Can you help an ignorant Englishman?
Paid up
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you help an ignorant Englishman?
Can any one give me a quick run down on the FAA licensing system and specifically it's differences from the JAA?
Also, do I need a commercial license to instruct? I do realise a CFI rating is required.
Also, do I need a commercial license to instruct? I do realise a CFI rating is required.
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
faa
Hi,
I don't know much about the JAA system but the FAA does require you to hold a commercial certificate before you can get a CFI certificate.
However I believe you can work for a JAA flight school within the US with only JAA ratings however you cannot give logbook endorsements EG first solo etc... for a US registered airplane.
Conversion training is not a big deal and there are a million schools which offer cheap, quick conversion training.
Good luck
WEasil
I don't know much about the JAA system but the FAA does require you to hold a commercial certificate before you can get a CFI certificate.
However I believe you can work for a JAA flight school within the US with only JAA ratings however you cannot give logbook endorsements EG first solo etc... for a US registered airplane.
Conversion training is not a big deal and there are a million schools which offer cheap, quick conversion training.
Good luck
WEasil
Paid up
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Visa: Some flight schools offer a J1 "training-then-work-experience" visa, i.e. do your ratings with them and they'll give you paid employment as a CFI for 18 months or so.
Before anyone gets upset about taking work off struggling home-grown instructors, just think of the 1000's of people doing JAA in FL...not much work for CFI's in the UK!
So commercial ticket is required before CFI. Right.
So as regards the FAA licensing structure, the CPL (?) leads up to an ATP certificate, right?
Before anyone gets upset about taking work off struggling home-grown instructors, just think of the 1000's of people doing JAA in FL...not much work for CFI's in the UK!
So commercial ticket is required before CFI. Right.
So as regards the FAA licensing structure, the CPL (?) leads up to an ATP certificate, right?
As 'in a nutshell' as I can make it:
'Certificates' (read 'licence') are divided by level & by vehicle class.
Levels: Student Pilot, Private Pilot, Commercial Pilot, Air Transport Pilot
The level of certificate limits (or authorises) what types of operations you may do.
Class: Single engine land, multi engine land, single engine sea, multi engine sea, rotorcraft (land or sea? Multi or single? Not sure), Glider, Balloon
This specifies on what sort of equipment you may exercise the privileges of your certificate.
Some a/c types - typically those over 5700kg MTOW - require a specific rating before you can exercise your privileges, others are covered by the generic class.
An instructor rating can only be added to a commercial or ATP.
All these certificates, including instructor & instrument, require you to pass a theory exam & a flight test.
All these exams for each certificate are a single multi choice exam. They're attempted on demand using a computer. Your results are marked immediately on completion. Your official result slip is printed on the spot and that's the end of it. Don't lose the slip because YOU are responsible for making it available to your flight test examiner ("check airman"). The FAA don't keep records of individual results.
All questions & all responses in all the FAA's exam databanks must be available under the freedom of information legislation. The FAA is not required to specify which response is the correct one, but various companies publish exam 'texts' that do this for you.
Each of these certificates also has a flight test to be passed ("Check flight"). Every single sequence that must be tested for the certificate is published (the F.O.I. laws again) is published in the FAA's 'Guide to the conduct of xxxx flight test'.
Flight tests all involve a period on the ground being questioned in detail about how you would legally conduct the sort of operations your soon-to-be-gained certificate will allow. If you don't pass this you won't even get airborne.
It is part of the check airman's responsibility to check to see that you meet all requirements for the issue of the certificate for which you're being tested - hence the reason NOT to lose your exam result!!!
An instrument rating can be added to any licence from private and up. There is no distinction between say private & commercial instrument ratings.
An ATP carries with it the equivalent of an instrument rating. The flight test basically an IR test but to some higher tolerances.
An instructor certificate can be added to a commercial or ATP. Available certificates include Certified Flight Instructor (for s/e), CFI Instruments (for IR instruction), and CFI Multi (what it says!).
Initial issues of professional licences/Instrument & insructor ratings/class 1 medicals DON'T have to be done with the 'department'. Anyone who holds the test approval can do the test.
My opinion: A far better system than UK or JAR.
'Certificates' (read 'licence') are divided by level & by vehicle class.
Levels: Student Pilot, Private Pilot, Commercial Pilot, Air Transport Pilot
The level of certificate limits (or authorises) what types of operations you may do.
Class: Single engine land, multi engine land, single engine sea, multi engine sea, rotorcraft (land or sea? Multi or single? Not sure), Glider, Balloon
This specifies on what sort of equipment you may exercise the privileges of your certificate.
Some a/c types - typically those over 5700kg MTOW - require a specific rating before you can exercise your privileges, others are covered by the generic class.
An instructor rating can only be added to a commercial or ATP.
All these certificates, including instructor & instrument, require you to pass a theory exam & a flight test.
All these exams for each certificate are a single multi choice exam. They're attempted on demand using a computer. Your results are marked immediately on completion. Your official result slip is printed on the spot and that's the end of it. Don't lose the slip because YOU are responsible for making it available to your flight test examiner ("check airman"). The FAA don't keep records of individual results.
All questions & all responses in all the FAA's exam databanks must be available under the freedom of information legislation. The FAA is not required to specify which response is the correct one, but various companies publish exam 'texts' that do this for you.
Each of these certificates also has a flight test to be passed ("Check flight"). Every single sequence that must be tested for the certificate is published (the F.O.I. laws again) is published in the FAA's 'Guide to the conduct of xxxx flight test'.
Flight tests all involve a period on the ground being questioned in detail about how you would legally conduct the sort of operations your soon-to-be-gained certificate will allow. If you don't pass this you won't even get airborne.
It is part of the check airman's responsibility to check to see that you meet all requirements for the issue of the certificate for which you're being tested - hence the reason NOT to lose your exam result!!!
An instrument rating can be added to any licence from private and up. There is no distinction between say private & commercial instrument ratings.
An ATP carries with it the equivalent of an instrument rating. The flight test basically an IR test but to some higher tolerances.
An instructor certificate can be added to a commercial or ATP. Available certificates include Certified Flight Instructor (for s/e), CFI Instruments (for IR instruction), and CFI Multi (what it says!).
Initial issues of professional licences/Instrument & insructor ratings/class 1 medicals DON'T have to be done with the 'department'. Anyone who holds the test approval can do the test.
My opinion: A far better system than UK or JAR.
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tinstaafl,
Nice summary.. a few corrections though,
1.
the FAA DOES keep records of all individual written test results. If you lose your written test then they can send you an official copy which will suffice.
2.
An instrument does not necessarily transfer between classes of pilot certificate. IE. When adding a multiengine class rating to an existing pilot certificate you have to perform instrument tasks as well as VFR tasks if you want your instrument rating to cover multi engine flying.
3.
Initial FLight Instructor flight tests for the most part DO have to be done with the FAA unless they grant you permission to take the test with a designated examiner due to them being too busy.
4.
Not every examiner can give flight tests for every license.. it depends on the individual examiner's approval.
Nice summary.. a few corrections though,
1.
the FAA DOES keep records of all individual written test results. If you lose your written test then they can send you an official copy which will suffice.
2.
An instrument does not necessarily transfer between classes of pilot certificate. IE. When adding a multiengine class rating to an existing pilot certificate you have to perform instrument tasks as well as VFR tasks if you want your instrument rating to cover multi engine flying.
3.
Initial FLight Instructor flight tests for the most part DO have to be done with the FAA unless they grant you permission to take the test with a designated examiner due to them being too busy.
4.
Not every examiner can give flight tests for every license.. it depends on the individual examiner's approval.
Thanks for that Weasil,
The record keeping aspect of results must have changed since I converted to an FAA ATPL. The advice slip definitely had something printed on it about it + a copy held at the school being the only official record of result.
I didn't even think to mention that a s/e instrument rating won't transfer to a m/e aircraft without additional testing. That's fairly common amongst various countries.
Didn't know that the instructor rating generally must be taken with the FAA. Only ever instructed in Oz where outside testing officers is the norm, and was sure I've seen non-FAA instructor examiners in the U.S.
regards
T.
The record keeping aspect of results must have changed since I converted to an FAA ATPL. The advice slip definitely had something printed on it about it + a copy held at the school being the only official record of result.
I didn't even think to mention that a s/e instrument rating won't transfer to a m/e aircraft without additional testing. That's fairly common amongst various countries.
Didn't know that the instructor rating generally must be taken with the FAA. Only ever instructed in Oz where outside testing officers is the norm, and was sure I've seen non-FAA instructor examiners in the U.S.
regards
T.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tin..
I don't believe that the CFI (initial) must be taken with FAA anymore.
Pre 9/11, yes...but Orlando (which does more of them than any other regional office) has closed down it's entire testing facility and put the testing back out to industry guys.
Miami and Tampa have done the same. CFI testing (unfortunately) back to the local examiners.
Was also told (may not be true) that the FAA does NOT keep records of written tests...copies of lost certificates must be obtained from the Company that set the exam...not the individual school where you took the exam...but the exam board - LaserGrade, Sylvan, Cats..etc.
I don't believe that the CFI (initial) must be taken with FAA anymore.
Pre 9/11, yes...but Orlando (which does more of them than any other regional office) has closed down it's entire testing facility and put the testing back out to industry guys.
Miami and Tampa have done the same. CFI testing (unfortunately) back to the local examiners.
Was also told (may not be true) that the FAA does NOT keep records of written tests...copies of lost certificates must be obtained from the Company that set the exam...not the individual school where you took the exam...but the exam board - LaserGrade, Sylvan, Cats..etc.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gone west...the FAA has vacillated between requiring and not requiring the CFI to be taken with an FAA inspector, as opposed to a pilot examiner.....been gone from it 20 yrs + not sure what's current......any current type examiners out there tell me if the FAA will add a type rating to an FAA atp when one holds it on a foreign licence without a type-exam with the faa?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ironbutt57
Nope, they wont. If you want your "foreign" type on your US certificate, you'll have to do the type check all over again with the Feds or DE in a US aircraft. Makes no difference if you've been flying it for years and thousands of hours and your current.
Politics.
Politics.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However IB57...if by chance that type on the foreign license is an obsolete or not often used type, you can obtain a LOA from the FAA to serve as PIC....but no pax or cargo and not for hire.
