Employment Situation in USA??

[Artificial Horizon]

Have just obtained a greencard for the USA and are now seriously considering a move to the states. Currently working for British Airways, 4000 hrs TT, 1000 Jet FO, 1200 Turbine 1800 Instructing. What sort of work would these hours make me competitive for?? Also I notice by looking on various websites that airlines like JetBlue have an hourly rate for new FO of $51/hour with 70 hours guaranteed each month. Is this the total component of your take home pay or is there a basic wage in addition?? Pretty basic questions, I just need to start building a picture to see whether I should be considering a move of employer or consider moving to the east coast and commute to work in London on a long haul fleet.

[varigflier]

Hello,

I am in a situation similar to you but I moved overseas after living there for most of my life to fly for a major airline and I am now considering moving back to the states. Check out www.flightinfo.com You can get a good picture of the industry on that site. Also for pay scales check out www.airlinepilotcentral.com
Just a question, why would you want to live BA and start all over at another airline???

[Amin]

Moving to US

Regional airlines are hiring big time, but the majors not so promising . Southwest Airlines are hiring, but belive me 16000 pilots are on file. Most senior captains that work for regional airlines are sending their CV's overseas to fly bigger airplanes and make more money. Can't belive you are leaving British Airways for an airline in US. Anyway good luck

[Griffin]

...

What I`ve heard from a friend in BA the new pension agreement is a real disgrace. Maybe thats why You are moving away?

[Artificial Horizon]

I thought that I had acheived all that I wanted at BA but after joining realised all was not it seemed. Roster is pretty bad, pension is appalling and operating out of Heathrow is just a nightmare!! Add to that the constant disruption due to various segments of our so called loyal team going on unannounced strike and the whole thing is just one big grind. Oh and did I forget to mention the 20 years to command!! Only plus that I have found so far is that staff travel is pretty good..... that is currently under review though.

[noflow]

What kind of retirement plan is offered by BA?
If you work in the USA you will either have to make some good real estate investments or plan on retiring in Guatemala or other country with affordable housing and medical care. You will not be able to stay here and enjoy a decent quality of life with the combination of 401K and whatever is left of social security. In general I think Europe is a better place to retire. In the US we just kick the old people to the street. Many cannot afford their prescription drugs since there are no price controls here like you have in Europe. Drug companies and medical providers can charge a fortune.

I'd stay put. Somehow I think that once you come over here you'll find that the industry is a mess in the states as well.

[Roadtrip]

There's plenty of pilot jobs in the US. The only problem is that they are crap jobs that pay poorly and working for bad companies.

[Round D. Globe]

I agree with the angryblackman and everyone else for that matter.

Stay at BA! I have a very good friend who is at BA and he is an American
who as a new hire started in the 777. That would never happen at a U.S. carrier. He is also quite a bit older than you are and will probably never see the left seat at BA and he couldn't care less. It is better at BA as a f/o than at many (not all mind you) US carriers as a Captain.

Now if you can figure out a way to get us American's over there at BA
(without marrying a Brit that is).

RDG

[westhawk]

While the major airline job market looks as though it is going to pick up in the coming year, the first year pay and benefits will take several years to catch up with reality, if ever. Any pay advertised in the US is gross pay. Not what you will take home. On typical first year pay, I couldn't even rent an apartment, much less afford to eat in a junior city like Los Angeles or San Fransisco. The only way things will ever change is if qualified pilots simply won't accept the job.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[BritishGuy]

Ahhhh....I don't post often, but this one topic I couldn't help myself on. PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND STAY PUT AT BA!!!

I can't stress that enough.

I am a Brit, with a Green Card working for a regional here in the US. Believe me, I'm trying to get my JAA exams done to get away from this place. The pay is AWFUL. Seniority lists here are clogged up and though command here at regionals are 2-3 years (Generally) the pay is AWFUL even then. Even at the majors the pay is AWFUL. Only the figures at the top of the scale see nice and rosy, but other than that it's not. Southwest seems to be the place everyone wants to go but with every man and his dog wanting to go there - chances aren't high. Some captain at my place that for every 10 they interview only 2 are hired. And with the ex-military boys in the hiring squad now, unless you're a 'good ol boy in blue' who has military time it's even harder.

As for the other airlines out there FedEx and UPS are places where the rest want to go to. These places seem to be better - other than the bases that these places offer (bad bases) - unless you like Memphis, TN then. Being a Brit, I doubt you will (and please, Memphis, TN is home for some and no offense meant to those).

Grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side, but believe me ask ANYONE in the industry here. They'll tell you to stay.

Oh yeah, did I mention the WEAK (and getting weaker) US Dollar?? Yeah, earning a whole bunch of them at JetBlue (hear sarcasm) will not allow you to do JACK over in the UK if you EVER decide to go back.

I hope you see the light. RED for coming over here.

I hope I get my exams quick and head right back to Europe/Asia/Africa (heck, anywhere else where people actually get paid!)

I have to say in defense - best aviation infrastructure in the world, get folks to fly with, but the WORST place to be paid as a human being for.

[Cakov]

In the same boat...

I am in a very similar situation to Artificial Horizon; co-pilot with BA, 4000Hrs, 3200 on 737s, and now 500 or so on 777s.

I know that compared to fellow pilots stateside I should consider myself very lucky to have gone straight onto 737s, and to now be flying 777s with only 4000 hours under my belt. That said, my main reason for wanting to move to the US is as much for personal as professional reasons.

Keeping it short, I have simply had enough of the cost of living here, the fact that I can't afford anything but a two-bedroom apartment near LHR, the weather, the jammed roads, etc etc. In addition, my wife is American and we would prefer to raise our children there.

I have previously lived and worked in the US (not flying), and know that earning half as much there, I had just as much quality of life as I have here now.

Add that to the professional reasons - a lack of command prospects, the derisory pension scheme and the fact that you could earn more with the low-cost airlines (primarily due to much earlier command) - and a move to the US seems to be a reasonable move.

So far I have only done a bit of basic research via the airlines' websites. One factor that would might be a hurdle is that they all seem to ask for command time. As I only have time in the right-hand seat, would that stop the majors from looking at me? If the employment situation does eventually improve, would the majors even look at someone with 4000hrs as an FO, or should I be aiming for the regionals instead?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[BritishGuy]

Originally Posted by angryblackman

Copilot time means nothing to employers in America. In fact some employers might assume that with just copilot time you might represent those groups of pilots who don't have the right stuff for command. A professional copilot.
It's P1 time that means anything. And without it, you won't be competitive amongst the entire airline pilot wanna-be's who suffer from that dreaded disease over here called shiny-jet-syndrome. The only way to get that PIC time is to start at the regionals, or Netjets.

Couldn't agree more. Without PIC (P1) time - and this means actually signing for the aircraft - true 4 stripes....not just being the PF (pilot flying), you won't mean anything to the Legacy/LCC's over here in the US. Doesn't matter if you've got 10k hours on the 777 - with no PIC, you WON'T get anything decent here..... I know Continental don't have the 1000hrs Jet PIC stipulation, but you'd better be dating the Cheif Pilot's daughter (or have a good enough contact) to have a chance otherwise. There are captains from at least 10 different regional airlines here all waiting to get on with Legacy/LCC/Fractionals - and these guys have PIC - just a heads up for what you'll be up against.
I really wish I could tell you otherwise (I'd like to hear some 'happy' stories in this industry over here) but unfortunately, I think the 'happy' story to me would mean not allowing someone who's been at BA with some good total time to ruin stuff for themselves.
Would Ryan or Easy not be a good option for you guys at BA?? Just asking and am curious??

[yankiwi]

Another thing to consider is your lack of citizenship.

Although you are a Green Card holder, and therefore completely entitled to work here, many companies will not call you for an interview until you become a US citizen. It's completely illegal and very discriminatory, but unfortunately it is widespread and very hard to prove. The post 9/11 flightcrew scrutiny here is rediculous, and as a non-citizen you will be subject to TSA incompetence at every training event you attend. This causes you to be a hassle for the airline, compared to a US citizen, and many large employers here are simply not hiring green card holders to remove this little problem from their ranks.

It seems most regional airlines here follow the law and hire green card holders, but I know for a fact that the majors that are hiring are not taking any non-citizens. I believe Fedex and UPS require citizenship, but my understanding is that is legal for them as they have certain government contracts that state Citizens must perform the work.

Stay in BA mate, you will be better off in my opinion. The "land of the free" is not what it once was.............

[Young Pilot]

My word!!!! This is certainly reality knocking hard at our doorsteps! There I was as a Caribbean national keeping my fingers crossed that once done with flight training here in the US, I could probably flight instruct for a while and then move on up (very slowly from what I'm seeing). But I was recently discouraged by a fellow pilot friend that my chances are better off if I simply return to my birth country. From reading all these posts about the hiring chances of non-US citizens in the US, I am strongly considering doing just that. It's definitely not a lie that the industry isn't what it once used to be, but regardless of that fact, we should always try to remain optimistic. Now of course money will always be one of the main issues to take into consideration when contemplating where and by whom one would like to be employed, but let's not forget why we spent so many thousands on flight training in the first place. I can tell you for a fact that my mom was, without a doubt, not the one who decided that I should attend flight school . Keep up the faith!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Dominican]

Employment in the US has a lot to do with connections, If you lack PIC and you are a resident vs. a national, it is more difficult but not unheard off to obtain employment with one of the carriers here but applying from abroad is going to be an uphill battle.
I don't know why you want to make such a move, living in the US is not cheap except in areas where NO major carrier has a base and then you will become a commuter. Let's talk about that for a second, If you think the London traffic is hard to deal with, wait until you face the friendly gate agents and some mainline crews in your commute to and from work, all of the sudden the traffic in Puerto Prince is not going to seem that bad.

Here are some options, I think that the best way to get some PIC and relationships for references would be to target a regional carrier that their pilots are leaving for the major that you want. Any which way you choose will be a hard and long process because you will join thousands that are trying to do the same as you and that have the pic and references to work at it.

One warning about Flightinfo, Too many children and frustrated bitter individuals posting their views as fact. Not by any means and stretch of the imagination a reliable source. Is more a source of entertainment than information. More like watching an episode of COPS raiding a trailer park. It makes you want to throw up, but you still want to see how is going to end.

Good luck with your decision. I'm the opposite of you, working here with tons of references with different carriers and plenty PIC but looking for employment abroad. Go figure

[Cakov]

Thank you all for your input. Nothing ever comes easily in this profession, does it?

From your replies, it sounds as though my best option is to return to my previous employer here in the UK, who offered me a command just before I left to BA. Spend a year or two back there accumulating PIC hours on 737s and then trying to make the move to the US.

A big step, I know, as it's very big decision to leave a carrier such as BA, flying longhaul, in order to take a shot at moving to the US a few years down the line.

[glider26]

Cakov,
How about finding work in the US not as a pilot (as you have done in the past), so as to get you to live where you and your wife want to live sooner rather than later? If you miss flying then you can always rent a Piper Warrior for an hour or two...
Glider (BA Airbus P2)

[Capt.Tentacles]

Originally Posted by Artificial Horizon

Have just obtained a greencard for the USA and are now seriously considering a move to the states. Currently working for British Airways, 4000 hrs TT, 1000 Jet FO, 1200 Turbine 1800 Instructing. What sort of work would these hours make me competitive for?? Also I notice by looking on various websites that airlines like JetBlue have an hourly rate for new FO of $51/hour with 70 hours guaranteed each month. Is this the total component of your take home pay or is there a basic wage in addition?? Pretty basic questions, I just need to start building a picture to see whether I should be considering a move of employer or consider moving to the east coast and commute to work in London on a long haul fleet.

What kinda over 12,500lbs Pilot-in-Command (PIC) (P1) time do you have?
Jet Blue wants (last time I checked) something like 2000 PIC time over
20,000Lbs MGTOW. Then they ask for some kinda flt. time over 12,500 lbs.
Bear in mind, here in the USA the magic number is 1000 hrs PIC time over 12,500#'s. Then the competitive numbers are way high.
Southwest on their website is advertising competitive numbers as 1300 PIC minimum over 12,500lbs MGTOW. Also if you do get hired they give you some time to go and fork out 8k ($8,000) to get a B737-200 type. You have to have your type before you commence ground school.
Basically here it's like a "dog chasing it's tail" you never got enough time.

Also, it sure as heck ain't a "bed of roses" here.....

Don't try regionals as they don't pay squat! You will never upgrade & always be miserable.

Don't venture out to the on-demand freight haulers either they have blatant disregard for FAR's.....(Federal Aviation Regulations) and absolutely horrendous Quality of Life!

But since you gotta green card, come on over & give it a shot.....

Just my .02 cents.....

All in all, best of luck to ya!

Flysafe!

[Long Haul]

I would commute....

In fact, I do commute. I work for a European major airline and lived in the UK for 12 years, but missed home so much that I moved back to the states last year. Best thing I've ever done. The commute isn't bad at all, although with the setup at my airline I'm pretty much assured not to have to sit in the back; I don't know how it is at BA. But most importantly, don't make such an important decision based on the opinions of a few people here whom you don't know; for example how do the people on this forum know that the US majors prefer to hire US citizens instead of green card holders post-911, when none of the majors have hired anyone since then? When the majors start hiring again, and they will soon, who knows what their criteria will be. Anyone making a living flying big jets for a fine outfit like BA, however, will look pretty good to them. Do your own research on pay scales, retirements, etc., and don't forget to factor in that US airlines will be much more competitive than European airlines in the next decade or so, due to their lower cost structures. Having said all that, good luck with your decision and fly safely.

[Cakov]

Thanks for all your input...

Thanks for all your input...

I think I need to speak to someone in the airlines' recruitment departments to see if they would ever consider someone in my position.

I know it's unlikely, but does anyone know of any phone numbers I could try?