Norwegian starts charging F/Os 200k nok for linetraining
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so what's the big deal paying your way into rhs?
there is a choice: go the "regular" way and stay less competitive or join the market forces and compete.
the swooning days of state carriers are over with massive offices, huge salaries and leave etc.
look at the car industry. somehow WV (being European) can comfortably compete with the rest of the world and still stay hugely profitable.
looking closer at LH they are still profitable despite global competition. give and take, aircraft, fuel, handling are the same across the board. what remain is staff, admin costs etc. to be trimmed.
however, i don't see ryanair as the benchmark (screwing pax BIG) but probably a compromise, when all costs have been included to/from airport, it's a matter of service and convenience.
at the end, to put it simply, it's up to pax to decide what they want to pay for = revenue, and management to control costs.
there is a choice: go the "regular" way and stay less competitive or join the market forces and compete.
the swooning days of state carriers are over with massive offices, huge salaries and leave etc.
look at the car industry. somehow WV (being European) can comfortably compete with the rest of the world and still stay hugely profitable.
looking closer at LH they are still profitable despite global competition. give and take, aircraft, fuel, handling are the same across the board. what remain is staff, admin costs etc. to be trimmed.
however, i don't see ryanair as the benchmark (screwing pax BIG) but probably a compromise, when all costs have been included to/from airport, it's a matter of service and convenience.
at the end, to put it simply, it's up to pax to decide what they want to pay for = revenue, and management to control costs.
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Ja, jeg skjønner at Norwegian ikke vil gi like mye i lønn til de som har base i Spania. Men de kunne ha gitt pilotene fast stilling med bedre vilkår for det. Noen har vel utgifter og/eller familie i hjemlandet også...
Ja ja, det er ikke bare jeg som misliker hva Norwegian driver med for tiden.
Pilotforeningen er også kritisk til Norwegians stadig utstrakte bruk av
vikarer i stedet for å ansette piloter fast. Og varsler dermed brudd i
forhandlingene rundt en ny kollektivavtale (K12).
- Vi har gitt ledelsen
frist til klokken 14 fredag om å signalisere en viss kursendring i forhold til
vikarbruk. Vi ønsker at nye piloter som hovedregel skal ansettes fast, ikke som
vikarer, sier Vatnar.
Mot full konflikt i Norwegian - VG Nett om Reiseliv
Ja ja, det er ikke bare jeg som misliker hva Norwegian driver med for tiden.
Pilotforeningen er også kritisk til Norwegians stadig utstrakte bruk av
vikarer i stedet for å ansette piloter fast. Og varsler dermed brudd i
forhandlingene rundt en ny kollektivavtale (K12).
- Vi har gitt ledelsen
frist til klokken 14 fredag om å signalisere en viss kursendring i forhold til
vikarbruk. Vi ønsker at nye piloter som hovedregel skal ansettes fast, ikke som
vikarer, sier Vatnar.
Mot full konflikt i Norwegian - VG Nett om Reiseliv
Nordlys skriver at flyselskapet sparer penger på å leie inn piloter fra de utenlandske vikarbyråene Arpi og Parc Aviation. De skriver at pilotene i stor grad er rekruttert fra Skandinavia, og utfører de samme oppgavene som sine fast ansatte, norske kolleger – men til en annen lønn, og andre betingelser.
Last edited by Engine_Failure; 13th Apr 2012 at 15:53.
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Hasn't anyone heard the term
"recruitment ban"?
or
"scabs"?
I'm sorry to mention this for the wannabes, but this will benefit you in the long term.
For current NAS pilots... if you don't act now, where would you picture yourself against a majority of contract pilots in the future?
"recruitment ban"?
or
"scabs"?
I'm sorry to mention this for the wannabes, but this will benefit you in the long term.
For current NAS pilots... if you don't act now, where would you picture yourself against a majority of contract pilots in the future?
Last edited by goku; 14th Apr 2012 at 05:41.
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Recruitment ban does not help. When some people are offered B737 NG to fly, nothing else matters at that moment, because ladies and gentleman in your mind you are about to become a "real" pilot.
People will pay almost anything even in Norway. Cmon, majority of these guys were flying jetstreams etc. before norwegian if and i mean if they were lucky to have a job at all. It takes few years for the economy to start rising and at some point pilotmarket will rise also. Then this kind of nonsense wont work anymore.
People will pay almost anything even in Norway. Cmon, majority of these guys were flying jetstreams etc. before norwegian if and i mean if they were lucky to have a job at all. It takes few years for the economy to start rising and at some point pilotmarket will rise also. Then this kind of nonsense wont work anymore.
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The point is not that norwegian are selling ratings. The problem is that the gang joining via this program now, will in two years time be sitting, shaking their heads at the next bunch of guys who will be paying the same amount PLUS 7000 euro for the linetraining, PLUS paying for their uniform AND doing it all for 12% lower pay.
Then two years after THOSE guys, a fresh batch of recruits will be joining with 25% lower pay, paying for everything AND their own hotel on over night stops at work.
Get the picture? The problem is the trend. A trend that will fast make this job completely worthless. Pilots are soon a laughing stock with big "L"-marks on their foreheads.
Stopping that is what it's about. Listening to the apologists who think norewgian are just doing what they have to in order to survive in the market are not getting it. If that's all it's about then why not fire everyone and re-hire them via some moldovan contract agency with 10 euro per hour and no benefits. Imagine the competiveness in the market place! Imagine the profit margin! Imagine working there....
Also, it's interesting to note that people who think this development is just dandy as long as flights are cheap haven't considered the possibility that these business practices might come nocking on their own door soon.
The battle fought long and hard to establish sound work environments and employee rights is being eroded. The right to have social security, maternity leave, a reasonable pension, compensation during sickness were won win blood, sweat and tears years before we were born.
The defining struggle for our generation will be to stem the tide of contract agencies and self-employment. You can see the trend in all sorts of places. People will soon no longer be hired as permanent employees but instead as one-man companies, thus circumventing the safety net put in place by earlier generations. Make no mistake about it, this scenario is a ceo WET DREAM. Just the hint of a possibility of lobbying successfully for the destruction of the right to proper employment is better than sex to these people.
The only thing that will make these suits see reason is MONEY. Present your middle fingers, set the parking break and go have lunch and enjoy watching them trying to explain what's happening to their international investors.
It's, as they say, crunch time now gents. Not just for aviation, but for working people. Stand tall and demand just treatment or they can fly their own goddam airplanes.
Then two years after THOSE guys, a fresh batch of recruits will be joining with 25% lower pay, paying for everything AND their own hotel on over night stops at work.
Get the picture? The problem is the trend. A trend that will fast make this job completely worthless. Pilots are soon a laughing stock with big "L"-marks on their foreheads.
Stopping that is what it's about. Listening to the apologists who think norewgian are just doing what they have to in order to survive in the market are not getting it. If that's all it's about then why not fire everyone and re-hire them via some moldovan contract agency with 10 euro per hour and no benefits. Imagine the competiveness in the market place! Imagine the profit margin! Imagine working there....
Also, it's interesting to note that people who think this development is just dandy as long as flights are cheap haven't considered the possibility that these business practices might come nocking on their own door soon.
The battle fought long and hard to establish sound work environments and employee rights is being eroded. The right to have social security, maternity leave, a reasonable pension, compensation during sickness were won win blood, sweat and tears years before we were born.
The defining struggle for our generation will be to stem the tide of contract agencies and self-employment. You can see the trend in all sorts of places. People will soon no longer be hired as permanent employees but instead as one-man companies, thus circumventing the safety net put in place by earlier generations. Make no mistake about it, this scenario is a ceo WET DREAM. Just the hint of a possibility of lobbying successfully for the destruction of the right to proper employment is better than sex to these people.
The only thing that will make these suits see reason is MONEY. Present your middle fingers, set the parking break and go have lunch and enjoy watching them trying to explain what's happening to their international investors.
It's, as they say, crunch time now gents. Not just for aviation, but for working people. Stand tall and demand just treatment or they can fly their own goddam airplanes.
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That's the best written piece on the subject in here bar none. I hope people read it.
The actions taken now by the "Norwegian" pilots reinfuses a (reasonably) young professional with hope in this business. Any corporation will try to profit from the degradation of terms and conditions of their workers, and finally the pilot union is showing that its job is standing up to corporate pressures. Set the parking brake and kick back until normal terms of employment are again the standard of the trade. You have the support of every single pilot out there.
The actions taken now by the "Norwegian" pilots reinfuses a (reasonably) young professional with hope in this business. Any corporation will try to profit from the degradation of terms and conditions of their workers, and finally the pilot union is showing that its job is standing up to corporate pressures. Set the parking brake and kick back until normal terms of employment are again the standard of the trade. You have the support of every single pilot out there.
It's, as they say, crunch time now gents. Not just for aviation, but for working people. Stand tall and demand just treatment or they can fly their own goddam airplanes.
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The only thing that will make these suits see reason is MONEY. Present your middle fingers, set the parking break and go have lunch and enjoy watching them trying to explain what's happening to their international investors.
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Perfect slogan for this industry "standtogehter" !!!
Alert the media, educate the passengers, get the message out there!
PARKING BAKE ON!
print the t-shirts. I´ll take one in large.
Alert the media, educate the passengers, get the message out there!
PARKING BAKE ON!
print the t-shirts. I´ll take one in large.
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Whatever the outcome, there is going to be changes in the current condition. And hopefully for the better in any case. My 2 views;
1. The disagreement ends in a strike. Eyes open all around Europe. Most will support their colleagues, but there are always some who are gravediggers and will try to benefit from this.
2. Management agrees to the union`s demands. Management then goes to national politicians to get some legislature in force so they won`t fall behind in the race to the bottom competition started by MOL and the likes.
Hopefully this disagreement will spark a fuse throughout Europe and force EASA to look deeper into things.
Middle finger response
And we`ve got your backs!
1. The disagreement ends in a strike. Eyes open all around Europe. Most will support their colleagues, but there are always some who are gravediggers and will try to benefit from this.
2. Management agrees to the union`s demands. Management then goes to national politicians to get some legislature in force so they won`t fall behind in the race to the bottom competition started by MOL and the likes.
Hopefully this disagreement will spark a fuse throughout Europe and force EASA to look deeper into things.
Middle finger response
And we`ve got your backs!
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Get the picture? The problem is the trend. A trend that will fast make this job completely worthless. Pilots are soon a laughing stock with big "L"-marks on their foreheads.
Everyone is saying we shall all stand together and fight! But how will that happen when there are loads of guys and girls out there who will silently stand beside and watch while their colleagues take huge risks to make a change. A change they will happily step in and take part of when it happens, but until then they won't do a thing. I for one hope that these people are told to **** off the next time they apply for a job at a better airline.
Wy don't the permanent employees at DY refuse to fly with the contractors? As stated above PARKING BRAKE ON!!
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Wy don't the permanent employees at DY refuse to fly with the contractors?
Ultimately however this is a large scale problem that can only be solved politically. The main problem is the spineless bought tools in the various aviation authorities and the politicians who do not care about the industry they are supposed to regulate because they are busy counting tax payer money and lobby money rolling in to their accounts every day.
Bring back crucifixion is what I say. You start nailing a few corrupt CAA managers and EASA reps to crosses for their neglect you will see things changing pretty goddam quickly...
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Good post somethingclever!
At the same time I find the whole situation a bit funny. A few years ago when DY started, most of you presently employed happily bought and paid for a rating, thus underbidding and undermining already experienced and employed guys who weren't willing to pay for a job.
If you guys and girls hadn't done so, a natural movement in the scandi pilotmarket would have taken place.
DY was the first to exploit the stupidity of young pilots in Scandinavia. Why not move the goalposts again as most of you went for it the first time?
All of you feeling betrayed should see this as a valuable lesson as you are pretty much experiencing the same thing you caused others a couple of years ago when you decided to go ahead and pay for a job when most people already employed and experienced decided not to.
Personally I wish you all well. I hope that you will stand united in this conflict.
At the same time I can't help wondering if you are not getting what you paid for?
At the same time I find the whole situation a bit funny. A few years ago when DY started, most of you presently employed happily bought and paid for a rating, thus underbidding and undermining already experienced and employed guys who weren't willing to pay for a job.
If you guys and girls hadn't done so, a natural movement in the scandi pilotmarket would have taken place.
DY was the first to exploit the stupidity of young pilots in Scandinavia. Why not move the goalposts again as most of you went for it the first time?
All of you feeling betrayed should see this as a valuable lesson as you are pretty much experiencing the same thing you caused others a couple of years ago when you decided to go ahead and pay for a job when most people already employed and experienced decided not to.
Personally I wish you all well. I hope that you will stand united in this conflict.
At the same time I can't help wondering if you are not getting what you paid for?
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Good post somethingclever!
At the same time I find the whole situation a bit funny. A few years ago when DY started, most of you presently employed happily bought and paid for a rating, thus underbidding and undermining already experienced and employed guys who weren't willing to pay for a job.
If you guys and girls hadn't done so, a natural movement in the scandi pilotmarket would have taken place.
DY was the first to exploit the stupidity of young pilots in Scandinavia. Why not move the goalposts again as most of you went for it the first time?
All of you feeling betrayed should see this as a valuable lesson as you are pretty much experiencing the same thing you caused others a couple of years ago when you decided to go ahead and pay for a job when most people already employed and experienced decided not to.
Personally I wish you all well. I hope that you will stand united in this conflict.
At the same time I can't help wondering if you are not getting what you paid for?
At the same time I find the whole situation a bit funny. A few years ago when DY started, most of you presently employed happily bought and paid for a rating, thus underbidding and undermining already experienced and employed guys who weren't willing to pay for a job.
If you guys and girls hadn't done so, a natural movement in the scandi pilotmarket would have taken place.
DY was the first to exploit the stupidity of young pilots in Scandinavia. Why not move the goalposts again as most of you went for it the first time?
All of you feeling betrayed should see this as a valuable lesson as you are pretty much experiencing the same thing you caused others a couple of years ago when you decided to go ahead and pay for a job when most people already employed and experienced decided not to.
Personally I wish you all well. I hope that you will stand united in this conflict.
At the same time I can't help wondering if you are not getting what you paid for?
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