FAA english endorsment
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In order to appease you and to improve my English I called a good friend of mine who's a 121 inspector at the OKC FSDO. He said he's not heard of a new "levels of English proficiency" requirement on our certificates.
I too fly primarily overseas but have never been faced with your dilemma. Might be your English after all... Just keedin'
You probably ran into an overzelous inspector...
Many foreign airlines use the scale to weed out some applicants but I'd love to see this "English proficiency" test being administered here in the US.
La Raza would demand a "Press 2 for Spanish" option, the Confederate Society of America would lobby for making the Southern dialect a recognized level 6 English, while the United Negro College (yes, that's the official name of the institute!) would demand an aviation version of Ebonics, etc., etc.
In a nutshell, a new civil war...
PS. My spell checker is out of service 2day.
I too fly primarily overseas but have never been faced with your dilemma. Might be your English after all... Just keedin'
You probably ran into an overzelous inspector...
Many foreign airlines use the scale to weed out some applicants but I'd love to see this "English proficiency" test being administered here in the US.
La Raza would demand a "Press 2 for Spanish" option, the Confederate Society of America would lobby for making the Southern dialect a recognized level 6 English, while the United Negro College (yes, that's the official name of the institute!) would demand an aviation version of Ebonics, etc., etc.
In a nutshell, a new civil war...
PS. My spell checker is out of service 2day.
Last edited by USav8or; 24th Apr 2010 at 10:13.
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Quote: ".....the FAA screwing up the paperwork because we are the only hold out on this....."
I have just checked my Canadian ATPL in the new encyclopaedia sized book format that has been introduced over the past year or so. It has two relevant abbreviations: "LP" for language proficiency and "EN" for English. There is no number. As Canada is a nominally bilingual country there is also provision for the inclusion of "FR" for French for those proficient in that language. Therefor the FAA is not alone. The second largest country in world aviation also simply states the language without a number. Together these two countries make up more than 40% of world aviation. Perhaps the small fry need to get rid of their tail wags the dog attitude and conform with what the major countries apply!
I have just checked my Canadian ATPL in the new encyclopaedia sized book format that has been introduced over the past year or so. It has two relevant abbreviations: "LP" for language proficiency and "EN" for English. There is no number. As Canada is a nominally bilingual country there is also provision for the inclusion of "FR" for French for those proficient in that language. Therefor the FAA is not alone. The second largest country in world aviation also simply states the language without a number. Together these two countries make up more than 40% of world aviation. Perhaps the small fry need to get rid of their tail wags the dog attitude and conform with what the major countries apply!
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"I have just checked my Canadian ATPL in the new encyclopaedia sized book format that has been introduced over the past year or so. It has two relevant abbreviations: "LP" for language proficiency and "EN" for English. There is no number. As Canada is a nominally bilingual country there is also provision for the inclusion of "FR" for French for those proficient in that language. Therefor the FAA is not alone. The second largest country in world aviation also simply states the language without a number. Together these two countries make up more than 40% of world aviation. Perhaps the small fry need to get rid of their tail wags the dog attitude and conform with what the major countries apply!"
Good post. I checked again with my friend (okc FSDO) and he said all US with "English proficient" endorsement are level 4 or higher. No plans for adding actual levels. In his own words - you pass or you don't - no need for "artificial levels." In the end the FAA would have to hire tons of people to do this "English testing." Not to mention that the ACLU would have a fit over the "discriminatory" aspect of the test - think Hispanics.
We're already short on money - summary - ain't gonna happen (that's English level VII)
Good post. I checked again with my friend (okc FSDO) and he said all US with "English proficient" endorsement are level 4 or higher. No plans for adding actual levels. In his own words - you pass or you don't - no need for "artificial levels." In the end the FAA would have to hire tons of people to do this "English testing." Not to mention that the ACLU would have a fit over the "discriminatory" aspect of the test - think Hispanics.
We're already short on money - summary - ain't gonna happen (that's English level VII)
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SE Asia, FAA English Prof conversion
I've had jobs flying in China and Malaysia over the last few years, and I have had to take an English test for each of those. The test in China was not an ICAO test, but given by the CAAC. It was similar to the test I later took, from RMIT Australia for the Malaysian license, since Malaysian DCA does not accept the FAA English Endorsement for license conversion. The test is not overly expensive, and it is possible to do the prep and the test in the same day, but I do agree that it is not something that is nice to have to do, as a native speaker. Each country seems to have their own version of the test, and I know of at least 4 different versions and formats in SE Asia. Validations seem to be possible without the ICAO 4-6 "stamp", but full conversions require it in some form or another. I have no idea about the ME, Africa, or EU.
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address change without my knowledge
sorry if just a slight bit off topic but this seems the only recent relevant thread to inquire about an address change as well....
Does anyone know how the FAA would already have my new address in their system WITHOUT me giving it to them. I already inquired at my airline and nothing like that is passed along to the FAA by them. We moved a couple of months ago and finally bought the place we were renting so I went to go change my address online and it already showed the new one??? What the....???? Can they retrieve this info from other sources....IRS? Bank? Utilities etc... maybe a crewdec from customs???
I am just highly curious.
Does anyone know how the FAA would already have my new address in their system WITHOUT me giving it to them. I already inquired at my airline and nothing like that is passed along to the FAA by them. We moved a couple of months ago and finally bought the place we were renting so I went to go change my address online and it already showed the new one??? What the....???? Can they retrieve this info from other sources....IRS? Bank? Utilities etc... maybe a crewdec from customs???
I am just highly curious.
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English Proficient on your license means ICAO level 4. The FAA has a website. I haven't been on it for a while but you can download an official letter that states that "English Proficient means the license holder is ICAO level 4" If you have to prove it, print the letter off their website, and carry it with you.
More fun stuff? Look at where it is printed on your license. It is not printed under "ratings" it is printed under "limitations". Some countries view this as you have a limitation that you are not english proficient!!!!!
Why did they put it their. Your gonna love this. The software package that makes the new licenses only lets them put it there.
Ask me how I know this all???? LOL
More fun stuff? Look at where it is printed on your license. It is not printed under "ratings" it is printed under "limitations". Some countries view this as you have a limitation that you are not english proficient!!!!!
Why did they put it their. Your gonna love this. The software package that makes the new licenses only lets them put it there.
Ask me how I know this all???? LOL
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Hi PROBEUSMC
If you have any time to find the link to that FAA letter that states that "English Proficient means the license holder is ICAO level 4" I would be most grateful if you could post it here. I don't seem to be able to find it by myself though I spent quite some time on their website.
If you have any time to find the link to that FAA letter that states that "English Proficient means the license holder is ICAO level 4" I would be most grateful if you could post it here. I don't seem to be able to find it by myself though I spent quite some time on their website.
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Info 08012 FAA English proficient = level 4
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Our present requirement for pilots is level 5 for first officer and level 6 for Captains, this is after we discovered that the automatic issue of Level 4 was a joke!
Mutt
Which Company ?
Mutt
Which Company ?
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from the FAA document:
Technically, it would mean that retesting is necessary every two years, correct?
What a mess...
The FAA’s issuance of an “English Proficient” endorsement on a U.S. airman certificate attests that the airman meets the Level 4 operational standards found in ICAO Annex 1
What a mess...
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3 licences and two levels of ELP
My GCAA (UAE) has level 6 entered, as I took the test, by a German.
The FAA and JAA was automatic, and just ELP, ie level 4.
Is there such a beast as Level 6 ELP issued by JAA.
I agree that there are many pilots with level 4 who can not string two words together in English, yet they have ELP 4.
Can I get a job with you Mutt.
Glf
The FAA and JAA was automatic, and just ELP, ie level 4.
Is there such a beast as Level 6 ELP issued by JAA.
I agree that there are many pilots with level 4 who can not string two words together in English, yet they have ELP 4.
Can I get a job with you Mutt.
Glf
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I must be missing something but why is the current FAA approach considered a 'joke' or a 'mess'?
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English Proficient = Icao level 4 ... and both FAA and JAA know that!
Now for JAA and FAA level 4 is more than enough both for domestic and flag flights.
Some other organizations (especially if you are not a native speaker) they required an icao english certificate with at least a 4 and in same other cases they want a 6 (the max you can get).
To get a higher icao english level you need to take a test called TEA (Test of English for Aviation)
Test of English for Aviation - T.E.A.
Now for JAA and FAA level 4 is more than enough both for domestic and flag flights.
Some other organizations (especially if you are not a native speaker) they required an icao english certificate with at least a 4 and in same other cases they want a 6 (the max you can get).
To get a higher icao english level you need to take a test called TEA (Test of English for Aviation)
Test of English for Aviation - T.E.A.
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... is the TEA certificate valid also with an FAA license?
the FAA recognize the TEA certificate and instead of just saying 'English proficient' can they change it with a level 6?
an answer from an FAA representative would be greatly appreciated! thanks
the FAA recognize the TEA certificate and instead of just saying 'English proficient' can they change it with a level 6?
an answer from an FAA representative would be greatly appreciated! thanks
Then you should probably call the FAA.
However I deal with them a fair amount.
You would have to ask the TEA people. I can't see why having a pilot certificate from the FAA would invalidate a language certification from TEA.
Are you asking if the FAA recognizes a TEA certificate? The answer would be no. When you take the checkride with the Inspector/Examiner, one of the things they check is that you are able to communicate in English. They don't perform a separate English test but if you do not understand their questions and are not able to form answers, you will not pass the checkride.
Are you asking if the FAA can change what is on your certificate to a level 6 if you have a certificate from TEA? Again, the answer would be no. All the FAA puts on the certificate is "English Proficient." You either are or are not.
S
However I deal with them a fair amount.
Code:
is the TEA certificate valid also with an FAA license?
Are you asking if the FAA recognizes a TEA certificate? The answer would be no. When you take the checkride with the Inspector/Examiner, one of the things they check is that you are able to communicate in English. They don't perform a separate English test but if you do not understand their questions and are not able to form answers, you will not pass the checkride.
the FAA recognize the TEA certificate and instead of just saying 'English proficient' can they change it with a level 6?
S
