Allegiant fires pilot after ordering an emergency evacuation
 

It was June 8. With the smell of acrid smoke filling his cabin, he’d just made an emergency landing at Florida's St. Pete-Clearwater International Airport, where ground fire crews had informed him that his No. 1 engine was smoking. Despite cutting power to the engine, the smell hadn’t dissipated, Kinzer said, and he was worried about his 141 passengers...

He knew an emergency evacuation could be risky. But a smoky plane can be risky, too.

“This is a tough corner to be backed in because you have very little information and you may have a very small amount of time to get it right. ... How long do you wait?” Kinzer said in an exclusive interview with ABC News’ David Kerley. “I felt the best decision was to get them to safety and get them away from an airplane that was smoking.”

So he popped the emergency slides and ordered an evac.

Six weeks later, he was fired...

In a lawsuit filed Thursday, Kinzer’s lawyer claims Allegiant ousted Kinzer “maliciously” because he hadn’t prioritized company assets and negative media exposure above passenger wellbeing...

According to the lawsuit, Allegiant may have disregarded a Federal Aviation Administration regulation that places the responsibility for emergency decision-making with the pilot...

Full story here: https://gma.yahoo.com/ex-pilot-sues-...pstories.html#

What's the rest of this story? What a bizarre situation.

A few weeks later the guy that fired him made a little news himself:

Pilot Low on Gas Declares Fuel Emergency After Runway Closure - ABC News

sounds like an outfit to avoid............

Not if you're an investor.

For all of you PPRuNe sea lawyers here is a link to the lawsuit as filed:

https://consumermediallc.files.wordp...-complaint.pdf

And how do we know this to be true?

The link in post #3 includes an ATC recording. Doesn't sound fake to me.

Thanks Airbubba.

Here's an excerpt from the radio transcription detailed in Exhibit 1. The "Unknown" voice seems to be RF2 but not identified as such.

(no other related conversation until the transcription end).

From the dismissal letter:


'You ordered an evacuation that was entirely
unwarranted and, as a result, your conduct and decision-making on June 8,compromised the safety of
your crew and your passengers and led directly to the injuries.'


I didn't see a reference to any injuries in the rest of the document.

@susier
Allegiant plane leaving St. Pete-Clearwater makes emergency landing | WFLA.com

I know that, but how do we know that is the same person?
He's been fired by either the Chief Pilot, the DO or the Head of HR.
So how do we know the guy telling him to hold off on evac is the same guy low on fuel?

I think you're getting confused, nobody is suggesting that as far as I can see.

I hope Captain Kinzer wins his lawsuit, and I wonder why when he claims defamation and loss of employment prospects, he is only asking for $10,000!
This seems far too little for the damage to his career.

According to the writeup from News Channel 8 the same day, the passengers were upset by "screaming flight attendants" and having to clamber out on the wings by themselves. The media intends to provoke shock and horror at the very behavior flight attendants are TRAINED to provide - in event of an evacuation with smoke in the cabin, commands are given at the top of your voice, not in a whisper or as a gentle suggestion. (and forget about taking out your carry on baggage, right?!)

I've flown out of St.Pete Clearwater quite a few times (in a beatup 172). This airline Allegiant carrying 141 pax from St. Pete to Hagerstown Maryland is probably running on fumes anyway! borne out by the second incident appearing in the media. Never thought I would be cheering for the lawyers, but in this case, the sooner this flaky operation is shut down the better.

Well, it's not exactly a state secret if you've been following the recent Allegiant saga:

Allegiant Air execs at controls of flight that landed with low fuel | Las Vegas Review-Journal

But, the good news is that V-P of Ops Captain Baden was found to have 'exercised sound judgment' after he investigated his own incident :ok::

Allegiant investigation: Captain exercised sound judgment | Las Vegas Review-Journal

The Allegiant line pilots are members of a union with strong historical ties to organized crime (as in the Mafia). The current president is the first in many years not to be indicted on federal felony charges. Most of the union's leaders in the past six decades have gone to prison. Jackie Presser beat the rap by dying of a heart attack in 1988 and Ron Carey was acquitted in 2001 but I believe every other recent past president has done hard time in federal prison. Yo' Vinnie, youse got a problem wit dat?

True management material, that one

No, it says "in excess of $10,000" and you can bet they will be asking for commensurate damages. That is just boilerplate language to establish that this is not a "small claims" lawsuit and is within the jurisdiction of the relevant civil court.

The wording of the termination letter addressed to Cpt Kinder seems very thin to me. I wish Kinzer to win this court case!

Recently, British Airways showed us how quickly an airliner can burn down. This MD80 did not end up burning, but one cannot foresee that as a pilot at that moment.

Anybody know if and when this MD80 was released to service again, and what the cause of the smoke was?

this mob is another ValuJet just waiting to happen...the low fuel story with the management pilots flying is very interesting reading...

I was not likely to fly Allegiant before, and certainly not now.

Can't think of any worse safety practice than second-guessing a PIC and attempting to deprive him of his livelihood because he make a call fully within his authority and to the benefit of his passengers and crew.

TWB

This is outrageous :mad::mad: ....
The FAA should pull their AOC immediately :eek:

Hold off on the evacuation?
 

It would be interesting to know who on the outside of the plane transmitted, "Hold off on your evacuation". Was it RF2, or a company official?

How would they know what is really going on within the cabin?

I can't imagine someone not knowing the inside issues ordering a PIC to not exercise HIS authority.

Again, just my $.02.

Regards,

OBD

Edit. I re read the radio info. I see it now.

This is typical of the state of the industry amoungst the "Bottom Feeders" South of the border, also of some of our outfits in Canada, I hope the FAA audit these idiots and if possible, shut them down!

this story is one of the most shocking reads on ppruner in a while

hope the FAA suspends them soon

I've flown Allegiant a number of times.

Their cabin crew are professional. Their flight crews likewise (as far as I as a SLF can ever tell!)

I'm not flying them any more. Till they re-organize.

Why would the FAA become involved in a human resources issue with an employee? Not thier turf to determine if the firing has merit or not, that's the job of the court.

west coast of course its a matter for the FAA they are very much involved in the cabin decision making process and for good reason

This isn't about the evac. The PIC made his decision. The CMO office would have reviewed the process for compliance. If they had issues with that, then there would be a number of paths to head down from case closed to taking issue with the procedure itself, the PIC, the FA's and anyone else who touched the issue.

That Allegient fired him is an internal company decision. The courts will determine if the termination was appropriate or not, not the FAA.

Before you rush to reply, ask yourself why this isn't in front of a NTSB judge if you think the FAA has jurisdiction.

PIC authority is, I assume, defined in company flight ops documents. Documents that are approved by the POI.

This is most definitely an FAA issue. They just haven't gotten involved yet.

As regards the firing, your incorrect. If the the evac was completed improperly, yes the FAA would have a say.

This doesn't send a good message to the rest of the troops does it? I mean, what's the next guy going to do in the same situation? "**** I don't know if we're on fire or not, but I'm not going to evacuate because I'll get fired".

Your right
Is it the type of Airlines who will fire a Captain if he does a go around because they are not stable at 1000 feet or 500 depending of their SOP??

One word.......wow

Wonderful safety culture they are fostering.

From the folks I know there, they have some good talent in the flight deck, but the rest is in shambles...including flt ops management...few I know have stuck it out just long enough to get the jet hours then bail, hopefully without a violation, or incident on their record..

When in doubt there is no doubt. I'm all for evacuating when it is obviously the best thing to do. Sometimes it's obvious it is not necessary. Sometimes it's a grey area and there is doubt, often due to lack of information or accurate information in which you have confidence. In all circumstances it is your neck on the block. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Prevaricating is not a good idea as the 'flames rise high into the night to light the sacrificial light'....

As many other postersI find this really shocking - of course with the benefit of hindsight it might be easy to blame to captain but it is really up to him in the heat (no pun intended) of the moment. From all I can see here his decision seemed appropriate.

Just a quick question: notwithstanding the inherent risks of an emergency evacuation, what would be the cost to the carrier - I'm looking for a ballpark estimate of the direct (replacing the slides, checking some equipments) and indirect (paperwork, possible delays) costs ?

Emergency Return to SLC
 

The FAA, initially, was going to violate this Delta Captain for not commanding an evacuation for an AGB magnesium fire on a B-767:

NO ONE HURT AFTER FIRE FORCES PLANE BACK TO S.L. | Deseret News

There's a video of the fire but I couldn't find it doing a Google search.

Shouldn't the FAA be looking to whoever made the transmission to hold off the evac?
Who said it and on what grounds?

What really gets my goat is that some raving halfwit at management level actually thinks that a move such as this will not end in a bad result for the company. Better to burn some time than burn the bloody passengers. The Captain made the right call, simple.

Could this be considered to be a criminal offence, i.e. Willfully endangering a flight?