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AA Crash Jamaica
From Fox News Website
An American Airlines plane skidded off the runway and broke in two after landing in Kingston, Jamaica, shortly after 10 p.m. local time Tuesday, according to local news reports. There were no immediate reports of casualties. Details were not immediately available, but passengers at Norman Manley International Airport told local media that flight 331 had just arrived from Miami in heavy rain when the crash occurred. The flight apparently originated in Washington, D.C. An airport official said the plane overshot the runway and persons are being evacuated, with some sent to hospital. "The plane crashed and broke almost in front of me," said passenger Naomi Palmer to the Jamaica Observer. Palmer said she was in pain. Emergency vehicles sirens could be heard as she spoke via cell phone. Although Fox are reporting that the flight originated in Washington,it appears to have been via Miami. Hope everyone walked away. |
Associated Press
AP) – 6 minutes ago MIAMI — An American Airlines spokesman says a flight from Miami has overshot the runway in Kingston, Jamaica, but came to a safe stop. He says there are no reports of injuries or fatalities. Charley Wilson says all passengers are off Flight 331. It took off from Miami International Airport Tuesday evening. He says it was almost a full flight. He says normally a flight carries 140 passengers plus the crew. He says more information was not available. FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown says the plane was a Boeing 737. |
On the BBC here:
BBC News - American Airlines plane 'overshoots runway' in Jamaica An American Airlines plane has overshot the runway at an airport in the Jamaican capital Kingston, reports say. Initial reports suggested Flight AA 331 from Miami had broken apart after landing at Norman Manley International Airport in heavy rain. Jamaican information Minister Daryl Vaz said at least 40 people were injured but there were no reported fatalities. A journalist from the Jamaica Observer told the BBC the plane came to rest on a roadway. He said survivors thought the plane was landing normally before there was a series of jolts and luggage fell from overhead lockers. Kingston police officer O'Neil Hinds told AP some people had been taken to hospital. |
It appears that current info is unreliable as some reports here say the plane didn't break up and there were no injuries. Will have to wait and see. Nothing much more to offer from the west side of the pond.
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Googled a few minutes ago and reports were 40 injuries and plane damaged but did not break up. The pilots originated in MIA and were not involved in the storms earlier this week.
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Statement from AA
AMERICAN AIRLINES STATEMENT REGARDING FLIGHT 331 Release #1 @ 11:58 (p.m.) U.S. Central Time
PRNewswire FORT WORTH, Texas FORT WORTH, Texas, Dec. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, American Airlines Flight 331, a Boeing 737-800 aircraft, overran the runway on landing at Kingston, Jamaica's Norman Manley International Airport. The flight originated out of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, operated into Miami International Airport, and then operated into Kingston's Norman Manley International Airport. Preliminary reports indicate there are no serious injuries. The aircraft was carrying 148 passengers and a crew of six. American Airlines is in direct contact with officials from the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration and is cooperating fully with appropriate authorities. American Airlines will not speculate as to possible causes of the incident. At this point, no additional details can be confirmed. SOURCE: American Airlines |
Acft reported to be N977AA:
Photos: Boeing 737-823 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net Reported by NBC that one engine came off and gear collapsed. Jetliner misses runway in Jamaica - Americas- msnbc.com Unconfirmed reports on A.net suggest plane came to rest on a beach. |
Doesn't sound like they missed the runway, more like they found it a little too enthusiastically.
It will be interesting to see what the flightcrew had for a duty day before they flew to Jamaica. A nasty approach after a long day is very condusive to errors happening. Little Rock cmes to mind. We shall have to wait and see. |
'Lost' an engine
@akerosid: I think the story reported that they 'lost' an engine, and the gear collapsed, which could mean that they lost power on the engine, not necessarily that it departed the airframe.
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"One engine came off and the gear collapsed" sounds like a reference to impact damage and the condition of the airframe when it stopped.
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BBC photo
Bit of a grainy photo on the BBC web site but definately a broken aircraft
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Picture on the beeb website shows the rear section of the fusilege "snapped" relative to the rest of it.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...aica_plane.jpg |
Associated Press are now quoting airport and airline officials. Injuries and a broken aircraft
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Notice that there is no runway behind the a/c, and 'behind' here refers to the rear of the a/c, not the rear of the photo. So it's current position seems rather odd. How much has it slewed/spun I wonder?
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American Airlines rep on CNN here in the US stated aircraft ran off the end of the runway, through the perimeter fence and ended up on or near a road at the end of the runway. Right engine departed the wing and left gear ripped off.......
Unsure of casualty numbers but no life threatening injuries reported. |
Norwegian paper Aftenposten...
... has a rather non-hysterical interview with a passenger claiming that there was turbulence where the flight attendants had to stop serving drinks 3 times, before finally giving up althogether.
Just before landing the flight crew warned against even more turbulence. Sounds like they were in for some nasty weather for sure... |
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Would the experts like to cast their eyes over the METAR in the Wikipedia article and make any corrections if necessary please?
American Airlines Flight 331 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
Good to see somebody fixed it up from 33,000 feet of visibility to 3000m. But seriously 2 knots of wind?
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What`s the RWY-length at KIN?
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hey guys...... Here are the two metars closest to the time of touchdown.......
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013 MKJP 230200Z 30012KT 5000 SHRA BKN014 SCT030 BKN100 22/20 Q1013 RERA Obviously winds where ideal for a RWY30 approach. My guess is they used RWY12 to use the ILS @ KIN. I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'. Glad everybody survived..... kudos to the AA flight crew ,Ops and ARFF crews @ Manley.... Regards RaInZ |
We can assume they landed on runway 12 - there is no beach off the other end, just a 7-8m drop into the bay.
Runway length is 8786ft. |
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'. |
Telstar i agree with you and nobody is getting sidetracked........... it was a simple point i made to show that they used 12 surely because of the ILS... or you think it was for another reason?
regards RaInZ |
The B737-800 has been in service with AA for several if not more years now. Nothing new about the AA operating this airplane.
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Broken left wing, broken back - you can see the video on BBC...
Whoops..... |
"Engines were Removed"
The choice of words of the AA spokesman, as cited in the WSJ, certainly minimizes the violence of the crash (hopefully without fatality):
"Fort Worth-based American spokesman Tim Smith said Wednesday that 'both engines were removed or taken off the wing as it happened,' as designed to do for safety reasons." :rolleyes: |
Well....
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
Not so bad: 1. Light weight and, 2. Long runway and, 3. Touchdown at proper speed and, 4. Touchdown at proper point on runway and, 5. Immediate and full braking efforts and, 6. Runway not contaminated. Very bad: 1. One or more of the above not satisfied..... Fly safe, PantLoad |
METAR
The NOAA site states RVR as 3000
SACA31 KWBC 230300 RRA MTRKJP METAR MKJP 230300Z 32008KT 3000 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 21/20 Q1014 RETSRA |
Passengers injured as American Airlines plane misses runway in Jamaica - Times Online
Better pic on the Times website. Port wingtip snapped off, fuselage rutured aft of the wing and the detached starboard engine visible in the background. A mess. There are some injured pax but no lives lost. 5th hull loss of a 737 NG. |
Well... not need to speculate here. DFDR... DCVR... and OFDM (aka Big Brother) will supply the information.
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That's a good photo. Confirms the aircraft's location as being on the grass verge between the Norman Manly highway and the beach (lets hope they don't find a car under there). This makes is approx 80m past the numbers.
Also looks like the aircraft has completed a 180 - presumably before coming off the 2-3m drop at the end of the runway, judging by the fact the tail is still co-located with the rest of the fuselage. Starting to look like a lucky escape indeed. |
I live and fly privately in Kingston. Norman Manley International is built pretty much on reclaimed land across Kingston Harbour just south of the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Manley_International_Airport
There is a link on this page to the Google Earth map of the airport. The day of the crash was extremely wet in Jamaica with widespread flooding. As seen from the METAR report flight AA331 landed with a tailwind on a wet runway. Aquaplaning and a tailwind landing were possible contributory causes of the run off. The passengers and crew were very lucky that the airplane stopped where it did as 5m more and they would have been in the sea. Interested to see from the news footage that the door slides did not seem to deploy. |
AP video of damage to be seen here...Jamaica plane crash: American Airlines flight AA331 to Miami overshoots runway (photo, video)
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Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble. No it ain't bubba. That's what we have performance charts and tables for. I've landed with 15kts tailwind on snow and the -800 is a good performer. That kind of mentality is light aircraft mentality. Fuel in the bowser, runway behind you, only taking off into wind and full power takeoffs don't apply to Performance A aircraft. They land and takeoff with tailwinds, depart from intersections and don't fill up the tanks on every flight. |
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble. A pilot (be them a simulator/microsoft operator or newbie) is asking for trouble if they continue into conditions beyond their capabilities. That's why crews have the option to hold outside the airport area until conditions improve, provided their egos don't get in the way. |
I like the sophisticated EMASS system they had in place....some rocks in the ground.
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I don't think that one should rule out tailwinds as part of the equation. I am surprised that anyone would comment about jet vs. light plane mentality... If the plane landed in accordance with known conditions and approved methods/wind speed that is ok...but if the pilots received faulty information as to the exact speed and direction of the wind, this could be an area of concern.
I would hope someone would post the gradient of the runway in question as well (slope). I would hope P51 guy can look up the max tail wind component that American uses and verify the runway used. The plane did break in half according to new pictures. Aft of the wing. Lucky there was NO fire. I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers. There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes. If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane. Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too. |
I will NEVER do a intersection TO..... does that make me a light plane hysterical pilot? WHY TAKE THE RISK? Back to the thread. |
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too. I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers. There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes. If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane. |
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