Worrying trend in renters insurance
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Age: 60
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Worrying trend in renters insurance
I was looking at a club for rental today and came across the following paragraph (below). It reads to me like Avemco are marketing to flying clubs the benefits of renters insurance (and I imagine offering kickbacks) whilst expecting the renters to cough up the premiums. Ths strikes me as a back door way of clubs gaining extra coverage or worse, reducing their coverage and increasing the effort and cost for the renter. I can only say that I'd prefer to rent from an outfit where decent insurance was a fully inclusive part of the hourly rate and the deductible the only potential extra, without any whiff of insurance companies flogging coverage by dubious means. I also can't say I was enamoured by the suggestion that I'd be "liable for the damage incurred if someone else drove into the aurcraft after I'd parked it"
Anyone else feel the same?
Anyone else feel the same?
We recently updated the rental minimums for our aircraft and became an Avemco insurance partner. If you haven't taken a look at the new minimums, check them out! Or download them here.
If you need renters insurance or to renew, click here to get it!
(remember our mins are: $10,000 for damage to aircraft all aircraft except SR22 which is $20,000, )
If any of you are wondering what this covers here is a short explaination. In the past we have asked that renters have coverage that only covers the deductable of our coverage. But we have found that minor prop strikes can result in the aircraft being off line for months. The aircraft owner is still responsible for their monthly payments and insurance payments during this time. With no income the numbers start to add up.
Keep in mind this insurance covers you where ever you rent. So it is not just a Justice Aviation coverage. With this coverage you can concentrate on your flying without the worries of what will I do if someone smashes the aircraft after I parked it.
If you need renters insurance or to renew, click here to get it!
(remember our mins are: $10,000 for damage to aircraft all aircraft except SR22 which is $20,000, )
If any of you are wondering what this covers here is a short explaination. In the past we have asked that renters have coverage that only covers the deductable of our coverage. But we have found that minor prop strikes can result in the aircraft being off line for months. The aircraft owner is still responsible for their monthly payments and insurance payments during this time. With no income the numbers start to add up.
Keep in mind this insurance covers you where ever you rent. So it is not just a Justice Aviation coverage. With this coverage you can concentrate on your flying without the worries of what will I do if someone smashes the aircraft after I parked it.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Northampton UK
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if this is a bit of a Santa Monica thing? The only time I have been required to have renter's insurance was renting out of .. Santa Monica. The several FBO's there, including Justice, seemed to have similar requirements. My 'own' FBO in Az has no such requirement and assures me that I would not even be liable for the deductible unless I was negligent.
Another issue is that as a non-US resident you wonder why it's such a big deal to get a policy with your true address on it. Foreign pilots get steered (by the brokers) toward using the FBO address. This all seems very devious, the sort of thing that would invalidate car insurance in UK and even might be illegal.
After some argument with one well known broker I got a policy with my UK address on it but only mailable to me at an hotel address in Hollywood! Happily I didn't need to claim on it. The 'other' broker eventually admitted that "they don't insure foreigners".
It would be very interesting to know if the principle of 'subrogation', as is heavily larded on one broker's website, has ever been used against a renter and under what circumstances. As far as the deductible is concerned in my view that's an acceptable risk in the grand scheme of flying.
Another issue is that as a non-US resident you wonder why it's such a big deal to get a policy with your true address on it. Foreign pilots get steered (by the brokers) toward using the FBO address. This all seems very devious, the sort of thing that would invalidate car insurance in UK and even might be illegal.
After some argument with one well known broker I got a policy with my UK address on it but only mailable to me at an hotel address in Hollywood! Happily I didn't need to claim on it. The 'other' broker eventually admitted that "they don't insure foreigners".
It would be very interesting to know if the principle of 'subrogation', as is heavily larded on one broker's website, has ever been used against a renter and under what circumstances. As far as the deductible is concerned in my view that's an acceptable risk in the grand scheme of flying.
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: ask me tomorrow
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be very interesting to know if the principle of 'subrogation', as is heavily larded on one broker's website, has ever been used against a renter and under what circumstances. As far as the deductible is concerned in my view that's an acceptable risk in the grand scheme of flying.
The company I work for doesn't write a whole lot of flight school policies due to the obvious reason of high exposure vs. little premium(Joe PPL propstrikes a C-172 which wipes out the premium for 2 years, but then Shmoe PPL does it again the next year) but I can say subrogation can be pursued pretty fiercely by the insurance company. The more money involved, the more they'll go after it. For instance, a helicopter total loss causing the insurance company 1 mil dollars is a tough pill to swallow, so if there was some circumstance that caused the accident- failed part, bad maintenance, and it can be (sort of) proven, they'll go after the guilty party to recoup some money. They never get all of the money back, 50% return would not be a terrible outcome after all the attorneys are paid.
On a smaller scale, if Joe PPL is clearly at fault in an accident, subrogation is likely. The key to is it all is- can Joe PPL and his insurance company mount a reasonable defense? On the little stuff(physical damage) adjuster A might subrogate against adjuster B and they work some kind of split. Aviation claims is a small world and what goes around comes around, so we take that into consideration. If Joe PPL kills somebody and damages are in the hundreds of thousands, subro is very likely and the lawyers come out.
Again I don't see many renter's insurance claims, but I have seen small maintenance shops be subrogated against due to bad maintenance and if they didn't have insurance guess what? They paid out of their own pockets, and that's tough to witness. Moral of the story is that it doesn't hurt to have a decent insurance policy, renter or flying club, because when the sh!t hits the fan, you'll thank yourself for it.
The company I work for doesn't write a whole lot of flight school policies due to the obvious reason of high exposure vs. little premium(Joe PPL propstrikes a C-172 which wipes out the premium for 2 years, but then Shmoe PPL does it again the next year) but I can say subrogation can be pursued pretty fiercely by the insurance company. The more money involved, the more they'll go after it. For instance, a helicopter total loss causing the insurance company 1 mil dollars is a tough pill to swallow, so if there was some circumstance that caused the accident- failed part, bad maintenance, and it can be (sort of) proven, they'll go after the guilty party to recoup some money. They never get all of the money back, 50% return would not be a terrible outcome after all the attorneys are paid.
On a smaller scale, if Joe PPL is clearly at fault in an accident, subrogation is likely. The key to is it all is- can Joe PPL and his insurance company mount a reasonable defense? On the little stuff(physical damage) adjuster A might subrogate against adjuster B and they work some kind of split. Aviation claims is a small world and what goes around comes around, so we take that into consideration. If Joe PPL kills somebody and damages are in the hundreds of thousands, subro is very likely and the lawyers come out.
Again I don't see many renter's insurance claims, but I have seen small maintenance shops be subrogated against due to bad maintenance and if they didn't have insurance guess what? They paid out of their own pockets, and that's tough to witness. Moral of the story is that it doesn't hurt to have a decent insurance policy, renter or flying club, because when the sh!t hits the fan, you'll thank yourself for it.
