounded, concurrent and even disjointed circumstances that manifest themselves as one or more events, incidents or an accident.
Two examples of accidents, that resulted in serious damage (in addition to the one to which I previously referred) are:
1. A pilot of a well respected GA company, quite senior and very experienced managed to land an aircraft a long way down a rather foggy cross strip in country NSW. Misjudged ended up in a fence and wrapped the fuse and prop in no. 8 fencing wire. Why. Oh cause he mucked up?
No….. He was in the right seat ICUSing someone else. They were working for a well known freight forwarder who is notorious for exerting direct pressure on pilots for missing out, let alone what financial pressure they exert on the operator. It was foggy. He was scheduled late to the task (night before).
Sack him…. Well no. Better to find out what happened first rather than a kangaroo court of judge jury and executioner. Commandant.
2. A pilot flying a scheduled service in country NSW also manages to land sans wheels on a dark and gloomy night. Forgot, was distracted, bad airmanship?
Yes, Yes, Yes, - Icing conditions forecast. Gear not ice equipped. Night. Raining. Blowing. Multiple traffic. In and out of cloud. More traffic. Where’s the airport? Maynes will screw us if I don’t get in ..there it is…Oh checklist…..What you want me to relay your sarwatch call…..twit why didn’t he do that in the circuit as I did? Where’s the runway, puck its cold -1 must be ice, airspeed is a bit off….it is cold…there’s the runway…got it….floating floating floating………….floating………not floating………..sliding sliding sliding.
Sack him………Well no. better to find out what happened first and make a rational decision that some value can be driven from.
A key point to both cases is a rational decision. Rational, logical, calm and strategic.
In all three cases, the damage bill cost each company about $250,000 a time. Are you best to sweep it under the carpet and sack the bloke or get some value from the experience. Make the organisation a better place for it, make all the crew better pilots for it. The PIC is already a better pilot as a result of it, so should he be a better pilot for you or someone else.
Oh and as for “ I couldn’t live with myself if he was put back on line and made another mistake.” Spare me. Thought I was wrong once, but was mistaken.
Navajo Joe – Eastern (QFlink) DHC8 Captain – good on him
Fog man – Eastern (QFlink) DHC8 FO – onya Flo
Parkes the Chief without wheels – Virgin 737 FO – dumperthedunlopsnexttime
Captain, FO, SO of the “Whistler” in Bangkok – big investigation – on the job
Better not give them a job, as they have screwed up and could make another mistake, and won't I look silly then????? Spare me.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
correction to the previous:
Navajo Joe is no longer employed as a captain with Q-link.
He now wishes to be addressed as "Boeing Joe"
some one is actually trusting him with a jet (haha)
He is a born again Virgin now.
The airline industry will never be the same again
Good on ya "Boeing Joe"
Navajo Joe is no longer employed as a captain with Q-link.
He now wishes to be addressed as "Boeing Joe"
some one is actually trusting him with a jet (haha)
He is a born again Virgin now.
The airline industry will never be the same again
Good on ya "Boeing Joe"
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: nsw
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my point entirely
23 metros.
None of the above scenarios are anything other than what you expect with the job as a professional aviator. The extra training, and licence as a result, allows you to now fly for reward other than just pleasure, and therefore, you can expect all of the scenarios mentioned above, on a daily basis sometimes.
I would suggest you are being paid for the bad days, not the good ones. The days where a combination of elements contribute to a hard days work. This is what separates you from being a private pilot (who has the luxury of staying in bed), and that of a pro who does it for his/her living.
You are also being paid for your ability to judge what is safe and manageable bearing in mind your own limitations.
Just as there are those who have succeeded in their careers since having misjudged their limitations (as youve illustrated above). There are those who have succeeded for having lost their job for merely "standing their ground"
But to the point, in GA, as we all should know, margins are tight. Companies do not have the luxury of large investigative safety sections, whose role it is to analyse discrepancy in company training and operational attitude. The onus IS on you as PIC to act professionally and manage both yourself and aeroplane. To get the job done under a variety of stresses, however, having the fortitude to understand this in NOT achieved at all costs.
Should the pilot go?
Could you afford that kind of future liability after such a cost to your bottom line and reputation?
BIK 11.6
As you could gather, I agree with your sentiments, particularly with regard that shocker "those that have...etc"
None of the above scenarios are anything other than what you expect with the job as a professional aviator. The extra training, and licence as a result, allows you to now fly for reward other than just pleasure, and therefore, you can expect all of the scenarios mentioned above, on a daily basis sometimes.
I would suggest you are being paid for the bad days, not the good ones. The days where a combination of elements contribute to a hard days work. This is what separates you from being a private pilot (who has the luxury of staying in bed), and that of a pro who does it for his/her living.
You are also being paid for your ability to judge what is safe and manageable bearing in mind your own limitations.
Just as there are those who have succeeded in their careers since having misjudged their limitations (as youve illustrated above). There are those who have succeeded for having lost their job for merely "standing their ground"
But to the point, in GA, as we all should know, margins are tight. Companies do not have the luxury of large investigative safety sections, whose role it is to analyse discrepancy in company training and operational attitude. The onus IS on you as PIC to act professionally and manage both yourself and aeroplane. To get the job done under a variety of stresses, however, having the fortitude to understand this in NOT achieved at all costs.
Should the pilot go?
Could you afford that kind of future liability after such a cost to your bottom line and reputation?
BIK 11.6
As you could gather, I agree with your sentiments, particularly with regard that shocker "those that have...etc"
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Sydney
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BIK 116.80
With you all the way.
23 Metro's...............
Interesting to note that ALL those drivers are now employed IN THE MULTI CREW ROLE....perhaps they couldn't cut the mustard in single pilot ops?
Bottom Line.....pilot admits he stuffed up and forgot the wheels. Cost his employer:
1 x aircraft downed unnecessarily
Lost income
Increased insurance costs
Reputation and status
MEGA BUCKS.
Recommended remedial action:
FIRED ON THE SPOT seems just about right in this case!
With you all the way.
23 Metro's...............
Interesting to note that ALL those drivers are now employed IN THE MULTI CREW ROLE....perhaps they couldn't cut the mustard in single pilot ops?
Bottom Line.....pilot admits he stuffed up and forgot the wheels. Cost his employer:
1 x aircraft downed unnecessarily
Lost income
Increased insurance costs
Reputation and status
MEGA BUCKS.
Recommended remedial action:
FIRED ON THE SPOT seems just about right in this case!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Melboune
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No You have missed the point
Why did he forget the wheels? Don't know, don't care. Could not be bother to find out.
Why then, my learnered friends is the company now seeking the services of a PA31 C&T captain. Does this action allude to something.
The company is not the first company to have a craft bent. Happens to them all. ALL.
Clearly the company is not "Airline material" and more relevantly GA - on the pages of this forum that are fitting- when it is not concerned over the significant negative safety culture that has been immediately put in place, and the lack of respect for organisational structure that has been shown by management.
Nothing further your Worship..........Now where is the Tylanol?
Why then, my learnered friends is the company now seeking the services of a PA31 C&T captain. Does this action allude to something.
The company is not the first company to have a craft bent. Happens to them all. ALL.
Clearly the company is not "Airline material" and more relevantly GA - on the pages of this forum that are fitting- when it is not concerned over the significant negative safety culture that has been immediately put in place, and the lack of respect for organisational structure that has been shown by management.
Nothing further your Worship..........Now where is the Tylanol?
Pitch & Break - what a ridiculous statement re: multi crew ops. Are you suggesting that those of us who fly for major airlines are deficient in our abilities i.e unable to "...cut the mustard in single pilot ops...?"
That's a huge stretch by any means of the imagination...
I'd imagine that most pilots would consider flying as a crew member in a multi crew, RPT operation to be a worthwhile goal in their aviation career.
That's a huge stretch by any means of the imagination...
I'd imagine that most pilots would consider flying as a crew member in a multi crew, RPT operation to be a worthwhile goal in their aviation career.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
brindabella woes
Gear up landings are usually avoidable, and are likely when unusual events take place. They are usually caused by people. Like most other accidents. Qantas senior check captains, together with DCA examiners landed an HS 125 jet wheels up at Sydney, many years ago. No-one is immune. Checklists do not always work. A Psychologist from the Farnborough aircraft establishment once told us that of the wheels up landings he investigated, usually the crew had read the checklist, and recited "Gear down, three greens", and then landed without wheels. One captain commented "there's something wrong with the brakes".
Has anyone ever landed without reading the checklist?. I expect you will. What is needed is something that is totally separate from the checklists, and triggered by an unavoidable event.
Simple. When you see a runway in front of you, check wheels!
Make it a habbit. Habbits will still work on the day you are tired, stressed, and confused.. when you forget the important items on the checklist. A well dveeloped habbit will be an automatic double check.
And a pilot who has had a wheels up has had a valuable experience, and should be a better pilot afterwards.
Has anyone ever landed without reading the checklist?. I expect you will. What is needed is something that is totally separate from the checklists, and triggered by an unavoidable event.
Simple. When you see a runway in front of you, check wheels!
Make it a habbit. Habbits will still work on the day you are tired, stressed, and confused.. when you forget the important items on the checklist. A well dveeloped habbit will be an automatic double check.
And a pilot who has had a wheels up has had a valuable experience, and should be a better pilot afterwards.
Recommended remedial action:
The whole point is that "Fired on the spot" IS NOT remedial action, it is revenge action. It does nothing to stop the situation happen again. While there are those who have landed gear up twice, most people don't care to repeat the experience! How then is relacing this pilot a "Remedial" action? Is the company now going to be able to use a crystal ball and tell that its replacement will NEVER make a mistake as serious as this? Oh, it sends the message "Stuff up here and you'll be shown the door", with the possible consequences discussed earlier. NOT a safety enhancing action.
Meanestman,
By saying a gross error is, by direct association, negligence, I assume you are saying "It will never happen to me" as I'm sure you don't consider yourself a negligent person.
On that basis sir, may I wish you a long, satisfying, error free career.
You'll be the only one...
Last edited by Wizofoz; 27th Sep 2003 at 18:48.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: nsw
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alas another shallow thinker
Wizofoz,
Why is it that this forum is abound with the shallow thinker. Read into any argument as shallow as you have and allow your ego to be tampered with in such a way as youve demonstrated, and an inevitably stupid post follows.
At no time have I suggested I am not capable of error.
If I were negligent enough to forget to put my wheels down, I would expect a DCM.
Read BIK 116.0s view on the old "those that have and those that will" philosophy, I totally agree with it.
However, I do agree with the sentiment that a Gross Error of that kind in this industry is equivalent to negligence. I suspect a court of law would treat it as such as well. Its indicative of the kind of accountability that comes with role of PIC. Its not just fancy terminology, there is a degree of legal responsibility that comes with the role, surely you know that?
and dont patronise me with that "sir" cr@p, rise above mediocrity, try and be original
Why is it that this forum is abound with the shallow thinker. Read into any argument as shallow as you have and allow your ego to be tampered with in such a way as youve demonstrated, and an inevitably stupid post follows.
At no time have I suggested I am not capable of error.
If I were negligent enough to forget to put my wheels down, I would expect a DCM.
Read BIK 116.0s view on the old "those that have and those that will" philosophy, I totally agree with it.
However, I do agree with the sentiment that a Gross Error of that kind in this industry is equivalent to negligence. I suspect a court of law would treat it as such as well. Its indicative of the kind of accountability that comes with role of PIC. Its not just fancy terminology, there is a degree of legal responsibility that comes with the role, surely you know that?
and dont patronise me with that "sir" cr@p, rise above mediocrity, try and be original
Last edited by meanestman; 28th Sep 2003 at 10:09.
"Sir",
23yrs in the industry, 14000hrs, 6000 command jet, working for my fourth jet airline (and NO I've never been fired!) with a background in training and CRM implementation.
OBVIOUSLY I have no background which would allow me to interpret your attitude as potentialy dangerous! I stand in awe of your obvious superiority and bow to your superior wisdom.
ONE DAY you may find yourself in a properly run airline and you will be introduced to the concepts necessary to run a decent saftey culture.
At that time I suggest you learn to listen, and not be abusive to people who are only trying to share a little of their experience with you.
23yrs in the industry, 14000hrs, 6000 command jet, working for my fourth jet airline (and NO I've never been fired!) with a background in training and CRM implementation.
OBVIOUSLY I have no background which would allow me to interpret your attitude as potentialy dangerous! I stand in awe of your obvious superiority and bow to your superior wisdom.
ONE DAY you may find yourself in a properly run airline and you will be introduced to the concepts necessary to run a decent saftey culture.
At that time I suggest you learn to listen, and not be abusive to people who are only trying to share a little of their experience with you.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My, my...egos at play? Try 37 years employed, 22000 hours and yes, all the C&T, CRM etc etc boxes ticked time ten. Any airline I ever worked for would at least demote a captain to F/O for landing gear up, assuming no mechanical failure. Said culprit would do six to 12 months penance in the RHS and a full 'check-to-line' before regaining his command, with the C&T section looking very closely at performance under pressure second time around. The hapless F/O would also likely get a grilling and possibly even have his own command prospects put on hold for a while.
A small outfit with one or two single pilot aircraft could afford nothing as luxurious in retraining pilots as an airline could, so what to do? What happens to a ship's captain when he puts his ship on the rocks? A school bus driver who runs the red and rolls it? As someone said above, the commander sometimes has to wear the consequences of his actions, or lack thereof.
No, I have not yet landed gear up, though nearly ( carrying out an asymmetric exercise during a base check on someone and got distracted by ATC). Had I done so, of course I would have expected the sack, and rightly so.
A small outfit with one or two single pilot aircraft could afford nothing as luxurious in retraining pilots as an airline could, so what to do? What happens to a ship's captain when he puts his ship on the rocks? A school bus driver who runs the red and rolls it? As someone said above, the commander sometimes has to wear the consequences of his actions, or lack thereof.
No, I have not yet landed gear up, though nearly ( carrying out an asymmetric exercise during a base check on someone and got distracted by ATC). Had I done so, of course I would have expected the sack, and rightly so.
RYAN TCAD - nope. Never flown for Brindabella, & provided the whole industry doesn't completely fall apart, hopefully never have to. 
On second though, let me add - never will - following the actions of a very senior staff member immediately following the recent incident.
On second though, let me add - never will - following the actions of a very senior staff member immediately following the recent incident.
Had I done so, of course I would have expected the sack, and rightly so.
Your experience is noted and respected. Why weren't you sacked for nearly landing gear up? Doesn't it show that you are someone capable of doing so and therefore, by your logic deserving of the door?
And if you had graunched and been sacked, who would it have benefitted? The company, by replacing you with a "better" pilot? You, by "Teaching you a leason" the actual gear up didn't?
Retribution adds nothing to air saftey.
Anyway, this is fast becoming a slanging match so this is my last comment.
Check greens everyone!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: nsw
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
resumes
Wizofoz
Thanks for the resume
You are obviously an aviation legend.
I would retort with a run down of my employment history, but Im just not that atypical kind of pilot.
Wizoz, your type is so predictable. As soon as the argument becomes seemingly unwinnable, out comes the resume for an appendage size comparison. Im not in awe, just in stitches.
This is the real world, not some fairytale where a Chieftain operator can afford the large corporate luxury of safety departments and disciplinary protocol. Half their assets have just been destroyed!
Thanks for the resume
You are obviously an aviation legend.
I would retort with a run down of my employment history, but Im just not that atypical kind of pilot.
Wizoz, your type is so predictable. As soon as the argument becomes seemingly unwinnable, out comes the resume for an appendage size comparison. Im not in awe, just in stitches.
This is the real world, not some fairytale where a Chieftain operator can afford the large corporate luxury of safety departments and disciplinary protocol. Half their assets have just been destroyed!
Last edited by meanestman; 29th Sep 2003 at 08:51.
Sorry, THIS is the last comment!
Meanest, my experience or otherwise is indeed irrelevant if my argument lacks logic. Explain to me how sacking someone for making a mistake adds to air saftey and I'll dip-me-lid to you.
As to typical types, someone who turns to personal abuse and belittlement because someone else dissagrees with them is ALL to typical on forums like this.
Meanest, my experience or otherwise is indeed irrelevant if my argument lacks logic. Explain to me how sacking someone for making a mistake adds to air saftey and I'll dip-me-lid to you.
As to typical types, someone who turns to personal abuse and belittlement because someone else dissagrees with them is ALL to typical on forums like this.
Yep this discussion is going nowhere.
Maybe this whole incident will be a blessing in disguise.
B'bella get a chance to get out of a old Chieftain and utilise the Metro, a safer machine all round. Business builds up and he gets rid of the other Chieftain.
The driver moves on to better things.
The travelling public travel in increased safety albeit with ear plugs.
Maybe this whole incident will be a blessing in disguise.
B'bella get a chance to get out of a old Chieftain and utilise the Metro, a safer machine all round. Business builds up and he gets rid of the other Chieftain.
The driver moves on to better things.
The travelling public travel in increased safety albeit with ear plugs.
PPRuNe's Paramedic
Join Date: May 2001
Location: tropical north
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my rather less than experienced seat, but one that has been involoved in some good, solid safety cultures and one less than sufferable company whose safety culture was less than standard (and convicted for it), I see some very experienced hands offering sound advice.
I seem to remember some time ago there was a little rule of thumb doing the traps. "A person could make it into QF by one of two routes, firstly be related to someone in there already, or have pranged an airframe 'cause sure as eggs you wont do it again!"
Sure, some companies will offer some great reconcillitary action post incident / accident. Others just sack the pilot. Ive seen pilots sacked on the very hint of suspicion. Very few pilots have the guts to stand up and say "well I did stuff up, Im sorry". Good investigation of the incident / accident and reassessment of skills should be encouraged and most often works when put into place. The rewards for the company being, a loyal pilot, one with a new reinforced safety mentality, and no requirement to start from scratch a completely unknown new pilot.
GA unfortunately has a reputation for being a really scarey proposition. Any little thing might just get you sacked. It shouldnt be this way. GA is already the hardest flying anyone has to do in their career. I have been there, and Ive been at the recieving end of some really unfair reprisals after an event where I wasnt even the one flying. I copped heaps both here and face to face.
On another note, now tell me if I am incorrect in saying most ethical operators have hull insurance. Even if the excess is $10k or slightly more, very few operators have to fork out for a new / repaired hull.
I feel for the chap who knew he balls it up. I could just about lay bets he would never do it again.
NC
I seem to remember some time ago there was a little rule of thumb doing the traps. "A person could make it into QF by one of two routes, firstly be related to someone in there already, or have pranged an airframe 'cause sure as eggs you wont do it again!"
Sure, some companies will offer some great reconcillitary action post incident / accident. Others just sack the pilot. Ive seen pilots sacked on the very hint of suspicion. Very few pilots have the guts to stand up and say "well I did stuff up, Im sorry". Good investigation of the incident / accident and reassessment of skills should be encouraged and most often works when put into place. The rewards for the company being, a loyal pilot, one with a new reinforced safety mentality, and no requirement to start from scratch a completely unknown new pilot.
GA unfortunately has a reputation for being a really scarey proposition. Any little thing might just get you sacked. It shouldnt be this way. GA is already the hardest flying anyone has to do in their career. I have been there, and Ive been at the recieving end of some really unfair reprisals after an event where I wasnt even the one flying. I copped heaps both here and face to face.
On another note, now tell me if I am incorrect in saying most ethical operators have hull insurance. Even if the excess is $10k or slightly more, very few operators have to fork out for a new / repaired hull.
I feel for the chap who knew he balls it up. I could just about lay bets he would never do it again.
NC
BIK
Thanks tips!
Thanks tips!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cambodia
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pilot's prayer: "Dear Lord, please don't let me fukc up"
I think people are mistaking Wizofoz as 'defending' the (alleged) negligence of the pilot in landing gear up.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the vibe i get is that he is coming from the angle of punishing pilots for 'errors' only forces the 'true causes' to be buried, for fear of retribution. Am I wrong inthis assumption Wiz?
If a pilot is going to be axxed for telling the 'truth' about an allegedly negligent occurrence, then there is no 'incentive' for the truth to be known - hence safety in general is diminished by the loss of another opportunity to uncover a latent factor involved in leading to this type of accident, yeah?
In my past, under the high pressure of a SPIFR workload coming out of the bottom of a cloud on a couple of particularly nasty night IAP's and finally getting visual and manoevring to land I only caught the gear still up on the finals check - a check that i conducted, and continue to conduct with religious fervour. Saved me a couple of times. OK, threetimes.
So, you can forget the gear, but not the gear AND the finals check!
Given the right (wrong) set of circumstances, ANYONE can forget the gear, or any one of the multitude of other items that we as pilots carry out - it's just that quite a few of them don't end up an accident, and that saves alot of pilots.
Personally, i would expect the DCM, and would probably deserve it, but would be thankful for getting a 'second chance' considering my good operating record and not get fired. But if i did get fired, ce la vie.
What about if a pilot had a history of this type of event? Or other occurrences?
This is not meant to be directed at what actually happened (as I don't have any of the true story) but, there are 3 sides to every story, and if someone wrecks your plane, well it's your perogative to not want them to fly them anymore after the facts are presented and negligence is 'proven'.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the vibe i get is that he is coming from the angle of punishing pilots for 'errors' only forces the 'true causes' to be buried, for fear of retribution. Am I wrong inthis assumption Wiz?
If a pilot is going to be axxed for telling the 'truth' about an allegedly negligent occurrence, then there is no 'incentive' for the truth to be known - hence safety in general is diminished by the loss of another opportunity to uncover a latent factor involved in leading to this type of accident, yeah?
In my past, under the high pressure of a SPIFR workload coming out of the bottom of a cloud on a couple of particularly nasty night IAP's and finally getting visual and manoevring to land I only caught the gear still up on the finals check - a check that i conducted, and continue to conduct with religious fervour. Saved me a couple of times. OK, threetimes.
So, you can forget the gear, but not the gear AND the finals check!
Given the right (wrong) set of circumstances, ANYONE can forget the gear, or any one of the multitude of other items that we as pilots carry out - it's just that quite a few of them don't end up an accident, and that saves alot of pilots.
Personally, i would expect the DCM, and would probably deserve it, but would be thankful for getting a 'second chance' considering my good operating record and not get fired. But if i did get fired, ce la vie.
What about if a pilot had a history of this type of event? Or other occurrences?
This is not meant to be directed at what actually happened (as I don't have any of the true story) but, there are 3 sides to every story, and if someone wrecks your plane, well it's your perogative to not want them to fly them anymore after the facts are presented and negligence is 'proven'.