pipistrelle

Any jobs in Finland, 6500hrs, would like to move to Helsinki (family reasons) any type of operation considered.

Vertolot

Hi,

Patria flight training (former Pilot Factory) school in Helsinki is looking for FI and IRI.

/Cheers

152wiseguy

Quite a lot of hiring going on. Blue 1 just advertised in the newspaper, Finnair were recently taking applications and no doubt Air Finland will be looking for crew again shortly. Good luck, you'll need it if you don't speak finnish or swedish.

An2

What is the deal on finnish operators anyway!? Do they accept swedish, or do one have to know finnish? (In which case I'm scr*w*d, 'cause the only finnish I know are the cussing-words! )

lennu

What are the chances of getting a job at Blue1 for a non fin?
They dont have any minimum hours stated on there homepage would they consider a TT500 with most of it on TP (flying to HEL i might add)?



any(positive)replies would be appreciated


lennu

pipistrelle

Hei Lennu, I filled out and sent off an application form to Blue 1 TT6500+ 2500command time, (all commercial) - I didn't even get a reply. Good luck

Ove R. Tallig

Don't Work For Blue1 They Screw You Big Time.

4:th of july

"Ove R. Tallig Don't Work For Blue1 They Screw You Big Time."

Could you fill us in on this a bit. I was under the impression that they were serious as employers and a solid company. What is it that we dont know?

Nick Figaretto

He's probably referring to Blue1s "tradition" of training bonds. Blue1 gives you a training bond of at least double the actual cost for every new type rating in the company. No matter if you are forced to change aircraft type because of company needs.

This means that almost all of the Blue1 pilots are under training bonds as they have changed their fleet so often.

Some of the pilots are under their 3rd or 4th training bond, and will never come out of it.

4:th of july

I see. Had no idea it was that bad. Thanks for info.

Nelli

You might also want to try FinnComm airlines. http://www.fc.fi/jobs/

Ove R. Tallig

Yes, regarding Blue1 I referred to what Nick F describes, training bonds double the actual costs, several bonds when company decides to change a/c type, and in general a very bad treatment of employees. Add up a low salary and lots of work, a variable roster with few days off you should be better of in almost any other airline.

This is not only my personal view, IFALPA is considering to put a ban on this company for the practises of several bonds etc..

152wiseguy

Bonding for every type course (at a rate way above the actual cost) seems to be the done thing in Finland. I hear finncomm are at it also.

low n' slow

Are the bonds at Blue 1 cumulative? I dont know if I'm using the right word here but in FinnComm if you switch type, the bond for the previous type ends and you start a new bond for the new type (so you can only have a bond for maximum 2 years at a time).

The fact that they double the bond price to what the TR would cost if you bought it in cash is a bit worrying, but I guess a bond is in the case where you cant take any more loans, a far better thing than going without a job...

FinnComm is looking for people at the moment, preferably DE captains but will need more F/O's for ATR's coming in spring next year. Their aim is to keep the ATR fleet finnish (although I doubt they will be able to keep it that way for any longer period of time...)

/LnS

Ove R. Tallig

Bonds are not accumulating, when you change and get a new bond the previous ends of course, but hey, it is still not the way it should be. To have subsequent training bonds when the company decides to change aircraft type is against IFALPA policies, it is highly unethical.

In the 16th-19th century landlords used slave workers and the slaves had to work hard to pay down their own cost. Sometimes the slaves were not called slaves but arranged under contracts like "debt bondage" or as "indentured servants" similar in terms to modern times "training bonds".

After working for years they were almost free to go when the landlord could sell the slave to another landlord and the slave had to work hard again to buy himself free.. The slave was in worst case never free to go. Similar to the system used by the airline Blue1 today when they force employees to resign a new bond when the previous soon ends. Some pilots are now in their 5th bond with the company, and could risk paying 40.000 EURO to get free from the company. Finnish law generally prohibits the company to force anyone to sign these contracts, but if you don't the company cannot use you as a pilot on their new airplanes and soon they find a reason to kick you out and then it could be hard to find a new job with a paper stating that previous employer had to sack you.. If you ever question these contracts forget about any upgrade to LH seat.

Slavery was officially stopped with the 13th amendment to the US Constitution around 1860.

We have yet to see when the Finns will stop this practise...

Amazing really that Blue1 is fully owned by SAS, Scandinavian Airlines.....or maybe not...

kelb

Hello

Lots of bs from Ove and Nick.This is a information from inside of Blue1 concerning bonds.
you will be bonded after the type course but like it has been tested in court by the gyus who left to the charter company in Finland you have to pay 100% of your first type rating(you will be bonded for three years),50% of the second type and no bonds after the third one????? that is finnish law and it has been verified by the court. So if somebody else than these norwegian gents want to work in Finland keep this in your mind..... big time...

bluefish

Well, it seems there is quite a lot of confusing information around. Maybe it is partly unintentional but could also be partly intentional. First of all, no court has ever made any ruling about the training bonds at Blue1. The decision being referred to was made by an arbitration hearing. This kind of arbitration doesn't have anything to do with the official judiciary system in Finland and a decision made by an arbitrator does NOT set a legal presidence. Furthermore, arbitration rulings ONLY concern the people involved in the arbitration.

Now, what is actually going on then? As said some pilots left the company and disputed the validity of the bonds. The bonding agreement says that any disputes regarding the agreement shall first be settled by an arbitrator before the dispute is taken to court. Such an arbitrator was selected and he made a decision that first bonds must be paid to 100%, second bonds to 50%, whereas any further bonds were dismissed.

In the CLA signed in 2005 it was agreed that the company will negotiate a separate agreement as to the application of training bonds with the pilot union. The CLA clause also states that the mentioned arbitration result should be considered in the agreement being negotiated. No such agreement has ever been negotiated with the union. The company has decided to just start implementing a practice of a first training bond of 3 years, the second bond being 2 years. Further bonds have not been implemented. The problem is still that pilots are forced to sign training bonds in the case that the company chooses to renew its fleet with new aircarft types and the pilot has no other option than to get a new type rating if he wants to go on working.

I wouldn't call it slavery, but it definately is not legal or fair. Even if you are guaranteed to only sign two bonds you could still end up being tied to the company for five years. A court would rule out this practice as illegal. The only problem with taking the issue to court is that there has to be a personal dispute between the company and one or more individuals before there will be a trial. In practice that means that someone has to get fired before the matter can be taken to court. That WOULD set a judicial precidence and would force the company to discontinue its current practice. At the moment there is NO court decision and the comapny has NOT made the agreement about training bonds they are obliged to make...

Aslak

At the moment it seems like everyone is looking for pilots.
Finnair's on going recruitment will most likely suck quite a few guys out of many other companies and those emptied vacancies, of course, have to be filled by others...
The BIG thing very soon will be the lack of qualified captains!
Finnair and Blue 1 may be able to do it on their own "in-house trained" pilots with normal promotions.
Air Finland, I do not know?
FinnComm, Air Fix and Jetflite, however, will be needing some DEC's very soon and very badly.
At least the 2 last mentioned companies are adding new bizjets and they do not have enough guys to be promoted to captaincy nor to fly the incoming planes!!!
So, guys interested in changing from bus driving to taxi driving, send in your resumes...

pipistrelle

Automan, thanks for a straight answer. I am still trying and won't give up. I have no problems with seniority lists or training bonds, I have worked in finland in the past and I find the way that the finnish companies put finnish pilots before foreign ones quite honestly refreshing, but really frustrating when an outsider. My wife is doing her best to teach me the finnish language(not easy) so hopefully that may open up some opportunities, However I am not too happy about the prospect of psychometric testing a very imprecise 'science'

CFI

Whoa, so you guys telling me this is a subsidiary of the Scandinavian Airlines you're talking about? An IOSA audited airline doing serious business whilst treating pilots like dirt? Alas, this smells like one famous Irish company...