Flying in the US

[shnee]

Hay guys/gals,

I was just wondering if some one would be able to give me a bit of an overview of working in the States.

What is involved in converting my Licence?
What is involved in getting a job?
what would my first job involve?
How quick is progression to say a turbo prop?
And what are the conditions and pay like?

At this current stage I have an Aussie CPL with Air transport credits, MCIR, 700hr of which 550 is multi and 150 is single.

It would be greatly appricated if these questions can be compleated.

Cheers

Shnee.

[pilotusa]

shnee -

I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope. There is still quite a pool of qualified pilots already here in the U.S. who are looking for work. You also have to have a permit to work here, and that can be difficult unless you marry a U.S. citizen or permanent resident.

I don't know what kind of reciprocal agreement our FAA has with the Australian licensing authority, but I believe the only thing you would qualify for "automatically" with a foreign CPL or ATP is a private pilot license. Not much good for getting work, and I believe it is done that way intentionally. I'm not sure what upgrading your license to equal status with your Australian licenses would involve. My guess is it won't be cheap.

At your experience level (with usable licenses and valid working permits,) you could likely land an F/O slot with a regional/commuter carrier flying turboprops or small jets (like the EMB 145.) Pay would probably run from US$25,000/year to $35,000/year. Working conditions are relative to the particular company. Some treat their pilots fairly well and have reasonable schedules. Others think you are their slave and provide commensurate treatment.

Good luck, and g'day mate!

[Ignition Override]

A buddy with whom I hit some tennis balls today flies (in the US) cargo F-27s.

This guy's salary is much better than that of regional CRJ FOs, and he said that he can't afford to work for certain regional airlines because he has a home and there is no pay during training for some companies. But his company has hired some outside guys to be first year Captains-they often don't upgrade FOs, because they would be on third or fourth-year Captain pay......that is not so good for morale... naja.

An acquaintance of his went to work for American Eagle and instead of getting an assignment to DFW (Texas), it was San Juan, Puerto Rico! He was almost never home in the US and quit after a short while. That can cost you a marriage. Anyway, Eagle can also send you to very expensive areas such as New York City, a big megalopolis in California, or elsewhere. How can those guys/gals survive on about $1600/month in those areas, unless their Mom and Dad live there? Maybe they live with four roommates in a two-bedroom apartment... Just beware and don't be naiive.

Yesterday, an Instructor Pilot who gives initial IOE for brand-new CRJ FOs was deadheading on one of our planes from the "Great Lakes". He told me, as we waited at Taco Bell, that some new-hires at his company have only about 400 hours, and are products of the (famous/infamous[?]) Gulfstream School in Florida. He told me that 'his' regional affiliate of a US major can not always attract experienced pilots because it pays you nothing during training, and of course, afterwards, you can qualify for food stamps if you have a family to feed. How about leftover doctor bills for a wife or kid who needs a small operation? His company in years past sponsored numerous 'foreign' guys and some gals. Several years ago I met some, who came from South Africa, Israel, Scandinavia, Netherlands. Don't know if they 'sponsor' anymore.

Anyway, many of these newer pilots will never have the required minimum PIC hours (maybe 250 for the ATP?) to upgrade to Captain unless they get their hands on somebody's private single-engine plane or can rent one for lots of cash... Could that eventually seem like life in a truly never-ending 'Twilight Zone' tv show, as they work month after month, year after year for just above minimum wage? The union can do nothing about it, as recent history has proven time after time.

Good luck here in the so-called "land of opportunity".

[druglord]

yeah mate it's not worth it. If you can get a green card easily enough then maybe, after that it's still quite a conversion if you don't have an aussie ATPL ie the 1500 hours etc. Then you're only GA job options are flight instructing so more money for that. You may get hired at a regional but I wouldn't hold your breath. Plus you'd want some US experience before you tried flying airlines here anyway. It's a different kettle of fish, not one to be getting you're feet wet in. pm me if you want more info though. Good luck.

[Lasiorhinus]

So, with an australian issued ATPL, I could work on that in America without having to convert it to a local one?

[SonicVIPER]

Re:

Hi OZ pilot

I had some experience with flying in the United States 2 yrs ago. I finished my Commercial and Instructors rating in my home country (South Africa) and then went over to "convert" my license. This was all before 911 so my initial steps started out with getting an FAA Pvt based on my South African CPL. It then took me about 3 months to finally obtain my FAA Instrument and Single Engine Commercial during a time in which I thought I had to re-learn everything about flying. It was completely different to what I had been used to in SA and the full array of 300 hrs total time I had didnt make it easier either. Anyway, 8 after getting my FAA CPL I obtained my CFI and later CFII. I started getting more accustomed to flying in the US and really liked it. I married my American girlfriend whom I had been dating for 2 yrs up til that point and in short time (I was lucky) obtained my work permit and greencard).

Within a month of getting my greencard, 911 hit hard and it was soon clear that things weren't too bright for aviation in the near future in the US. I decided to head home to South Africa for the time it would take things to shape up again in the US and landed a job within a week of getting home. Its been two years since I have left the US and I must honestly say that there are days when I thought I hadn't. Much good and bad have come from the descision.

The bad bart: My wife decided to head back to her home country which left me with conditional permanent residence which expired last year. So now, having some decent hours to go market myself back in the US again, I cant do so.

The good part: I have flown Cessna Caravans, C404's and recently landed a permanent job flying ATRs for a good company. I'm enjoying life but missing the US terribly much.

I often wonder if I would be flying in a regional by now had I stayed in the US while biting the bullet. Probably but then again, who knows for sure. I decided to take a chance and wait for the rough waters to calm down before going back but in the process, kinda locked myself out.

My advice to you is to stay in OZ to build at least 1500hrs. In the meantime, play the yearly DV lottery (greencard lotter) if you are elligible as an OZ citizen. There are only a handful of ways to get US residence and the lottery and marriage to a US citizen are pretty much your only options. When you get your 1500hrs and you are able to go to the US and obtain residence, you'll at least meet the FAA Part 135 minimums and be able to fly for a charter company if you dont get hired by a regional. Oh and yes, you'll DEFINATELY have to get some experience flying around in the US before heading for an airline. It's different in many ways to most ICAO state members but I mean it in a good way.

Maybe we'll meet in the future somewhere in the US. I certainly haven't given up home in trying to get back there.

Good luck!

[druglord]

no you'll still have to convert to US ATP but it's a lot easier and cheaper if you already have the ATP minimums and less tests to do. ie with commercial you'd have to do a single engine commercial written and practical a multi commercial written and practical and an instrument test. not cheap cf to one practical and one written for ATPL. Get past the green card hurdle first though.

[mjbow2]

Hey drugie.....

Shnee

Forget the Single Commercial check ride. Just do the multi instrument with the Commercial add-on. Commercial ticket is enough to get you in and its pretty straight forward to convert, only one written for the ATP....no credits from oz subjects!


The Great Lakes that was referred to is it sounds like Great Lakes Airlines in Cheyenne WY..... They suck increadibly but! they will launch your career pretty quickly. Not hiring at the mo!

Colgan are hiring at the moment.....you might just scrape in with 700 hours....although a mate of mine was hired there last month with 900, they seem to want 1000 with about 100 multi. Give chuck colgan a call....his number is on the web site!

Even now......in my opinion, if you have the right to work in the states......go for it. Yes there are a lot of pilots furloughed from the majors etc.......but as a general rule you are not competeing with them, as they cant afford to take a 15-35K a year job! if you can then I say its your best bet by A LONG WAY!

Let me know if you go, I will help you get in touch with the right people at a few of the low paying regionals.....no garuntees there but a phone number and a friendly face in a strange land can go a long way!


Please dont take this the wrong way Pilotusa.....it would seem that as a major airline pilot for 25 years, your view of what the entry level job scene actually is may be a little distorted! It kinda shows in the figures you quoted of starting pay at 25k......try 15k!

Anyway my point is Shnee.......qualify the advice you get by who gave it....including me. Dont take my word for it......do your homework. If you want some more people to talk to/email...then let me know. I can put you in touch with some of these 15k a year pilots and you can get a handle on what their take on the job scene is! The fact is there a still hundreds of jobs going in the US even now! just not at the majors. Try
aviation interviews dot com and find out what kind of hours people are getting hired with....what kind of recomendations you will need, who to send your resume to etc!

MJB

[flametree]

Mate, I did all my ratings in the states a few years ago before returning home. Most of the guys that I trained with are all right seat in something decent.

My advice would be head over (providing you can work), then get an instructors rating with a school that does alot of flying. Try ALLATP, they do alot of multi training and you can get an FAA ATPL pretty easily with them.

You will not make a fortune in the first year or so but you will be able to keep the logbook ticking over plus a few beers on the weekends.

From what I hear it is picking up over there.

[jr51xx]

Shnee,

You asked a question that is frequently asked by pilots of one country interested in transitioning to another. For the most part, the answers are the same.

First of all, in order to work in the new country, you must meet the immigration requirements that would give you the right to work in the new country. Next, all ICAO countries recognize the pilot certificates of other ICAO members. Recognition does not mean that you may fly as you like in the new country on your pilot certificate from your home country.

Each ICAO member has procedures that allow the holder of a pilot certificate from another ICAO member nation to be converted to that nation. In this case the conversion would be from OZ to the US and the FAA, like CASA, has procedures for this conversion.

The regulatory requirements for the conversion are available on the faa.gov website. The regulation needed is found under 14 USC 61. Part 61, by the way, will be the regulation in Australia as well once the pending regulatory changes take place there. FAA Part 61 details the requirements for all pilot certificates and provides for the conversion of ICAO recognized pilot certificates.

The procedures require the verification of your CASA certificate, the obtaining of an FAA medical (14 CFR 67) and the experience requirements for each level of certificate sought. Only issued CASA certificates will be recognized. Non-FAA test credits or courses will not be considered. If you meet the experience (flight hours) to hold the FAA certificate, then you may convert with a minimum of fuss by basically taking the written exams for Commercial and Instrument or Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) and then taking the appropriate flight tests. These requirements are very similar to the CASA requirements and fairly uniform among the ICAO member nations. If you do not meet the experience requirements for a particular certificate then you may take the additional training and then apply for the flight tests.

Once you have obtained the right to work (check out the J1 work visa program) and converted your CASA pilot certificate to an FAA pilot certificate, then you may have a fair shot at an entry level position. Actually, the new FAA certfiicates and the J1 visa program would enable you to remain in the US up to two years and work to "gain experience." Once the visa program expires, then you may not work anymore. But during that two years you could certainly flight instruct or do whatever work is permitted under that visa.

Flying in the US is diffent than in OZ and may take a little experience to get used to. I flew in OZ (ATPL ASMEL/Helo) and found the differences interesting. But view the differences as an adventure and check out the FAA website, then come over. We like and admire Australians and would welcome you.

Good luck!