Er der et safety problem i SAS ?
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Flip Flop,
The discussion has turned into a debate about Form 1, of which I thankfully know nothing. But the right people should, and I hope as you do, that things will be straightened out, if there are things to critizise.
As to the "insiders in SAS who tend to agree with "Rapporten", well I´d really like to see exactly what it is that they agree with in that programme.
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Zico ]</p>
The discussion has turned into a debate about Form 1, of which I thankfully know nothing. But the right people should, and I hope as you do, that things will be straightened out, if there are things to critizise.
As to the "insiders in SAS who tend to agree with "Rapporten", well I´d really like to see exactly what it is that they agree with in that programme.
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Zico ]</p>
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How come practically ALL the negative reports on SAS,whther they be operational,technical or commercial,seem to originate in Denmark?. .My dad flew for SK for some 36 years and during those years always regarded the Danes as "the Jews of Scandinavia",i.e. they want not only "their" piece of the cake,they want all of it and they want to eat it,as well!. .Recent (read 10-15 years) experience with the perennial discussions about staffing on the intercont. sector leads me to believe that the Danish CAU shows a very "understanding" of SAS' economic dilemma,all the time being one of SAS' most demanding and cost-escalating unions!. .Maybe a bit off the course for this topic,but still my 2 cents' worth.To me,it seems SAS would have been AOK hadn't it been for the Swedes and Norwegians!
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mad-dog,
That was one of the most ridiculus posts I´ve ever seen here. Tell me, next time we fly together, exactly your arguments for what you just said. Or mail me. But don´t do it here. That would embaress me too much, having a colleague making such a fool out of himself, in public. The stuff about the Cabin crew, you can sort out with them, but your last line, shows just how little you have understood. Mindboggling reading coming from a, supposedly, captain, me thinks. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
That was one of the most ridiculus posts I´ve ever seen here. Tell me, next time we fly together, exactly your arguments for what you just said. Or mail me. But don´t do it here. That would embaress me too much, having a colleague making such a fool out of himself, in public. The stuff about the Cabin crew, you can sort out with them, but your last line, shows just how little you have understood. Mindboggling reading coming from a, supposedly, captain, me thinks. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Yeah,Zico,I sort of see your point,but it was sort of intentional and meant to be sort of "satt på spissen".The last sentence in my previous post is (not was) meant to be seen from a "Danish" point of view based on mine,many fellow colleagues,several friends among the technical and engineering staff having related stories to that effect over the 20-odd years of my SAS-connection.. .My father,upon being given a copy of the "Ingeniøren" article,just stated "47 years on,and they're (the Danes) still racking down on SAS.Why?. .BTW,with the sort of scheduling I'm suffering,what makes you think we'll ever end up in the same cockpit? 
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mad-dog,
Well, you sure did put it "på spissen" and it also looked pretty intentional to me <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . But had you said "some people in CAU", instead of making it look like it is the general feeling amongst your danish colleagues, then I could have seen some reason in your post.. .The Intercont. forever ongoing debate, I can agree with. I believe that all should have the chance to fly LH, but that we should demand that people work their way to CPH, not all these thousands of passive flights, where people from OSL and STO go straight to the hotel (and danes going to OSL and STO for that matter), without producing anything before or after the LH flight. You know as well as I do that, that was the intention from the beginning, but it never materialized, and costs a tonne of money and production time. But that comes back to the scheduling dept. in STO.
The article from "Ingeniøren" has made your danish colleagues just as p***** off as it has you and your dad. But don´t blame your colleagues for the danish media. We don´t blame you for the Norwegian politicians <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Well, considering our schedules again I don´t see why not. I´ll fly P. to OSL soon, do a TOS and back, and fly P. on home to CPH. That´s a 10:20 day with 3:45 blocktime and 2 P. flights. From a mainbase. And that is not firefighting. That has been on my schedule for a month. There´s some more STO magic for you <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Ha det. And let´s all pull together.. .Zico.. .edited to delete a name, that shouldn´t be on here.
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Zico ]</p>
Well, you sure did put it "på spissen" and it also looked pretty intentional to me <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . But had you said "some people in CAU", instead of making it look like it is the general feeling amongst your danish colleagues, then I could have seen some reason in your post.. .The Intercont. forever ongoing debate, I can agree with. I believe that all should have the chance to fly LH, but that we should demand that people work their way to CPH, not all these thousands of passive flights, where people from OSL and STO go straight to the hotel (and danes going to OSL and STO for that matter), without producing anything before or after the LH flight. You know as well as I do that, that was the intention from the beginning, but it never materialized, and costs a tonne of money and production time. But that comes back to the scheduling dept. in STO.
The article from "Ingeniøren" has made your danish colleagues just as p***** off as it has you and your dad. But don´t blame your colleagues for the danish media. We don´t blame you for the Norwegian politicians <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Well, considering our schedules again
I don´t see why not. I´ll fly P. to OSL soon, do a TOS and back, and fly P. on home to CPH. That´s a 10:20 day with 3:45 blocktime and 2 P. flights. From a mainbase. And that is not firefighting. That has been on my schedule for a month. There´s some more STO magic for you <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Ha det. And let´s all pull together.. .Zico.. .edited to delete a name, that shouldn´t be on here.[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Zico ]</p>
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Mad Dog,
I cannot say why or if danes are more whinging than our scandinavian brothers and sisters, but perhaps it's in our blood. Danes are, generally, very un-authoritarian which can be seen from the elections on the EU and the Euro. When in doubt, or if the government says "YES", the danes will react by saying "NO", and usually get a better deal down the road.
However, the "missing" Form 1's is very much at the heart of the "problems" with SAS, as it is perhaps a sign of the possible complacency in SK management.
You, as the pilot group, and me as the passenger should always question the safety of the airline we work for or travel on. I can always vote with my feet and choose another carrier, but you as pilots can not do the same. And if you, being at the pointy end of things, don't question things then who should ? If we, as an industry, is not constantly reviewing our procedures and try to find a better or safer way, we will stagnate and accidents will happen.
Do you also find this to be a danish trait ? I would assume, that any airline employee has a strong interest to improve safety where ever possible, regardles of your country of origin. I do hope you agree.
I cannot say why or if danes are more whinging than our scandinavian brothers and sisters, but perhaps it's in our blood. Danes are, generally, very un-authoritarian which can be seen from the elections on the EU and the Euro. When in doubt, or if the government says "YES", the danes will react by saying "NO", and usually get a better deal down the road.
However, the "missing" Form 1's is very much at the heart of the "problems" with SAS, as it is perhaps a sign of the possible complacency in SK management.
You, as the pilot group, and me as the passenger should always question the safety of the airline we work for or travel on. I can always vote with my feet and choose another carrier, but you as pilots can not do the same. And if you, being at the pointy end of things, don't question things then who should ? If we, as an industry, is not constantly reviewing our procedures and try to find a better or safer way, we will stagnate and accidents will happen.
Do you also find this to be a danish trait ? I would assume, that any airline employee has a strong interest to improve safety where ever possible, regardles of your country of origin. I do hope you agree.
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Is this Mad Dog character a typical example of the corporate profiling in SAS? Is this kind of whining among collegues, (at least that is what I thought you were!!), normal?. ....Ah well, we can all have a bad day.
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Have been away for some well-earned (?) vacation,and return to a well-earned (?) dose of pepper!. .We can very well use the term "some people in CAU",however,lack of any criticism from "the other people in CAU" makes the the stance of CAU sort of official.The CAU stance is a perennial sort of thing that rears it's head every once in a while,read every time there's a change in SAS corporate management.There happens to be no other employee union in SAS that is more (sincerely?) concerned about the economy of the company than CAU.Especially in these times,and and in previous times of crisis.The solution is always the same:Any Swedes or Norwegian C/A's will have to be either CPH based or work their way to CPH.Working their way to CPH is of course the most sensible solution but it's simply not possible with the present collective agreements.Making CPH the base for most all of the intercont routes is an SAS decision,whether it was the right decision remains to be seen,but in the meantime it's the base we all have to relate to.If it's going to be so in the foreseeable future there will inevitably be costs attached.If "It's Scandinavian" shall have any meaning,we'll have to live with them.. .We're sort of straying away from the topic title,but I'd like to remind you about the ongoing Olympic Winter Games.No Danes to my knowledge takes part,only Swedes and Norwegians from Scandinavia.The Norwegian Olympic Committee has chartered a 767 from SAS.The flight was originally scheduled with an all-Norwegian crew.No interest was shown from CAU until it transpired that the crew would spend some days in Utah,be the guests of the Olympic Committee and receive tickets for selected events.Two Norwegian C/A's were dropped from the crew,the flight leaving with 2 Danish C/A's instead.Did they work their way to OSL?No!Did they spend time in a hotel prior to departure?Yes!. .I don't know about how the Swedish contingent travelled to the games,but if they chartered a 767 from SAS,I have a sneaking feeling there would be 2 Danes on that cabin crew as well.
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MAD DOG - there are indeed danes participating in the Winter Olympics, believe it or not <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> - 11 as far as I recall....! Probably an overkill to charter an SAS 767 though!
It really sounds to me that, SAS not only faces "threats" from the outside world, but also internal union affairs may harm our old scandinavian diamond seriously in the future.
Let's all hope for the best.
It really sounds to me that, SAS not only faces "threats" from the outside world, but also internal union affairs may harm our old scandinavian diamond seriously in the future.
Let's all hope for the best.
