Kansas State or Arizona State
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Kansas State or Arizona State
Afternoon
Both Colleges offer pro flight programs with the bacehlors degree, Arizona with CRJ Jet intro and the interview with mesa, i know i know, times are looking bad at the moment, but this will be in 4 years. So maybe it will be a good thing? Kansas on the other said actually puts me in a Cessna C500 for about 20 hours and another 15 on the King Air 350. What do you guys recomend?
Both Colleges offer pro flight programs with the bacehlors degree, Arizona with CRJ Jet intro and the interview with mesa, i know i know, times are looking bad at the moment, but this will be in 4 years. So maybe it will be a good thing? Kansas on the other said actually puts me in a Cessna C500 for about 20 hours and another 15 on the King Air 350. What do you guys recomend?
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Ryan,
If you graduate their program with several hundred hours and a little SIC time in a Citation...that makes you a several hundred hour pilot. Nobody is going to hire you into a Citation. You'll come out of the program qualified to teach in piston Cessnas...just like you would if you attended a local flight school or the FBO down the road. The difference is that doing the training for a higher cost with the university.
You're on the right track in wanting a degree, and getting one in aviation isn't wrong. However, consider the significance of "putting all your eggs in one basket." Every few years the aviation business tanks, and it's not uncommon to find yourself out of work. If you're going to spend four years seeking a degree, why not come out with a trade or certification or skill that isn't tied to aviation, so you have options?
If you graduate their program with several hundred hours and a little SIC time in a Citation...that makes you a several hundred hour pilot. Nobody is going to hire you into a Citation. You'll come out of the program qualified to teach in piston Cessnas...just like you would if you attended a local flight school or the FBO down the road. The difference is that doing the training for a higher cost with the university.
You're on the right track in wanting a degree, and getting one in aviation isn't wrong. However, consider the significance of "putting all your eggs in one basket." Every few years the aviation business tanks, and it's not uncommon to find yourself out of work. If you're going to spend four years seeking a degree, why not come out with a trade or certification or skill that isn't tied to aviation, so you have options?
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First you need to decide which area of aviation you would like to proceed toward, that being Corporate or Airline. As it appears that Kansas is tending toward Corporate with the King Air and the Citation. Does the Arizona program offer you actually flight hours a CRJ?
In four years you will be 21/22 years old with not a lot of total time. At the highest I would assume you would have a Commercial, Instrument and Instrument ratings, and possibility a CFI no matter which University you chose to attend. To secure a job as a pilot in the Corporate world with such low total time would very difficult, if not impossible.
With that being said, I would tend to go with the Arizona program and peruse a Regional Airline position. However, a little more information about both programs would help me advise you. Such as, how much total time do you expect to have when you graduate and what type of degree will you receive.
In any case, good luck to you.
There is always the military to consider.
In four years you will be 21/22 years old with not a lot of total time. At the highest I would assume you would have a Commercial, Instrument and Instrument ratings, and possibility a CFI no matter which University you chose to attend. To secure a job as a pilot in the Corporate world with such low total time would very difficult, if not impossible.
With that being said, I would tend to go with the Arizona program and peruse a Regional Airline position. However, a little more information about both programs would help me advise you. Such as, how much total time do you expect to have when you graduate and what type of degree will you receive.
In any case, good luck to you.
There is always the military to consider.
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i would go with asu the girls there are amazing and the weather is always good enought to fly. as per the low hours i would imagine that in 4 years if mesa is still around they will probably give you an interview with only 300 hrs. again the girls at asu are great.
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Hey Guys!
Thanks for the Feedback!
For Con-Pilot, both programs go up to CFI Multi Engine. With ASU i come out with 300 hours at age 21 and 20 hours on a Non motion CRJ-200 Sim and 4 hours on a Full Motion Sim, and they usually hire you as a FI if things are looking bad with mesa for a year or two and FI's usually get 500 hours a year. With Kansas State i come out with 270 hours with my CFI Multi Engine and abotu 310 with a few hours with the Citation and King Air. The Degree Recieved is Aeronautical Managment with ASU and Applied science with KSU. I plan to Double Major or atleast Minor in something tottally different no matter what college i go to.
Heres KSU's Program Page:K-STATE AT SALINA - Aviation
And ASU:ASU's Polytechnic campus :: Aeronautical Management Technology
Thanks for the Feedback!
For Con-Pilot, both programs go up to CFI Multi Engine. With ASU i come out with 300 hours at age 21 and 20 hours on a Non motion CRJ-200 Sim and 4 hours on a Full Motion Sim, and they usually hire you as a FI if things are looking bad with mesa for a year or two and FI's usually get 500 hours a year. With Kansas State i come out with 270 hours with my CFI Multi Engine and abotu 310 with a few hours with the Citation and King Air. The Degree Recieved is Aeronautical Managment with ASU and Applied science with KSU. I plan to Double Major or atleast Minor in something tottally different no matter what college i go to.
Heres KSU's Program Page:K-STATE AT SALINA - Aviation
And ASU:ASU's Polytechnic campus :: Aeronautical Management Technology
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I tend to favor getting a technical non-aviation degree and pursuing your flying on the side. It's cheaper and you've got a real fallback position. A previous poster mentioned the military, which is certainly a great option especially if you can get a ROTC scholarship. That stated, if your heart is set on an aviation college program, then this
is as good a reason to choose as any. Unfortunately, I've spent a lot of time in Kansas and the girls there are awesome as well. Visit both campuses and decide which girls --- errr --- degree programs give you the best vibes.
Seriously, campus visits are critical. Meet some department heads, professors, and students. There's a bit more action overall in Tempe than Salina, but a lot of that might not your "thing". Factor those experiences into your analysis. Your outlook could change completely.
And have fun. College is a blast!
i would go with asu the girls there are amazing
Seriously, campus visits are critical. Meet some department heads, professors, and students. There's a bit more action overall in Tempe than Salina, but a lot of that might not your "thing". Factor those experiences into your analysis. Your outlook could change completely.
And have fun. College is a blast!
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 21st Nov 2008 at 14:08.
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Hey Rotorhead!
Thanks for the Reply! Ive visited both Campuses and Enjoyed Tempe. Unfortunately since i am a international student no matter were i apply i will always be burnt with Out of state tuition so the Difference between getting my degree and flying on the side and actually getting the flight program is actually less then 5 thousand dollars when i compare UT Dallas and Sky mates at Dallas(if there's something a lot cheaper PLEASE Let me know!). What do you think about Double Majoring? Tempe Offers courses like Pro Golf Management and different types of Business degrees. And before i get bashed on as to why im training here when i have no Green card, were actually in the process of applying for it, so with some luck hopefully by senior year ill have my Green card. Any Feedback would be great
Thanks for the Reply! Ive visited both Campuses and Enjoyed Tempe. Unfortunately since i am a international student no matter were i apply i will always be burnt with Out of state tuition so the Difference between getting my degree and flying on the side and actually getting the flight program is actually less then 5 thousand dollars when i compare UT Dallas and Sky mates at Dallas(if there's something a lot cheaper PLEASE Let me know!). What do you think about Double Majoring? Tempe Offers courses like Pro Golf Management and different types of Business degrees. And before i get bashed on as to why im training here when i have no Green card, were actually in the process of applying for it, so with some luck hopefully by senior year ill have my Green card. Any Feedback would be great
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UT Dallas and Sky mates at Dallas(if there's something a lot cheaper PLEASE Let me know!)
Oh, and I almost forgot. Interview with Mesa? Nice. I see Mesa has had some input into the program. What's important is how many are hired, and how many are hired from other programs. Do you really have a competitive advantage attending one school over another? I don't know. You need to find out.
If your heart is set on flying, the second major would be a waste of time. As a backup it could help you, and might count towards an advanced degree if aviation doesn't work out and you go back to school. It seems you're having your cake and eating it, too - a non-aviation degree as a back up while enrolled in an aviation program. It's a good idea, but it's also a HUGE amount of work to be worthwhile. Double major in something that will impress a prospective (non-aviation) employer. Anything with "golf" in it won't do the trick, frankly. If you've got the time and smarts, do something scientific or technical. If that's too much, find something that dovetails with your aviation management classes - perhaps a business degree. However, if the second degree is really worthwhile I doubt you can do it in four years. Now we're back to just getting the technical degree alone (in four years or a little more) and flying on the side - which suddenly looks a lot more cost-effective than a five year (or more) double major at an aviation program school.
Either way may work for you, and there's a lot more involved than money - the more expensive way may be more in tune with your plans, likes, and dislikes. A lot of good people go to Purdue, Riddle, etc. and do fine. It's not necessarily something you can analyze on a spreadsheet. Stop and think. You will be taking real courses, in real time , with real professors. Some of the courses will be harder than hell. With two majors, most of them will - and you are flying too. How long can you keep that up? At 14 hours per grading period (five plus year program), you're okay. At 19 hours - it's really tough.
If I were picking again, I'd do my BSME again with some business courses, fly on the side, then pick up an MBA while instructing. Five year program (well, closer to six), two degrees, and my ratings. I actually did an MBA while instructing, but it was a Master of Beer Administration. Not a productive use of time.
All of these options take megabucks. Hope you have a scholarship available, or a rich uncle.
Again, the technical degree is for non-aviation use. Nobody hired me for a flying job because I had an engineering degree. It just checked off the "degree" box. It has been useful in other areas.
Like I said, college is a blast - but for it to be worthwhile you're going to have to work. Hard.
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 21st Nov 2008 at 08:37. Reason: Mesa addendum
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Hey Rotorhead
The ASU Pro Flight Program is actually more then 80 percent owned by mesa, it belongs to the Mesa Pilot devolpment.According to the staff i was talking to at the Flight Dispatchers office ,if Mesa dont hire you as a pilot they will use you as a Dispatcher/Ramp Agent at KPHX/KLAS, or of course you have the option to continue as FI under Mesa in the ASU branch. When it actually does come time to hire the Dispatcher who was about 22 with 800 TT mentioned that over 60 percent of accepted pilots came from the Mesa Pilot Devolpment program. I must say rotorhead i like the idea of getting a Minor/Associates while a FI under Mesa if im not a pilot at the airline! I like the city of phoenix and the location is great! Ive already been accepted into the program at KSU and i guess if im at KSU and a FI id go ahead and minor in something related to buisness. Both ASU/KSU programs are 4 years and whatever extra is the for the Minor/Associates/or even Bacehlors?
I really appreciate the feedback and i will use it to my advantage.
The ASU Pro Flight Program is actually more then 80 percent owned by mesa, it belongs to the Mesa Pilot devolpment.According to the staff i was talking to at the Flight Dispatchers office ,if Mesa dont hire you as a pilot they will use you as a Dispatcher/Ramp Agent at KPHX/KLAS, or of course you have the option to continue as FI under Mesa in the ASU branch. When it actually does come time to hire the Dispatcher who was about 22 with 800 TT mentioned that over 60 percent of accepted pilots came from the Mesa Pilot Devolpment program. I must say rotorhead i like the idea of getting a Minor/Associates while a FI under Mesa if im not a pilot at the airline! I like the city of phoenix and the location is great! Ive already been accepted into the program at KSU and i guess if im at KSU and a FI id go ahead and minor in something related to buisness. Both ASU/KSU programs are 4 years and whatever extra is the for the Minor/Associates/or even Bacehlors?
I really appreciate the feedback and i will use it to my advantage.
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Ryan,
Just wanted to make sure that you had the correct information. The King Air at KSU is a C90, not a 350. They have a citation and will be getting another jet before you graduate. The applied technology degree is an associates degree (2 year program). The Bachelor's degree is a Bachelor's of Science in Aeronautical Technology. KSU also has a hiring program setup with Mesaba Airlines as well. They also have a unique program setup with the FlightSafety International companies in Wichita in which certain students receive type ratings in certain airplanes and are hired to conduct sim support for them. The are also well known with Raytheon and Cessna, both of which consistently take KSU grads. Not to mention that Boeing and Bombardier have facilities in Wichita as well.
In my opinion, the simulator time in the CRJ isn't that great. That is mainly systems training and some CRM. Not to mention, you cannot log simulator time as aircraft flight time, so it's not turbojet time.
Be wary of being in a hurry to get a job with Mesa. Mesa is by far not the best regional to be hired on with. Yes, it's an airline job, but when you are ready for that job, really take a hard look out there at all the regionals, their contracts, their morale, etc., and you will definitely find better regionals to be on with. Mesaba, Expressjet, Eagle, Air Wisconsin, etc. (just a few to name). By the time that you are ready (i.e. graduated), there will be more regionals hiring than just Mesa.
Keep looking at all the information before you make a decision. Hope some of that helps shine some more light for you.
Good luck.
Just wanted to make sure that you had the correct information. The King Air at KSU is a C90, not a 350. They have a citation and will be getting another jet before you graduate. The applied technology degree is an associates degree (2 year program). The Bachelor's degree is a Bachelor's of Science in Aeronautical Technology. KSU also has a hiring program setup with Mesaba Airlines as well. They also have a unique program setup with the FlightSafety International companies in Wichita in which certain students receive type ratings in certain airplanes and are hired to conduct sim support for them. The are also well known with Raytheon and Cessna, both of which consistently take KSU grads. Not to mention that Boeing and Bombardier have facilities in Wichita as well.
In my opinion, the simulator time in the CRJ isn't that great. That is mainly systems training and some CRM. Not to mention, you cannot log simulator time as aircraft flight time, so it's not turbojet time.
Be wary of being in a hurry to get a job with Mesa. Mesa is by far not the best regional to be hired on with. Yes, it's an airline job, but when you are ready for that job, really take a hard look out there at all the regionals, their contracts, their morale, etc., and you will definitely find better regionals to be on with. Mesaba, Expressjet, Eagle, Air Wisconsin, etc. (just a few to name). By the time that you are ready (i.e. graduated), there will be more regionals hiring than just Mesa.
Keep looking at all the information before you make a decision. Hope some of that helps shine some more light for you.
Good luck.
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Thanks For the Great amount of Information Frank!
With what you have described about k-state im guessing you work(ed)/lived(ed)/study(ied) over at salina? If so what do you think about the city? The only reason im at a prefrence to ASU atm is because of the Area, but im very adaptable so its not such a biggie!
With what you have described about k-state im guessing you work(ed)/lived(ed)/study(ied) over at salina? If so what do you think about the city? The only reason im at a prefrence to ASU atm is because of the Area, but im very adaptable so its not such a biggie!
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Ryan,
I have done all three, went to school there, lived there, worked there. I really enjoyed Salina. I also lived, worked, and went to school in Manhattan as well. Salina has more of the small town feel with some bigger city functions. Outdoors and sporting events are good there if you are proactive and get out. Lots of recreational activities. Night life is decent. KC is just two hours down the road and Manhattan is around an hour. Wichita to the south. So you can always get out of Salina if needed. It's a midwest town with lots of great attitudes. You won't find a nicer guy than B.G., the Section Head and Master CFI there. He goes out of his way to help. You can't step anywhere in the aviation world without someone knowing him. He's been doing this a long time.
Like I said, I enjoyed it and it was the right fit for me. It started my career and has lead to numerous opportunities for me as I continue with my career. I still stay in touch with the University, both main campus and Salina campus and am very active with KState activities. And I graduated almost 15 years ago. I still have very good friends, all over the world now, that went to school there.
Bottom line, find the fit for you.
Best of luck
F.G.M.P.
I have done all three, went to school there, lived there, worked there. I really enjoyed Salina. I also lived, worked, and went to school in Manhattan as well. Salina has more of the small town feel with some bigger city functions. Outdoors and sporting events are good there if you are proactive and get out. Lots of recreational activities. Night life is decent. KC is just two hours down the road and Manhattan is around an hour. Wichita to the south. So you can always get out of Salina if needed. It's a midwest town with lots of great attitudes. You won't find a nicer guy than B.G., the Section Head and Master CFI there. He goes out of his way to help. You can't step anywhere in the aviation world without someone knowing him. He's been doing this a long time.
Like I said, I enjoyed it and it was the right fit for me. It started my career and has lead to numerous opportunities for me as I continue with my career. I still stay in touch with the University, both main campus and Salina campus and am very active with KState activities. And I graduated almost 15 years ago. I still have very good friends, all over the world now, that went to school there.
Bottom line, find the fit for you.
Best of luck
F.G.M.P.
