Potential SAS shutdown?!
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Once again they havent done their homework.
For many, many years, the SAS group was providing their owners (the states) with significant dividends. As any responsible long-term owner would, the owners have now participated in a share issuance to protect their own investment. That is not to be confused with "subsidies".
There are two discussions; firstly, should the government be an active owner in large businesses? And secondly, will SAS be viable in the long term? The norwegian people are trapped as owners wrt the first question; the second one is held as a clause for the new share issue.
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Guttn, I sure didn´t but Mad Dog tries to blame his "colleagues" for doing something unfair to him while we who works for his compettitors might have bought our ratings but now we pay tax, tax that he desperatly needs to keep his job for one more year...
Talking about tax, I'm sure that I've paid much more than you. Because I haven't had to pay SSTR and linetraining, that I could deduct on my taxes
As bfisk says, the investors are trying to protect their original investment. Just as investors did when DY and others needed Stock emissions.
You think that SAS is doomed.
Until friday night I thought so too. Now I don't.
And likewise the governments and private investors obviously don't either. With the savings made,and the new emission, SAS just might be a very healthy competitor for you guys in a not so distant future!
We'll see.
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We need to differentiate just a bit here...
Traditional employment - get hired, company funds all training, no bs 6mo contract, on the payroll from day 1 of the TR
Low-cost - get hired, provided that you show up with a valid TR, often no contract until passed final release/linecheck, contracts offered based on company predictions/plans
- can also be divided into;
a) show up with a SSTR
b) same as a) but you also pay the company for linetraining
Please tell me which employer should receive, and deserves, nothing but your best.
Not saying that any pilot with a TR is better than the next, as we all meet the same minimum requirements for a pass. Just saying that one company wants to protect its investment, while the other passes on their training expenses to the trainees.
MDD has some very valid points. We can`t blame SAS´financial losses on lowcost airlines, because their history is just too long. We could, perhaps, if they were a new startup airline trying to do the right thing, but fact is that they have very seasoned and experienced crew who have been on the payroll for a long time. But, and this is pretty obvious too all one should point a finger towards the P2Fers blaming them in part for the continuos deterioration of crew terms and conditions.
Yes, long gone are the days when pilots were looked upon as more than transporters to warmer climates. When one actually had a chance of living the highlife and having quality time with your friends and family. My 2 cents anyway.
Sidenote; from what I read on hanar.no it seems that the Hungarian government now is the main shareholder in Malev. So, I guess, this can`t be 100% illegal or else the EU would not have allowed it.
Traditional employment - get hired, company funds all training, no bs 6mo contract, on the payroll from day 1 of the TR
Low-cost - get hired, provided that you show up with a valid TR, often no contract until passed final release/linecheck, contracts offered based on company predictions/plans
- can also be divided into;
a) show up with a SSTR
b) same as a) but you also pay the company for linetraining
Please tell me which employer should receive, and deserves, nothing but your best.
Not saying that any pilot with a TR is better than the next, as we all meet the same minimum requirements for a pass. Just saying that one company wants to protect its investment, while the other passes on their training expenses to the trainees.
MDD has some very valid points. We can`t blame SAS´financial losses on lowcost airlines, because their history is just too long. We could, perhaps, if they were a new startup airline trying to do the right thing, but fact is that they have very seasoned and experienced crew who have been on the payroll for a long time. But, and this is pretty obvious too all one should point a finger towards the P2Fers blaming them in part for the continuos deterioration of crew terms and conditions.
Yes, long gone are the days when pilots were looked upon as more than transporters to warmer climates. When one actually had a chance of living the highlife and having quality time with your friends and family. My 2 cents anyway.Sidenote; from what I read on hanar.no it seems that the Hungarian government now is the main shareholder in Malev. So, I guess, this can`t be 100% illegal or else the EU would not have allowed it.
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Engine failure
I apologise for the thread drift. You are correct, and it's my fault for,at one point, mentioning P2F.
I just do believe, that it is indeed,contrary to what you say, one reason for so many airlines troubles these days.
13th stage
No, the taxpayers didn't. SAS did that 14 years ago, before SSTR was known among airlines in Scandinavia. Then some stupid little airline in some stupid country asked a young pilot,desperate enough for a right seat, to pay for his TR.He said yes,'cause my daddy is rich... and the snowball rolled into Scandinavia. I've made money for my airline for 14 years now,otherwise I would have been kicked out, and in the meantime I've paid 50% tax. Governments invested their money 60 years ago, and it is that money that now, for only the second time in 60 years, they are trying to protect.
To your question,
I am almost embarresed to tell you, that I don't know Mr. Janssons grand master plan.He is a very bad communicator when it comes to telling his employees whom are doing a great job day to day, about his visions.
We call him Jesus! Everybody has heard of him,nobody's seen him!
I sure hope, that the investors that are asked to fill up the coffer's, know more than I do.They would be stupid if they just threw money into this airline,if they couldn't see a good road ahead. I don't think that they are stupid.
To be honest, IMHO this time,it was for survival only.
On the other hand, the cost base at SAS,as I'm told, is now where it should be for the company to be able to start competing again, instead of just downsizing,as we've seen for the last 8-9 years.
So,without knowing exactly what the grand master plan is, I do believe that SAS can now (well,in the coming years) be a big player again. And one that will pay the TR for young pilots too
Rgds MDD
I apologise for the thread drift. You are correct, and it's my fault for,at one point, mentioning P2F.
I just do believe, that it is indeed,contrary to what you say, one reason for so many airlines troubles these days.
13th stage
No, the taxpayers didn't. SAS did that 14 years ago, before SSTR was known among airlines in Scandinavia. Then some stupid little airline in some stupid country asked a young pilot,desperate enough for a right seat, to pay for his TR.He said yes,'cause my daddy is rich... and the snowball rolled into Scandinavia. I've made money for my airline for 14 years now,otherwise I would have been kicked out, and in the meantime I've paid 50% tax. Governments invested their money 60 years ago, and it is that money that now, for only the second time in 60 years, they are trying to protect.
To your question,
I am almost embarresed to tell you, that I don't know Mr. Janssons grand master plan.He is a very bad communicator when it comes to telling his employees whom are doing a great job day to day, about his visions.
We call him Jesus! Everybody has heard of him,nobody's seen him!
I sure hope, that the investors that are asked to fill up the coffer's, know more than I do.They would be stupid if they just threw money into this airline,if they couldn't see a good road ahead. I don't think that they are stupid.
To be honest, IMHO this time,it was for survival only.
On the other hand, the cost base at SAS,as I'm told, is now where it should be for the company to be able to start competing again, instead of just downsizing,as we've seen for the last 8-9 years.
So,without knowing exactly what the grand master plan is, I do believe that SAS can now (well,in the coming years) be a big player again. And one that will pay the TR for young pilots too
Rgds MDD
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Age of the young pilots
MDD you say 14 years ago?
How old/young is the youngest pilot with SAS at the moment?
When you need to recruit again, would it be an airline of 21 year olds with a fresh rating (paid by SAS) and a Commander in his/her 50s?
If so, as retirement hits, would it not be an airline with an average age of 30? OR will you be recruiting experienced crews of all ages who coincidentally already have ratings (self sponsored or otherwise)?
I am sure the collective agreement must have a clause regarding this..
How old/young is the youngest pilot with SAS at the moment?
When you need to recruit again, would it be an airline of 21 year olds with a fresh rating (paid by SAS) and a Commander in his/her 50s?
If so, as retirement hits, would it not be an airline with an average age of 30? OR will you be recruiting experienced crews of all ages who coincidentally already have ratings (self sponsored or otherwise)?
I am sure the collective agreement must have a clause regarding this..
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Black coffee,
Youngest pilot in SAS has been there for 10-11 years now. Avererage age,I've been told, is 49 years
I have no idea who,and when, they'll recruit. Lots of the guys that were fired won't come back, I'm sure. So they'll need new people. If they have typerating already or not, I don't think will make any difference to SAS. Hasn't made made any difference in the past. They'd put you through the full course anyway. To shape you, you know
Collective has nothing to say about this.
Youngest pilot in SAS has been there for 10-11 years now. Avererage age,I've been told, is 49 years
I have no idea who,and when, they'll recruit. Lots of the guys that were fired won't come back, I'm sure. So they'll need new people. If they have typerating already or not, I don't think will make any difference to SAS. Hasn't made made any difference in the past. They'd put you through the full course anyway. To shape you, you know
Collective has nothing to say about this.
