Three parallell runways operations in USA.
Thread Starter
Three parallell runways operations in USA.
Heathrow is planning to use a parallell three runway system, if the UK government gives permission to build a third runway. They appear to be unwilling to explain how this will operate and give respite to local residents. Currently respite splits at 3pm each day with a switch of runways, but with 3 runways respite will be split by one third, across 6am to 11pm ops. Also each runway will need to accommodate A380 ops departing to the North and South from all runways & possibly only one flight westwards to the US. Are any US airports operating in this mode?
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If you are inquiring about mandatory noise abatement runway operations in the U.S., (ie selective runway curfews), I can't think of any.
The FAA gives preference to big business airlines vice impacted citizens.
Quite different from what you may be used to by your government.
Check out KMIA.
The FAA gives preference to big business airlines vice impacted citizens.
Quite different from what you may be used to by your government.
Check out KMIA.
Over here, wisely, we implemented Stage III and Stage IV noise standards at great expense on the airline's just like you did in Europe. The FAA, under FAR150, did all sorts of noise abatements including buying houses, then we told the complainers--STFU, you live near an airport. I'd suggest the same, it's not like the new planes are noisy.
GF
GF
I have no idea how it works in London or Miami, but here in Los Angeles many Billions (with a capital B!) have been spent appeasing anti-airport activists over the last 50 or 60 years. Noise studies, preferential runway programs, eminent domain property acquisitions and condemnations... What taxpayers didn't pay for, big airlines did. Of course airlines just pass increased costs on to their customers along with a markup, but that's another story.
As previously noted, much of the actual noise generated has been mitigated by quieter engines over the years, but that just raises the expectations bar higher yet! Where I live, in one of the neighborhoods surrounding LAX, LAWA has been forced to provide noise remediation measures to thousands of residential structures in the area. These measures consist of triple pane windows, ventilation systems so the windows can remain closed and in-wall noise insulation in some cases. Additionally, cash payment has been made to the city of El Segundo to settle "damages". A far cry from just telling local residents to "shut up"!
I've lived in the communities near LAX for 20 years and prefer it to other places I've lived in SoCal. Most people living down here hardly even notice LAX once they are acclimated. As a kid, we lived about 3 miles out just off the extended centerline of the Northern runway. DC-8s, 707s, classic 747s... Now THAT was loud! The average noise level here next to LAX must be about 10 db lower than it is for the hundreds of thousands living within 1,000' of the 405 freeway!
westhawk
As previously noted, much of the actual noise generated has been mitigated by quieter engines over the years, but that just raises the expectations bar higher yet! Where I live, in one of the neighborhoods surrounding LAX, LAWA has been forced to provide noise remediation measures to thousands of residential structures in the area. These measures consist of triple pane windows, ventilation systems so the windows can remain closed and in-wall noise insulation in some cases. Additionally, cash payment has been made to the city of El Segundo to settle "damages". A far cry from just telling local residents to "shut up"!
I've lived in the communities near LAX for 20 years and prefer it to other places I've lived in SoCal. Most people living down here hardly even notice LAX once they are acclimated. As a kid, we lived about 3 miles out just off the extended centerline of the Northern runway. DC-8s, 707s, classic 747s... Now THAT was loud! The average noise level here next to LAX must be about 10 db lower than it is for the hundreds of thousands living within 1,000' of the 405 freeway!
westhawk
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If the headwinds were forecast to be light, we would take a delay at the gate at LAX, (45 minutes or more) so as not to arrive too early at SYD.
The fine for landing before 6 am local time at SYD was $200,000 AU.
On a few occasions we would have to enter holding or take delaying vectors in order to comply with the curfew.
Not many U.S. airports, if any, have such penalties that I am aware of.
The problem on the return leg to LAX from SYD was not with a curfew as such, but predicated on the time that U.S. Customs and Immigration opened for service.
If "service" is the correct description.
The fine for landing before 6 am local time at SYD was $200,000 AU.
On a few occasions we would have to enter holding or take delaying vectors in order to comply with the curfew.
Not many U.S. airports, if any, have such penalties that I am aware of.
The problem on the return leg to LAX from SYD was not with a curfew as such, but predicated on the time that U.S. Customs and Immigration opened for service.
If "service" is the correct description.
Last edited by wanabee777; 27th Nov 2015 at 14:30.
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Here is a link to the FAA's Airport/Facility Directory for Miami:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flig...nt=mia&navaid=
AIRPORT REMARKS: Attended continuously. CLOSED non–engine acft. Rwy 08L–26R CLOSED 0200–1100Z‡ when Rwy
08R–26L and Rwy 09–27 are in use. Rwy 12–30 CLOSED 0200–1100Z‡ when Rwys 08R–26L and Rwy 09–27 are in
use. Birds on and invof arpt. PPR 3 hrs prior to all arr on the General Aviation Center (GAC) ramp. Ctc Ramp Ctl at
305–876–7550 and upon arr on freq 131.600 acft with wingspan greater than 78´ are prohibited from entering the GAC
ramp. Acft with a wingspan greater than 171´ are prohibited from taxiing on Twy P, East of Twy U. Acft with a wingspan
greater than 143´ are prohibited from using Twy AA. PPR for inbd mil flts 100 NM on freq 130.5. Rwy 08L touchdown
RVR avbl. Rwy 09 touchdown and midfld RVR avbl. Rwy 26L touchdown RVR avbl. Rwy 08R touchdown RVR avbl. Rwy
27 touchdown RVR avbl. All turbojet acft use distant NS ABTMT dep profile from all rwys exc A320, B727, B737–800,
B767–400, and DC9 which should use close–in NS ABTMT profile. All medical emerg arr, with the exception of air
ambulance flts, must secure doors until ARFF is on scene. ASDE–X in use. Opr transponders with altitude reporting mode
and ADS–B (if equipped) enabled on all twys and rwys. All diversion ctc frequency 130.5 upon arrival. Flight Notification
Service (ADCUS) avbl. Ldg fee. NOTE: See Special Notices—Continuous Power Facilities and U.S. Special Customs
Requirement.
AIRPORT MANAGER: 305-876-7077
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flig...nt=mia&navaid=
AIRPORT REMARKS: Attended continuously. CLOSED non–engine acft. Rwy 08L–26R CLOSED 0200–1100Z‡ when Rwy
08R–26L and Rwy 09–27 are in use. Rwy 12–30 CLOSED 0200–1100Z‡ when Rwys 08R–26L and Rwy 09–27 are in
use. Birds on and invof arpt. PPR 3 hrs prior to all arr on the General Aviation Center (GAC) ramp. Ctc Ramp Ctl at
305–876–7550 and upon arr on freq 131.600 acft with wingspan greater than 78´ are prohibited from entering the GAC
ramp. Acft with a wingspan greater than 171´ are prohibited from taxiing on Twy P, East of Twy U. Acft with a wingspan
greater than 143´ are prohibited from using Twy AA. PPR for inbd mil flts 100 NM on freq 130.5. Rwy 08L touchdown
RVR avbl. Rwy 09 touchdown and midfld RVR avbl. Rwy 26L touchdown RVR avbl. Rwy 08R touchdown RVR avbl. Rwy
27 touchdown RVR avbl. All turbojet acft use distant NS ABTMT dep profile from all rwys exc A320, B727, B737–800,
B767–400, and DC9 which should use close–in NS ABTMT profile. All medical emerg arr, with the exception of air
ambulance flts, must secure doors until ARFF is on scene. ASDE–X in use. Opr transponders with altitude reporting mode
and ADS–B (if equipped) enabled on all twys and rwys. All diversion ctc frequency 130.5 upon arrival. Flight Notification
Service (ADCUS) avbl. Ldg fee. NOTE: See Special Notices—Continuous Power Facilities and U.S. Special Customs
Requirement.
AIRPORT MANAGER: 305-876-7077
DFW has 5 parallel north south runways and will conduct simultaneous landings on the outer 3 while departing on the inner 2. It was designed 50 years ago out in the middle of nowhere. Even then they bought up much of the surrounding land for a noise buffer and it is leased for commercial use. There is a plan to add a sixth N/S runway on the west side to allow quad landings. However it's arrival would fly over the center of the town of Grapevine which was there before the the airport was built. Currently I believe the 6th runway is on hold.
DFW has A380 ops and normally use the west side. The international terminal is on the west side. And while not a problem with pax ops, I heard there were concerns the freighter version of the A380 with it's higher gross weight would overload the bridges between the east and west side.
The prevailing winds are southerly so I'd say 80 percent of the ops are south flow.
DFW has A380 ops and normally use the west side. The international terminal is on the west side. And while not a problem with pax ops, I heard there were concerns the freighter version of the A380 with it's higher gross weight would overload the bridges between the east and west side.
The prevailing winds are southerly so I'd say 80 percent of the ops are south flow.
Last edited by MarkerInbound; 27th Nov 2015 at 14:49. Reason: Added weather
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Major US airports with >2 parallels:
5: ORD, ATL, DFW
4: DEN, MCO, LAX
3: PHL, IAD, CLT, PHX, MIA, SLC, CVG, STL, IAH
(bold indicates A380 service, not that it really means anything for this scenario)
I'm sure there are more - this is what I have off the top of my head. I'm not aware of any formal "at X time, Y configuration goes into effect" scenarios, though I do know that late night at LAX, the preferred arrangement is to do both arrivals and departures over the ocean (dep 25/26, arr 6/7 - see the REDEYE 2 arrival http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1512/00237REDEYE.PDF )
5: ORD, ATL, DFW
4: DEN, MCO, LAX
3: PHL, IAD, CLT, PHX, MIA, SLC, CVG, STL, IAH
(bold indicates A380 service, not that it really means anything for this scenario)
I'm sure there are more - this is what I have off the top of my head. I'm not aware of any formal "at X time, Y configuration goes into effect" scenarios, though I do know that late night at LAX, the preferred arrangement is to do both arrivals and departures over the ocean (dep 25/26, arr 6/7 - see the REDEYE 2 arrival http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1512/00237REDEYE.PDF )
Thread Starter
Many thanks for the useful replies
It is not a specific noise issue, as it is accepted aircraft are getting quieter. But if the new runway goes ahead, the noise footprint will increase the area subject to noise. Heathrow (LHR)cannot explain proposed departure routes on either headings, as routes need to go south and north. Also the current northern runway is restricted to no easterly departures, so not subject to northern & westerly turning departures.
I assume that departures cannot pass across the path of the landing runway in operation, due to "go arounds".
The other issue is that LHR are losing frequency due to the A380 ops being slower on the ground, and wake separation.
I have lived within the area of LHR since early 70's, and no worries with noise.
Thanks again.
It is not a specific noise issue, as it is accepted aircraft are getting quieter. But if the new runway goes ahead, the noise footprint will increase the area subject to noise. Heathrow (LHR)cannot explain proposed departure routes on either headings, as routes need to go south and north. Also the current northern runway is restricted to no easterly departures, so not subject to northern & westerly turning departures.
I assume that departures cannot pass across the path of the landing runway in operation, due to "go arounds".
The other issue is that LHR are losing frequency due to the A380 ops being slower on the ground, and wake separation.
I have lived within the area of LHR since early 70's, and no worries with noise.
Thanks again.
