US pilotcharged in crash that killed South African teen
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Originally Posted by pakeha-boy
chanderlers dad.....is that cow *********(Name Deleted by Admin) still working for the FEDS....all in all I recieved 8 violations in the 10 yrs I flew up there,5 of them were from her,and only one was deserved.....and even that one was a little shakey
......as a previous poster mentioned ...enforcement was tough ,especially when we covered up our N#,s......and for the little blue angel.......stay in the lower 48.
... ...never once gambled with anyones life except for my own...and anyone who,s done solo night freight knows what I mean/.....pb
......as a previous poster mentioned ...enforcement was tough ,especially when we covered up our N#,s......and for the little blue angel.......stay in the lower 48. ... ...never once gambled with anyones life except for my own...and anyone who,s done solo night freight knows what I mean/.....pbThe lower 48 is a lot different but if you have a fed watching you then its going to be difficult. I have one watching me but the good thing for me is that he watches me from the other side of the dinner table when I BBQ some dead cow for a dinner party! Helps to have a friend in the local FSDO and he is a good guy.
Night freight... started there and did it for a very long time, from Piper Arrows to Lear 60's. At times miss that world.
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" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the big league BS...rogue & cavalier mentality went-out with the barn-stormers. In Command Pilots want laws enforced and protection for passengers, this is common sense to those who fly with safety & integrity. Unregulated wreckless actions = time in jail. "
Two questions Fly Girl..
Are you suggesting that evey passenger in all sea planes should wear life vests?
What do you mean by welcome to the big leagues? Are you referring to aviation being the big leagues?
Welcome to the big league BS...rogue & cavalier mentality went-out with the barn-stormers. In Command Pilots want laws enforced and protection for passengers, this is common sense to those who fly with safety & integrity. Unregulated wreckless actions = time in jail. "
Two questions Fly Girl..
Are you suggesting that evey passenger in all sea planes should wear life vests?
What do you mean by welcome to the big leagues? Are you referring to aviation being the big leagues?
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I am the mother of the South African Teenager who died in Alaska
I have read your comments and am glad to see that there is interest in my son's death and the case which is obviously a precedent setting one.
Thank you Fly Girl Blue Angel and others for your comments. If any of you like I did, have the most vibrant talented young man on the verge of adulthood who wanted to live his life to the max, you will want to see all pilots being more responsible and not endangering people's lives needlessly. It might be helpful for you to view Mark's memorial website to get all the facts and put a face to him. It is www.mark-schroeder.memory-of.com I am not sure how to respond to one of the comments that there are many incidents that have been worse than this. Please tell me what is worse than losing the most beautiful son?
There is only one thing I want to add here and that is that the pilot knew that plane was out of annual. He had promised he would get it sorted out before the due date. We were neighbours on the lake where my son died and because he was so keen on his tourism business and we live far away, we had kindly loaned him the use of our plane after his plane was destroyed on a landing. He was also told under no circumstances to ever put more than three passengers in the plane and the plane was only insured to carry 3 passengers.
Thank you for your interest.
Lesley Schroeder, Mother of Mark, 17.
Thank you Fly Girl Blue Angel and others for your comments. If any of you like I did, have the most vibrant talented young man on the verge of adulthood who wanted to live his life to the max, you will want to see all pilots being more responsible and not endangering people's lives needlessly. It might be helpful for you to view Mark's memorial website to get all the facts and put a face to him. It is www.mark-schroeder.memory-of.com I am not sure how to respond to one of the comments that there are many incidents that have been worse than this. Please tell me what is worse than losing the most beautiful son?
There is only one thing I want to add here and that is that the pilot knew that plane was out of annual. He had promised he would get it sorted out before the due date. We were neighbours on the lake where my son died and because he was so keen on his tourism business and we live far away, we had kindly loaned him the use of our plane after his plane was destroyed on a landing. He was also told under no circumstances to ever put more than three passengers in the plane and the plane was only insured to carry 3 passengers.
Thank you for your interest.
Lesley Schroeder, Mother of Mark, 17.
Last edited by Sparks mom; 22nd Aug 2006 at 16:37.
Gatvol
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Lesley
Condolences on your loss. Whatever occurs to the pilot will not change that..
The controversy here is not that he shouldnt be charged, but that our justice system is so hit and miss that sometimes many fall through the cracks. Also as has been mentioned, many never go to criminal court but end up in Civil litigation.
Two that I know of in the lower 48 in the last few years, resulted in the deaths of over ten people and both went to civil action. Its not that your case is a "Precedent Setting One", so much as its a case which is going to trial, where others as serious may not.
Further, Alaska has always been on the edge when it comes to Aviation. It has one of the largest Aircraft to Population ratios in the world. Thus between, weather, terrain and other factors the exposure for problems is much higher.
You were a neighbor of his??. Knew his Aircraft had crashed?? Maybe knew he crashed it?? I dont know if that was the case. You lent him your aircraft that was out of annual??....... Story is a bit vague on those questions. If that is what I am hearing I dont know if I would have my family on board.
Not an excuse for a careless Pilot.......No question, the buck has to stop on his shoulders.
FGBA does not appear to have been exposed to the type of flying that occurs in places around the world where limits are pushed and accident ratios are higher. Thats where the little tiff begins... I dont think FGBA has a clue about the big leagues. Whatever that means.
Times are changing and as we see some pilots who still push the limits, for example alcohol, are being made to pay the price.... Its a good thing but it will take time.
As you live in South Africa, you should know the justice system is a bit better in the States and hopefully something good will come from this tragedy.
By the way is this Lesley of PRAfrica??
Condolences on your loss. Whatever occurs to the pilot will not change that..
The controversy here is not that he shouldnt be charged, but that our justice system is so hit and miss that sometimes many fall through the cracks. Also as has been mentioned, many never go to criminal court but end up in Civil litigation.
Two that I know of in the lower 48 in the last few years, resulted in the deaths of over ten people and both went to civil action. Its not that your case is a "Precedent Setting One", so much as its a case which is going to trial, where others as serious may not.
Further, Alaska has always been on the edge when it comes to Aviation. It has one of the largest Aircraft to Population ratios in the world. Thus between, weather, terrain and other factors the exposure for problems is much higher.
You were a neighbor of his??. Knew his Aircraft had crashed?? Maybe knew he crashed it?? I dont know if that was the case. You lent him your aircraft that was out of annual??....... Story is a bit vague on those questions. If that is what I am hearing I dont know if I would have my family on board.
Not an excuse for a careless Pilot.......No question, the buck has to stop on his shoulders.
FGBA does not appear to have been exposed to the type of flying that occurs in places around the world where limits are pushed and accident ratios are higher. Thats where the little tiff begins... I dont think FGBA has a clue about the big leagues. Whatever that means.
Times are changing and as we see some pilots who still push the limits, for example alcohol, are being made to pay the price.... Its a good thing but it will take time.
As you live in South Africa, you should know the justice system is a bit better in the States and hopefully something good will come from this tragedy.
By the way is this Lesley of PRAfrica??
Last edited by B Sousa; 26th Aug 2006 at 05:44.
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Criminal Negligence reflects badly on all
Criminal Negligence=Time in Jail.
What I am saying is that every passenger has a right to a seat,seatbelt, and reasonably safe passage. That goes for auto,boat,seaplane,or rail.
The lowest common denominator should not be the measure when it comes to flight safety. Because other idiots have crashed, or skirted prosectution of the law, or think it is somehow a mark of bravado, that is not the measure most pilots want to see used. Your disparraging remarks do not represent the earnest, disciplined Pilots in Command who work so diligently and daily for safety and for the integrity of the profession. Prison for the Pilot,Kurt Stenehjem, will not bring the innocent boy back( forensically he is kneeling at the bottom of a lake) but it will provide the punishment and justice that is deserved. As for flight conditions, Pilots all over the world fly in every imagineable condition, that is NO excuse for manslaughter and blatant negligence which causes unnecessary death. And the lame excuse of civil suit (it is not always about the $$$$ dears) is not the justice the serious Pilots want to see,negligence reflects badly on all Pilots. Criminal Negligence= time in jail.
What I am saying is that every passenger has a right to a seat,seatbelt, and reasonably safe passage. That goes for auto,boat,seaplane,or rail.
The lowest common denominator should not be the measure when it comes to flight safety. Because other idiots have crashed, or skirted prosectution of the law, or think it is somehow a mark of bravado, that is not the measure most pilots want to see used. Your disparraging remarks do not represent the earnest, disciplined Pilots in Command who work so diligently and daily for safety and for the integrity of the profession. Prison for the Pilot,Kurt Stenehjem, will not bring the innocent boy back( forensically he is kneeling at the bottom of a lake) but it will provide the punishment and justice that is deserved. As for flight conditions, Pilots all over the world fly in every imagineable condition, that is NO excuse for manslaughter and blatant negligence which causes unnecessary death. And the lame excuse of civil suit (it is not always about the $$$$ dears) is not the justice the serious Pilots want to see,negligence reflects badly on all Pilots. Criminal Negligence= time in jail.
Last edited by Fly Girl Blue Angel; 27th Aug 2006 at 04:46.
Gatvol
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OK.....FGBA, you have made your point....... I think We agree, but I certainly dont see what your stance has to do with reality of things.
"Your disparraging remarks do not represent the earnest, disciplined Pilots in Command who work so diligently and daily for safety and for the integrity of the profession"
Spare me this will you. What are you Non-Flying Management?? Most pilots who bust their butts today have gone through many times when had things gone to sh1t, they would have been in some kind of FAR violation. Im talking of those who have had to start out starving then doing low pay tasks such as instruction, freight dogs etc. They have all been pushed. Yes some have had the silver spoon and not been put in positions where if they tell the boss no, the kids wont eat until they get another job.
"Pilots all over the world fly in every imagineable condition, that is NO excuse for manslaughter and blatant negligence which causes unnecessary death"
That is certainly true, but its done daily....... under those imagineable conitions.
"And the lame excuse of civil suit (it is not always about the $$$$ dears)" OK, lame excuse?? Come on you think that if the guy in this picture is insured to his armpits or owns a multi-million dollar business that it will stop with criminal prosecution?? Did you eat stupid flakes for breakfast?? Civil Litigation is about the only justice that will come from this and if it goes to that, you can guarantee that everyone from the maker of the aircraft to the last poor kid who fueled the aircraft will be named.
If you are a pilot, heres hoping that someday when you get in a bind because your emlployer has pushed you up against the wall or the weather enroute goes to crap so bad that to get the job done you have the..... well lets just say you say no and go looking for another job.
What Big Leagues do you play in anyway??........If Im correct most of the majors guys get pushed by companies also...
Keep your own slate clean and maybe you wont have to room with Bubba in the Big House.
And also on the reality check..Criminal Negligence only equals time in jail if you cannot afford a good lawyer. You must have a beautiful view from that big Glass House.
"Your disparraging remarks do not represent the earnest, disciplined Pilots in Command who work so diligently and daily for safety and for the integrity of the profession"
Spare me this will you. What are you Non-Flying Management?? Most pilots who bust their butts today have gone through many times when had things gone to sh1t, they would have been in some kind of FAR violation. Im talking of those who have had to start out starving then doing low pay tasks such as instruction, freight dogs etc. They have all been pushed. Yes some have had the silver spoon and not been put in positions where if they tell the boss no, the kids wont eat until they get another job.
"Pilots all over the world fly in every imagineable condition, that is NO excuse for manslaughter and blatant negligence which causes unnecessary death"
That is certainly true, but its done daily....... under those imagineable conitions.
"And the lame excuse of civil suit (it is not always about the $$$$ dears)" OK, lame excuse?? Come on you think that if the guy in this picture is insured to his armpits or owns a multi-million dollar business that it will stop with criminal prosecution?? Did you eat stupid flakes for breakfast?? Civil Litigation is about the only justice that will come from this and if it goes to that, you can guarantee that everyone from the maker of the aircraft to the last poor kid who fueled the aircraft will be named.
If you are a pilot, heres hoping that someday when you get in a bind because your emlployer has pushed you up against the wall or the weather enroute goes to crap so bad that to get the job done you have the..... well lets just say you say no and go looking for another job.
What Big Leagues do you play in anyway??........If Im correct most of the majors guys get pushed by companies also...
Keep your own slate clean and maybe you wont have to room with Bubba in the Big House.
And also on the reality check..Criminal Negligence only equals time in jail if you cannot afford a good lawyer. You must have a beautiful view from that big Glass House.
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I did a flight on a corporate aircraft a few years ago. Landed outside of our country and then and only then received an email from the chief pilot saying for me to call him. I emailed him instead, as I smelled a rat and wanted whatever he was going to say in writing.
He informed me that he had sent me and my crew out of the country with an illegal airplane! The bird had been re-registered to another company name and the perm registration had not arrived yet. Flying an airplane like this out of the country is not legal, so he just put the old registration in the bird and said nothing before we left.
After this he faxed me a copy of the new registration. The jerk, he just put us in the hot seat in case customs did a registery check before we landed back in CONUS. Its only a $10,000 fine and black mark on your passport with Customs and Border Patrol, but he did not care, he was not the PIC!
I know first hand how its like to be handed an airplane that you believe is legal, and take it for a flight, only to find out afterwards that its not legal and that the powers that be knew beforehand.
As well I have had one flight where we had one person too many for the number of seats in the airplane one time. I went into the terminal to check on something, the FA shut the door and we started the engines. Seconds later the FA taps me on the shoulder and said "we have a pax hiding in the potty, what do you want to do?" I shut the LH engine down and we off loaded the "extra pax" to the security.
Sorry to see the flight ended in an accident, and as well sorry to see someone hurt or killed at anytime, but lets wait for the entire story to come out at the trial. True that he had one too many people on the plane and its also true that the plane was out of annual. Did either of these contribute to the accident? Lets see, but as my situations above show, not always does the PIC of the flight know the entire story all of the time. These are only from my background, but if they happened to me, they could happen to others.
He informed me that he had sent me and my crew out of the country with an illegal airplane! The bird had been re-registered to another company name and the perm registration had not arrived yet. Flying an airplane like this out of the country is not legal, so he just put the old registration in the bird and said nothing before we left.
After this he faxed me a copy of the new registration. The jerk, he just put us in the hot seat in case customs did a registery check before we landed back in CONUS. Its only a $10,000 fine and black mark on your passport with Customs and Border Patrol, but he did not care, he was not the PIC!
I know first hand how its like to be handed an airplane that you believe is legal, and take it for a flight, only to find out afterwards that its not legal and that the powers that be knew beforehand.
As well I have had one flight where we had one person too many for the number of seats in the airplane one time. I went into the terminal to check on something, the FA shut the door and we started the engines. Seconds later the FA taps me on the shoulder and said "we have a pax hiding in the potty, what do you want to do?" I shut the LH engine down and we off loaded the "extra pax" to the security.
Sorry to see the flight ended in an accident, and as well sorry to see someone hurt or killed at anytime, but lets wait for the entire story to come out at the trial. True that he had one too many people on the plane and its also true that the plane was out of annual. Did either of these contribute to the accident? Lets see, but as my situations above show, not always does the PIC of the flight know the entire story all of the time. These are only from my background, but if they happened to me, they could happen to others.
Gatvol
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FGBA has got my attention...........Chandlers dad has just told her one incident that occured to him and its one of many that occurs daily. I certainly wish she would bare her credentials as Im sure if she was a pilot, she has had to hang her whatever out at some point. Had she had problems that resulted in a tragedy such as this one her whatever would be in the slam. Of course as strong as her posts are that would never happen...
"The jerk, he just put us in the hot seat in case customs did a registery check before we landed back in CONUS. Its only a $10,000 fine and black mark on your passport with Customs and Border Patrol, but he did not care, he was not the PIC! "
Hey, Pilots responsibility to make sure ALL things are correct and as Pilots the problem is we have to trust others. In this case Chandlers Dad could have had his ass handed to him and once a blackmark with Customs/ Immigration your name will always showup on entry. It matters not who you know.
Let us not forget that this thread started off with a mistake. That mistake took a life. Now someone must atone for that. Certainly it will be the pilot.
It could be a lesson to other Pilots, but then again in the real world of Aviation, Pilots will continue to try and survive themselves.
"The jerk, he just put us in the hot seat in case customs did a registery check before we landed back in CONUS. Its only a $10,000 fine and black mark on your passport with Customs and Border Patrol, but he did not care, he was not the PIC! "
Hey, Pilots responsibility to make sure ALL things are correct and as Pilots the problem is we have to trust others. In this case Chandlers Dad could have had his ass handed to him and once a blackmark with Customs/ Immigration your name will always showup on entry. It matters not who you know.
Let us not forget that this thread started off with a mistake. That mistake took a life. Now someone must atone for that. Certainly it will be the pilot.
It could be a lesson to other Pilots, but then again in the real world of Aviation, Pilots will continue to try and survive themselves.
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FGBA, what exactly is your point?
Are you suggesting that we in aviation do not understand basic airmanship and how to manage risk?
And in your opinion jail time is to be handed out before the facts are known?
Are you a pilot working for pay?
Are you suggesting that we in aviation do not understand basic airmanship and how to manage risk?
And in your opinion jail time is to be handed out before the facts are known?
Are you a pilot working for pay?
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Negligence Reflects Badly on All
Maybe 3 lefts need to figure out how to go right...a rookie knows the difference between accidental and lack of basic common sense; not to mention the breaking of the law... Reread the assignments boyz, the litany of errors is ridiculous. There is no place for the lowest common denom. in the sky. When a death is caused by negligence, there needs to be accountability to justice of the law. You defend? those that represent the worst of the profession, is that self-representative? like finds like. If you have really logged the hours with integrity, you wouldn't defend those that give it a bad name. Pilot negligence reflects badly on all...common sense, not too complicated. Operative word here being negligence. Not bad weather, mechanical problems not attributed to the Pilot, not unforseen circumstances...FAA emergency revocation, 2nd total wreck in 2 years, litany too long to list here...one has no right to take the life of another because of negligence. It reflects badly on all.
Last edited by Fly Girl Blue Angel; 27th Aug 2006 at 06:07.
Gatvol
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Talking to FGBA is like beating a dead horse.....It aint gonna happen.
Sure what she says is true on paper, but its not the real world.....Enough already.
Certainly would be more interesting to know where shes coming from. Pilot, Lawyer, Relative or just stirring the pot.
"Not bad weather, mechanical problems not attributed to the Pilot, not unforseen circumstances...FAA emergency revocation, 2nd total wreck in 2 years, litany too long to list here.."
Obviously some inside information here, if this is regards to the Pilot... May change a few opinions if it were known..
Sure what she says is true on paper, but its not the real world.....Enough already.
Certainly would be more interesting to know where shes coming from. Pilot, Lawyer, Relative or just stirring the pot.
"Not bad weather, mechanical problems not attributed to the Pilot, not unforseen circumstances...FAA emergency revocation, 2nd total wreck in 2 years, litany too long to list here.."
Obviously some inside information here, if this is regards to the Pilot... May change a few opinions if it were known..
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Talking to FGBA is like beating a dead horse.....It aint gonna happen.
Sure what she says is true on paper, but its not the real world.....Enough already.
Certainly would be more interesting to know where shes coming from. Pilot, Lawyer, Relative or just stirring the pot.
"Not bad weather, mechanical problems not attributed to the Pilot, not unforseen circumstances...FAA emergency revocation, 2nd total wreck in 2 years, litany too long to list here.."
Obviously some inside information here, if this is regards to the Pilot... May change a few opinions if it were known..
Sure what she says is true on paper, but its not the real world.....Enough already.
Certainly would be more interesting to know where shes coming from. Pilot, Lawyer, Relative or just stirring the pot.
"Not bad weather, mechanical problems not attributed to the Pilot, not unforseen circumstances...FAA emergency revocation, 2nd total wreck in 2 years, litany too long to list here.."
Obviously some inside information here, if this is regards to the Pilot... May change a few opinions if it were known..
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Is it possible FGBA is a little closer to the story than we're led to believe? There appears to be an attempt to smear and convict the pilot here before the case has even been heard....
Gatvol
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"We were neighbours on the lake where my son died and because he was so keen on his tourism business and we live far away, we had kindly loaned him the use of our plane after his plane was destroyed on a landing."
"Airmen Database Search Result
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : STENEHJEM, KURT WILLIS
Airman's Address : 200 W 34TH AVE # 96
ANCHORAGE, AK, 99503-3969
FAA Region : Alaskan
Date of Medical : Dec, 2004
Class of Medical : 2
Expiration of Class 2 : Dec, 2005
Airman Certificates : Private Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land and Sea
Instrument Airplane
Things are not passing the smell test here. Was this a Commercial Flight. Was the pilot doing this for hire?? Or was it the neighbors lending him there out of annual aircraft for a Private flight.........
I can Guarantee I wouldnt "Lend" out my aircraft to anyone without a lot of other questions asked/answered...... but that will be part of the mitigation on the case Im sure.
NTSB site was down so when I can get the report I will post it. It may answer some questions which FGBA cant or wont answer.............
"Airmen Database Search Result
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name : STENEHJEM, KURT WILLIS
Airman's Address : 200 W 34TH AVE # 96
ANCHORAGE, AK, 99503-3969
FAA Region : Alaskan
Date of Medical : Dec, 2004
Class of Medical : 2
Expiration of Class 2 : Dec, 2005
Airman Certificates : Private Pilot
Airplane Single Engine Land and Sea
Instrument Airplane
Things are not passing the smell test here. Was this a Commercial Flight. Was the pilot doing this for hire?? Or was it the neighbors lending him there out of annual aircraft for a Private flight.........
I can Guarantee I wouldnt "Lend" out my aircraft to anyone without a lot of other questions asked/answered...... but that will be part of the mitigation on the case Im sure.
NTSB site was down so when I can get the report I will post it. It may answer some questions which FGBA cant or wont answer.............
Gatvol
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Here it is boys and girls, fresh from the horses mouth...........
ANC05FA098
HISTORY OF FLIGHT
On July 7, 2005, about 1100 Alaska daylight time, a float-equipped Maule M-7-235 airplane, N5661J, sustained substantial damage when it impacted water and sank, following an in-flight loss of control during final approach at Johnstone Lake, about 25 miles southeast of Seward, Alaska. The airplane was being operated by Glacier Air Adventures, of Anchorage, Alaska, as a visual flight rules (VFR) business flight under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident occurred. The commercial certificated pilot/lodge operator and three passengers received minor injuries, a fourth passenger received fatal injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and company flight following procedures were in effect. The flight originated at Bear Lake, 6 miles northeast of Seward, about 1030.
During an interview with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigator-in-charge (IIC) on July 7, the pilot said the flight from Bear Lake to Johnstone Lake was to transport passengers for a kayaking adventure on Johnstone Lake at the foot of the Excelsior Glacier. He said the flight was uneventful until, about 25-50 feet above Johnstone Lake, during the final approach for landing on the lake, the airplane "quit flying." He said the airplane impacted the lake in a near-level attitude, with a high rate of descent. He and the four passengers exited the airplane, and stood on top of the wings and fuselage. He said the float's supporting structure had collapsed, and the wings were resting on the top of the floats on the water. He stated the airplane was more than a mile from shore, surrounded by icebergs, and slowly sinking. In an attempt to move from the sinking airplane to a large iceberg, the pilot said one of the passengers, who was not wearing a personal flotation device, drown. The pilot said that prior to the impact there were no known mechanical anomalies with the airplane, and the engine was running normally.
INJURIES TO PERSONS
The pilot and three passengers received minor injuries. The fourth passenger drown while trying to swim back to the floating airplane wreckage from an iceberg, and was not recovered from the lake.
DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT
According to statements by the pilot and passengers, the airplane received substantial structural damage to the wings and fuselage during the accident. The airplane subsequently sank in water estimated to be 600-800 feet deep, and has not been recovered.
PERSONNEL INFORMATION
According to FAA records the pilot held a commercial pilot certificate with ratings for single-engine land, single-engine sea, and instrument airplane. According to an estimate by the pilot, he had accumulated about 1,738 total hours of flying experience, with 370 of those hours in the same make and model as the accident airplane. The pilot was issued an FAA class 2 medical certificate in December, 2004. The pilot did not present evidence of a current biennial flight review; however, he received an additional aeronautical rating April 21, 2005.
AIRCRAFT INFORMATION
The airplane was a model year 1997 Maule M-7-235, single-engine, float equipped airplane. The airplane had accumulated about 1,140 service hours on the airframe at the time of the last annual inspection, which was completed on June 27, 2004. The airplane did not have a current annual inspection at the time of the accident. The engine had accumulated 1,140 total service hours at the time of the annual inspection. An airframe log book entry indicated the floats were removed in November 2004. According to the mechanic who installed the floats in the spring of 2005, the installation was not completed under his signature because the pilot failed to provide the fuselage-mounted ventral fin necessary to complete the installation. According to the airplane and float manufacturers, the ventral fin provides additional in-flight yaw axis stability. The fifth seat configuration for the accident airplane requires a supplemental type certificate (STC) for the fifth seat installation in the aft baggage area. The manufacturer reported that their records disclosed that the airplane was delivered without the fifth seat. Federal Aviation Administration records do not record a fifth seat STC being issued for the accident airplane.
METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION
According to the pilot, visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and weather was not a factor in the accident.
WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION
The accident occurred on Johnstone Lake, Alaska. Johnstone Lake is a freshwater lake whose long axis is oriented approximately north-south, about 1 mile from the Gulf of Alaska, and is about 3.5 miles long, and averages about 1 mile wide. The south end of the lake is separated from the Gulf of Alaska by a rocky beach, about 1 mile wide, with a fresh water (stream-like) outlet. The north end of the lake is dominated by the Excelsior Glacier. The lake water is filled with glacial silt, is gray colored, and is reported to be 600-800 feet deep. The lake is populated with various-sized floating ice chunks, and large icebergs. According to the pilot and survivors, the airplane descended rapidly from about 25-50 feet above the surface, and impacted the lake in a level attitude. They reported that the floats spread apart, and collapsed against the underside of the wings. They said the floats maintained their longitudinal position with respect to the fuselage. The fuselage lay submerged, supported by the floats under the wings, until it subsequently sank. The airplane has not been recovered.
MEDICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL INFORMATION
The pilot and surviving passengers received minor impact and subsequent minor exposure injuries. The fatal passenger has not been recovered from the lake.
SURVIVAL ASPECTS
The accident occurred while the four seat (pilot and three passenger), float-equipped airplane was on final approach to a glacier-fed, fresh water lake. The lake is estimated to be 600-800 feet deep with a surface temperature of 38-42 degrees F. The lake is populated by large icebergs, and smaller cakes of ice. The day of the accident was clear with relatively calm winds, and long hours of midsummer daylight.
Prior to the flight the pilot gave each passenger a personal flotation device (PFD), and briefed them on its use. The fourth/fatal passenger was seated in the aft cargo compartment atop kayak spray-skirts and gloves. The pilot and all four passengers survived the water impact with a few minor injuries. After the impact, the five survivors climbed onto the fuselage top and wings. The pilot and fatal passenger exited the airplane, leaving their PFD's behind. The other three passengers were wearing their PFD's when the accident occurred, and exited the airplane wearing them. The airplane was sinking, and all the survivors swam to a large, nearby iceberg, but were unable to climb out of the water onto the iceberg. The pilot, and the three passengers wearing PFD's, swam back to the airplane, and climbed out of the water onto the airplane. The pilot borrowed a PFD from one of the passengers, and swam back to the remaining passenger, but was unable to render aid because he'd lost all feeling in his hands due to the cold water. The remaining passenger, without aid of a PFD, slipped below the surface of the lake, and was not seen again. The survivors were able to cut through the fabric fuselage skin to retrieve extra clothing from the baggage compartment, which they gave to the pilot who, according to them, was showing signs of hypothermia. During the accident scenario, two of the passengers were dressed in layered clothing, including fleece, as suggested by the pilot. The other two passengers and the pilot were dressed in cotton levis and cotton shirts. As the airplane continued to slowly sink, two of the passengers swam to a smaller ice cake, which they were able to climb on, and the remaining passenger followed. Prior to the airplane sinking, using an inflated dry-bag, the pilot joined the others on the iceberg.
The flight used "company flight following" instead of an FAA flight plan. When the airplane did not return as scheduled, the person responsible for tracking the progress of the flight elected to contact other pilots in the area rather than report the airplane missing. After seeing several airplanes orbit the lake, presumably looking for the now submerged airplane, and then leave without seeing them, the survivors decided they had to make their own way to shore. The survivors were on an iceberg near the center of the lake, about a mile from shore. Two of the survivors boarded a cake of ice, and using makeshift paddles, paddled toward the shore where they knew there was a camp with kayaks and supplies. After paddling for about 2 hours, and within 100 yards of the shore, a State Trooper helicopter appeared, headed for the same camp as the paddlers. The helicopter recovered the paddlers, and the two remaining survivors on the iceberg. All four survivors were taken to the hospital, and treated for minor impact and exposure related injuries.
ANC05FA098
HISTORY OF FLIGHT
On July 7, 2005, about 1100 Alaska daylight time, a float-equipped Maule M-7-235 airplane, N5661J, sustained substantial damage when it impacted water and sank, following an in-flight loss of control during final approach at Johnstone Lake, about 25 miles southeast of Seward, Alaska. The airplane was being operated by Glacier Air Adventures, of Anchorage, Alaska, as a visual flight rules (VFR) business flight under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident occurred. The commercial certificated pilot/lodge operator and three passengers received minor injuries, a fourth passenger received fatal injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and company flight following procedures were in effect. The flight originated at Bear Lake, 6 miles northeast of Seward, about 1030.
During an interview with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigator-in-charge (IIC) on July 7, the pilot said the flight from Bear Lake to Johnstone Lake was to transport passengers for a kayaking adventure on Johnstone Lake at the foot of the Excelsior Glacier. He said the flight was uneventful until, about 25-50 feet above Johnstone Lake, during the final approach for landing on the lake, the airplane "quit flying." He said the airplane impacted the lake in a near-level attitude, with a high rate of descent. He and the four passengers exited the airplane, and stood on top of the wings and fuselage. He said the float's supporting structure had collapsed, and the wings were resting on the top of the floats on the water. He stated the airplane was more than a mile from shore, surrounded by icebergs, and slowly sinking. In an attempt to move from the sinking airplane to a large iceberg, the pilot said one of the passengers, who was not wearing a personal flotation device, drown. The pilot said that prior to the impact there were no known mechanical anomalies with the airplane, and the engine was running normally.
INJURIES TO PERSONS
The pilot and three passengers received minor injuries. The fourth passenger drown while trying to swim back to the floating airplane wreckage from an iceberg, and was not recovered from the lake.
DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT
According to statements by the pilot and passengers, the airplane received substantial structural damage to the wings and fuselage during the accident. The airplane subsequently sank in water estimated to be 600-800 feet deep, and has not been recovered.
PERSONNEL INFORMATION
According to FAA records the pilot held a commercial pilot certificate with ratings for single-engine land, single-engine sea, and instrument airplane. According to an estimate by the pilot, he had accumulated about 1,738 total hours of flying experience, with 370 of those hours in the same make and model as the accident airplane. The pilot was issued an FAA class 2 medical certificate in December, 2004. The pilot did not present evidence of a current biennial flight review; however, he received an additional aeronautical rating April 21, 2005.
AIRCRAFT INFORMATION
The airplane was a model year 1997 Maule M-7-235, single-engine, float equipped airplane. The airplane had accumulated about 1,140 service hours on the airframe at the time of the last annual inspection, which was completed on June 27, 2004. The airplane did not have a current annual inspection at the time of the accident. The engine had accumulated 1,140 total service hours at the time of the annual inspection. An airframe log book entry indicated the floats were removed in November 2004. According to the mechanic who installed the floats in the spring of 2005, the installation was not completed under his signature because the pilot failed to provide the fuselage-mounted ventral fin necessary to complete the installation. According to the airplane and float manufacturers, the ventral fin provides additional in-flight yaw axis stability. The fifth seat configuration for the accident airplane requires a supplemental type certificate (STC) for the fifth seat installation in the aft baggage area. The manufacturer reported that their records disclosed that the airplane was delivered without the fifth seat. Federal Aviation Administration records do not record a fifth seat STC being issued for the accident airplane.
METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION
According to the pilot, visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and weather was not a factor in the accident.
WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION
The accident occurred on Johnstone Lake, Alaska. Johnstone Lake is a freshwater lake whose long axis is oriented approximately north-south, about 1 mile from the Gulf of Alaska, and is about 3.5 miles long, and averages about 1 mile wide. The south end of the lake is separated from the Gulf of Alaska by a rocky beach, about 1 mile wide, with a fresh water (stream-like) outlet. The north end of the lake is dominated by the Excelsior Glacier. The lake water is filled with glacial silt, is gray colored, and is reported to be 600-800 feet deep. The lake is populated with various-sized floating ice chunks, and large icebergs. According to the pilot and survivors, the airplane descended rapidly from about 25-50 feet above the surface, and impacted the lake in a level attitude. They reported that the floats spread apart, and collapsed against the underside of the wings. They said the floats maintained their longitudinal position with respect to the fuselage. The fuselage lay submerged, supported by the floats under the wings, until it subsequently sank. The airplane has not been recovered.
MEDICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL INFORMATION
The pilot and surviving passengers received minor impact and subsequent minor exposure injuries. The fatal passenger has not been recovered from the lake.
SURVIVAL ASPECTS
The accident occurred while the four seat (pilot and three passenger), float-equipped airplane was on final approach to a glacier-fed, fresh water lake. The lake is estimated to be 600-800 feet deep with a surface temperature of 38-42 degrees F. The lake is populated by large icebergs, and smaller cakes of ice. The day of the accident was clear with relatively calm winds, and long hours of midsummer daylight.
Prior to the flight the pilot gave each passenger a personal flotation device (PFD), and briefed them on its use. The fourth/fatal passenger was seated in the aft cargo compartment atop kayak spray-skirts and gloves. The pilot and all four passengers survived the water impact with a few minor injuries. After the impact, the five survivors climbed onto the fuselage top and wings. The pilot and fatal passenger exited the airplane, leaving their PFD's behind. The other three passengers were wearing their PFD's when the accident occurred, and exited the airplane wearing them. The airplane was sinking, and all the survivors swam to a large, nearby iceberg, but were unable to climb out of the water onto the iceberg. The pilot, and the three passengers wearing PFD's, swam back to the airplane, and climbed out of the water onto the airplane. The pilot borrowed a PFD from one of the passengers, and swam back to the remaining passenger, but was unable to render aid because he'd lost all feeling in his hands due to the cold water. The remaining passenger, without aid of a PFD, slipped below the surface of the lake, and was not seen again. The survivors were able to cut through the fabric fuselage skin to retrieve extra clothing from the baggage compartment, which they gave to the pilot who, according to them, was showing signs of hypothermia. During the accident scenario, two of the passengers were dressed in layered clothing, including fleece, as suggested by the pilot. The other two passengers and the pilot were dressed in cotton levis and cotton shirts. As the airplane continued to slowly sink, two of the passengers swam to a smaller ice cake, which they were able to climb on, and the remaining passenger followed. Prior to the airplane sinking, using an inflated dry-bag, the pilot joined the others on the iceberg.
The flight used "company flight following" instead of an FAA flight plan. When the airplane did not return as scheduled, the person responsible for tracking the progress of the flight elected to contact other pilots in the area rather than report the airplane missing. After seeing several airplanes orbit the lake, presumably looking for the now submerged airplane, and then leave without seeing them, the survivors decided they had to make their own way to shore. The survivors were on an iceberg near the center of the lake, about a mile from shore. Two of the survivors boarded a cake of ice, and using makeshift paddles, paddled toward the shore where they knew there was a camp with kayaks and supplies. After paddling for about 2 hours, and within 100 yards of the shore, a State Trooper helicopter appeared, headed for the same camp as the paddlers. The helicopter recovered the paddlers, and the two remaining survivors on the iceberg. All four survivors were taken to the hospital, and treated for minor impact and exposure related injuries.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Lots of unanswered questions here.
Why werent the floats installed correctly and following the STC information?
Why wasnt the 5th seat installed?
Annual was 10 days overdue. Not exactly the way it sounded at first.
Love the way the NTSB says that the pilot had no proof of a Bi-annual flight review, then says that he had gotten an additional rating in the meantime, which means that he did not need the Bi-annual. Typical Feds.
Pilot gave each pax a PFD and briefed them on its use. One elected not to use the PFD and was the only person not to survive.
The lawyers will have a field day with this one. Sure sounds like the owner and operator of the airplane (may be two different people or companies) may have a played a large part in this situation. The pilot should not have had an extra pax on board but had he worn the PFD as instructed it might have turned out differently.
Sad to see.
Why werent the floats installed correctly and following the STC information?
Why wasnt the 5th seat installed?
Annual was 10 days overdue. Not exactly the way it sounded at first.
Love the way the NTSB says that the pilot had no proof of a Bi-annual flight review, then says that he had gotten an additional rating in the meantime, which means that he did not need the Bi-annual. Typical Feds.
Pilot gave each pax a PFD and briefed them on its use. One elected not to use the PFD and was the only person not to survive.
The lawyers will have a field day with this one. Sure sounds like the owner and operator of the airplane (may be two different people or companies) may have a played a large part in this situation. The pilot should not have had an extra pax on board but had he worn the PFD as instructed it might have turned out differently.
Sad to see.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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An extremely sad story all round. Seems to me that the lack of the flotation device was the crux here. Cannot imagine the trauma of losing a child. Condolences to the family involved.
Would a 5th seat, valid annual or better briefing have changed events here at all?
A real tragedy, and one that the pilot will have to try and live with for the rest of his life. I can't see how a jail term will improve matters.
Would a 5th seat, valid annual or better briefing have changed events here at all?
A real tragedy, and one that the pilot will have to try and live with for the rest of his life. I can't see how a jail term will improve matters.
Gatvol
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"Would a 5th seat, valid annual or better briefing have changed events here at all?"
Typical of an accident, a long chain where had someone broken a link along the way, it may not have occured.
Typical of an accident, a long chain where had someone broken a link along the way, it may not have occured.
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I seem to remember a trip for a high-ranking Nigerian General when we had 11seats and 13 pax. I guess they were both under two years old and just real big for their age... but it seemed best not to ask too many questions.
I wish our guardian angel had been there to explain the rules to that fellow. 'Now listen here, General...' That would have been enjoyable.
Things must seem a bit different when you are in Delaware compared to somewhere out in the bush. Still, it sure is good to see someone keeping up standards.
Welcome to Pprune and I bet that you will fit right in.
I wish our guardian angel had been there to explain the rules to that fellow. 'Now listen here, General...' That would have been enjoyable.
Things must seem a bit different when you are in Delaware compared to somewhere out in the bush. Still, it sure is good to see someone keeping up standards.
Welcome to Pprune and I bet that you will fit right in.
