DAT gets swedish government contracts - wonder why...
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DAT gets swedish government contracts - wonder why...
Seems like Danish Air Transport continues to expand, now they are apparently set to start flying some of the "Rikstrafiken" routes.
I met a DAT First Officer (flight student), if I can remember right he had to PAY THEM 350 000 SEK (!) to "work"!? He could only afford to "work" for a few weeks then he had to go back to his old job to actually earn some money!
I tried to search here on the board, but couldnt find anything about this. Does anyone have the facts?
I mean paying for your rating seems a bit strange, but I suppose maybe from some perspective it might make sense. But paying to WORK... (If this is true) No wonder DAT can win the contracts!
/skunks
I met a DAT First Officer (flight student), if I can remember right he had to PAY THEM 350 000 SEK (!) to "work"!? He could only afford to "work" for a few weeks then he had to go back to his old job to actually earn some money!
I tried to search here on the board, but couldnt find anything about this. Does anyone have the facts?
I mean paying for your rating seems a bit strange, but I suppose maybe from some perspective it might make sense. But paying to WORK... (If this is true) No wonder DAT can win the contracts!
/skunks
tractor puller
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talked to the DAT people about a year ago, and 350' for an ATR job is as close as I can remember...and you only earned money for blockhours flown, and as far as my memory goes it wasn't much...
so you did actually get paid for hours flown, but had to pay to get there....
fecked up if you ask me....
so you did actually get paid for hours flown, but had to pay to get there....
fecked up if you ask me....
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As per my postings on the "Norwegian Air Shuttle expanding?" topic, this is what we all might expect in the future. It is a shame and I sure hope that un-professional companies requiring their pilots to pay such an amount will suffer a back-lash in the future. In the end, it is up to the pilot community to accept or not such a situation. Let us all hope for changing times soon!
Happy flying y'all!
Happy flying y'all!
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I heard they also live in a shoebox on the road. Eating dead caterpillars and smoking asphalt. It's a shame.
Nick. The Dick. Who should remember to ALWAYS log off PPRuNe after using a public computer -
Nick. The Dick. Who should remember to ALWAYS log off PPRuNe after using a public computer -
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As usual NOBODY comes even close to the real facts.
Only 4 pilots out of 40+ pilots on the DAT ATR fleet are working on a FOT (First Officer Training) contract. DAT does not use this concept anymore, but are naturally obligated to finish allready signed contracts. You are talking peanuts here gentlemen.
KADS: Please enlighten a bit more
....."I sure hope that un-professional companies requiring their pilots to pay such an amount will suffer a back-lash in the future"
Apparently working conditions in DAT are not that bad - they have allready received several applications from SAS Commuter pilots, who are willing to sign anything just to have a job, and keep their home and family in good shape!
It is always very very easy to sit with your fat paycheck in hand, and dictate what other guys should do or not do...jeeeez!
Only 4 pilots out of 40+ pilots on the DAT ATR fleet are working on a FOT (First Officer Training) contract. DAT does not use this concept anymore, but are naturally obligated to finish allready signed contracts. You are talking peanuts here gentlemen.
KADS: Please enlighten a bit more
....."I sure hope that un-professional companies requiring their pilots to pay such an amount will suffer a back-lash in the future"
Apparently working conditions in DAT are not that bad - they have allready received several applications from SAS Commuter pilots, who are willing to sign anything just to have a job, and keep their home and family in good shape!
It is always very very easy to sit with your fat paycheck in hand, and dictate what other guys should do or not do...jeeeez!
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Kopfschmertzen, for some strange reason it feels like you just might work for DAT...
When you say we dont come close to the facts, can you tell us what was not correct!? Dont think anyone mentioned how many were under this slavery contract.
Funny you should mention peanuts. As the saying goes: If you pay peanuts - you get monkeys! Although I suppose in this case its the poor monkeys who end up paying alot more than peanuts...
And I can only agree with KADS, I hope that when the tables do turn and pilots are not so desperate for jobs, a company like DAT will suffer the consequences for their behaviour!
When you say we dont come close to the facts, can you tell us what was not correct!? Dont think anyone mentioned how many were under this slavery contract.
Funny you should mention peanuts. As the saying goes: If you pay peanuts - you get monkeys! Although I suppose in this case its the poor monkeys who end up paying alot more than peanuts...
And I can only agree with KADS, I hope that when the tables do turn and pilots are not so desperate for jobs, a company like DAT will suffer the consequences for their behaviour!
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hey, headache, what KADS is trying to tell us is that he, like most of us, hate the idea of having to pay to get a job, which unfortunately is the case, especially here in scandi. Its sad that the aviation business has turned down this path....and KADS, I agree with you about the future....
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Kopf. -
My paycheck isn't that fat although I do have one. So when I refer to companies that are unprofessional in the mentioned respect, I do not talk about the Pilots, who I am sure are very professional in their on sense, but rather management who takes advantage of a newly graduated pilot's ambition to get that first job. I think it is an outrage to have pay to get a job!!!
If you yourself have payed for your job, you if someone ought to agree with me.
Ideally no pilot should have to pay for a job or a rating after having spent so much money to obtain their licenses. If the companies are afraid of pilots bailing out after getting type rated, put them in a time limited bond. That is a fair agreement, I'd say.
Therefore I stand by my comment that you refered to. Many companies get by without treating their employees (ie pilots) in such a way. The more of us who have that opinion, the less of us would have to pay to get that (first) job!
Kind regards
My paycheck isn't that fat although I do have one. So when I refer to companies that are unprofessional in the mentioned respect, I do not talk about the Pilots, who I am sure are very professional in their on sense, but rather management who takes advantage of a newly graduated pilot's ambition to get that first job. I think it is an outrage to have pay to get a job!!!
If you yourself have payed for your job, you if someone ought to agree with me.
Ideally no pilot should have to pay for a job or a rating after having spent so much money to obtain their licenses. If the companies are afraid of pilots bailing out after getting type rated, put them in a time limited bond. That is a fair agreement, I'd say.
Therefore I stand by my comment that you refered to. Many companies get by without treating their employees (ie pilots) in such a way. The more of us who have that opinion, the less of us would have to pay to get that (first) job!
Kind regards
Last edited by KADS; 8th Aug 2002 at 18:15.
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Skunkworks, Who cares about where you work or where I work(except that if I happened to work for DAT, you think I'm a monkey like all the other DAT employes), it is not really the issue here, but you are welcome to keep guessing. 
The issue is facts please!
The money and hours mentioned is as far as I'm informed far from correct. ...and NO, I'm not gonna publish any contracts..!
And Skunkworks, your comments about peanuts and monkeys was "very funny" - FedEx pilots could say the same thing about eg. SAS pilots! Every company has their own limits.
- don't worry - that's not gonna happen. Pilots will always be desperate for a flying job! All pilots are usually selfish and slaves of their hobby! The word Hypocrate pops up from time to time in my mind!
KADS & BENGT, I do sincerely agree with you, that nobody should pay for their flying hours. Bonding is more preferable. However it has nothing to do with unprofessional management at all. It is the result of living in a liberal world where the market mechanism rules. Unfortunately, it is time for some of you guys to wake up and realize that we do NOT live in an ideal world, no matter how much it would be appreaciated!
BTW - Now it looks like SAS pilots must increase productivity by 30 percent for "free" - funny world isn't it! The management must be very un-professional, and should therefore be punished severely for taking advantage of their pilots! 
The issue is facts please! The money and hours mentioned is as far as I'm informed far from correct. ...and NO, I'm not gonna publish any contracts..!
And Skunkworks, your comments about peanuts and monkeys was "very funny"
- FedEx pilots could say the same thing about eg. SAS pilots! Every company has their own limits.
I hope that when the tables do turn and pilots are not so desperate for jobs, a company like DAT will suffer the consequences for their behaviour!
KADS & BENGT, I do sincerely agree with you, that nobody should pay for their flying hours. Bonding is more preferable. However it has nothing to do with unprofessional management at all. It is the result of living in a liberal world where the market mechanism rules. Unfortunately, it is time for some of you guys to wake up and realize that we do NOT live in an ideal world, no matter how much it would be appreaciated!
BTW - Now it looks like SAS pilots must increase productivity by 30 percent for "free" - funny world isn't it! The management must be very un-professional, and should therefore be punished severely for taking advantage of their pilots!
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BTW - Now it looks like SAS pilots must increase productivity by 30 percent for "free"
Didn´t you just say that facts are the issue?
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I am sitting here with an add from DAT from 2000 and it
states the following prices:
Beech 90/200 with
100 hours = 15400 euro
200 hours = 17500 euro
300 hours = 19800 euro
Beech 1900 with
100 hours = 18700 euro
200 hours = 20800 euro
300 hours = 23300 euro
ATR with
100 hours = 30800 euro
200 hours = 32900 euro
300 hours = 35500 euro
It includes MCC-course, Type rating and the mentioned number
of hours. And it also states the you will recieve a salery of 15 euro
pr. block flying hour.
states the following prices:
Beech 90/200 with
100 hours = 15400 euro
200 hours = 17500 euro
300 hours = 19800 euro
Beech 1900 with
100 hours = 18700 euro
200 hours = 20800 euro
300 hours = 23300 euro
ATR with
100 hours = 30800 euro
200 hours = 32900 euro
300 hours = 35500 euro
It includes MCC-course, Type rating and the mentioned number
of hours. And it also states the you will recieve a salery of 15 euro
pr. block flying hour.
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Jamen så 'enlighten' os alle Zico. Skal SAS'erne til at være mere productive for den samme hyre?.
Desuden præsenterede Kopf... det ikke som facts, men det er vel også uinteressant, eller hvad.
Der var forresten en masse sandt i hvad Kopf... sagde i sit sidste indlæg.
Desuden præsenterede Kopf... det ikke som facts, men det er vel også uinteressant, eller hvad.
Der var forresten en masse sandt i hvad Kopf... sagde i sit sidste indlæg.
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Zico - suggest that you ask Kristian directly if you have objections to the figure. BTW, both Lindegaard and Holm has confirmed figures like that in the Scandi media earlier this summer.
K. Soze - thks! It proves my point.
K. Soze - thks! It proves my point.
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Det samme gælder for co-pilots i Sunair. Her betaler man for sin omskoling og firmaet trækker X antal kroner fra din løn hver måned til hele "gildet" er betalt. Efter sigende er lønnen i forvejen meget lav i Sunair, så man får mindre ud end en arbejdsløs på støtten, når omskolingen er betalt hver måned
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"The issue is facts please" og " As usual NOBODY comes close to the facts"
Det er hvad Kopfschmerzen selv siger Techman, så derfor er det vel ikke for meget at forlange at han selv overholder det. Også selvom du ofte er ligeglad med facts!
Jeg kan desværre ikke "enlighten dig mere lige nu, da forhandlingerne foregår "as we speak", men "30% produktivitetsstigning for free" er IKKE hvad Kr. Holm har sagt.
21-22 aug ved vi MÅSKE mere. Indtil da ER der ingen facts.
Men den dag hvor SAS schedulering bliver dygtige nok til at sætte mit timetal op fra 600 til 800 pr. år (30%) skal jeg da gerne flyve det, af ren respekt for DERES nyvundne effektivitet og kompetance
Det er hvad Kopfschmerzen selv siger Techman, så derfor er det vel ikke for meget at forlange at han selv overholder det. Også selvom du ofte er ligeglad med facts!
Jeg kan desværre ikke "enlighten dig mere lige nu, da forhandlingerne foregår "as we speak", men "30% produktivitetsstigning for free" er IKKE hvad Kr. Holm har sagt.
21-22 aug ved vi MÅSKE mere. Indtil da ER der ingen facts.
Men den dag hvor SAS schedulering bliver dygtige nok til at sætte mit timetal op fra 600 til 800 pr. år (30%) skal jeg da gerne flyve det, af ren respekt for DERES nyvundne effektivitet og kompetance
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Hi Guys.
You want facts? All right here are some:
As Kopfschmerzen said only 4 FO’s are still on the “First Officer training program” called FOT, and DAT are obligated to fulfil their contract. Other than that this program has stopped. I’m not hiding behind aliases so it is not a secret that I am employed by DAT as a FC on the ATR’s.
To give you even more facts, my salary pr month is a base salary of 40.000 Dkr + pr Diems + production pay (300 Dkr pr Block hours). So I am not starving. I don’t think there are many “small” companies like DAT in Europe, who will pay a FC more money for flying their A/C. (Major airlines excluded). The Danish tax system evens out the difference anyway.
So like “headache” said: get your facts straight before you start biting at us.
DAT has changed a lot over the last couple of years…….And most important: There is a lot of really FUN contracts and flights all over the world.
SVE
You want facts? All right here are some:
As Kopfschmerzen said only 4 FO’s are still on the “First Officer training program” called FOT, and DAT are obligated to fulfil their contract. Other than that this program has stopped. I’m not hiding behind aliases so it is not a secret that I am employed by DAT as a FC on the ATR’s.
To give you even more facts, my salary pr month is a base salary of 40.000 Dkr + pr Diems + production pay (300 Dkr pr Block hours). So I am not starving. I don’t think there are many “small” companies like DAT in Europe, who will pay a FC more money for flying their A/C. (Major airlines excluded). The Danish tax system evens out the difference anyway.
So like “headache” said: get your facts straight before you start biting at us.
DAT has changed a lot over the last couple of years…….And most important: There is a lot of really FUN contracts and flights all over the world.
SVE
Last edited by SVE; 9th Aug 2002 at 08:55.
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Just to put some more jet fuel on the bonfire. Try comparing my information from the last reply with, let's say SKYWAYS. And remember that SKYWAYS are flying as SAS partner!!!!
Somethings wrong with this picture.......
SVE
Somethings wrong with this picture.......
SVE
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SVE -
I am happy to see some straight facts and glad you're leading such a great life! Good for you! But I'm not sure how this turned from being a discussion on the moral of newly hired pilots having too pay to work, into a slagging match on the best commuter airline in Scandinavia?
As far as I know, you don't have to pay to work at Skyways nor do you pay for your rating.... (To the best of my knowledge)
Rgds
I am happy to see some straight facts and glad you're leading such a great life! Good for you! But I'm not sure how this turned from being a discussion on the moral of newly hired pilots having too pay to work, into a slagging match on the best commuter airline in Scandinavia?
As far as I know, you don't have to pay to work at Skyways nor do you pay for your rating.... (To the best of my knowledge)
Rgds