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Originally Posted by golder
(Post 12059257)
There is a lot to consider when comparing countries
"Australia offers a warmer climate, higher salaries (20–30% more), and an outdoor-focused lifestyle, while the UK provides stronger historical, cultural, and European travel opportunities. Australia has a higher cost of living (10-25% more) but better work-life balance; the UK excels in public transport and cosmopolitan, dense city life." List of countries by wealth per adult - Wikipedia Median wealth per adult 4, Australia USD 247,453 9, United Kingdom USD 151,825 Best Countries for Quality of Life | U.S. News Australia#8 in Quality of Life#5 in Best Countries Overall United Kingdom#11 in Quality of Life#8 in Best Countries Overall |
No, Australia has gun controls.
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Originally Posted by West Coast
(Post 12067647)
Seemingly #1 on the list of critters that can kill you.
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Industry briefings chart clear course for Australia’s submarine future | Australian Submarine Agency
Industry briefings chart clear course for Australia’s submarine futureLast updated: 13 Apr 2026By ASA Media https://www.asa.gov.au/sites/default...R30587_lpr.jpg The AUKUS SRF-West Sustainment Industry Seminar in Perth focused on immediate and long‑term sustainment opportunities under AUKUS. Delegates examined how Australian businesses can support emerging sustainment needs at HMAS Stirling and prepare for the establishment of SRF‑W. PreviousNext 1 of 3Australia’s submarine enterprise has completed one of its most significant periods of industry engagement, following a series of inaugural national events that brought together federal and state government leaders, international partners, defence primes and hundreds of Australian suppliers to prepare for the demands of the AUKUS submarine program. Across March, the sector saw unprecedented participation in two major gatherings: the AUKUS SRF-West Sustainment Industry Seminar in Perth and the AUKUS National Supply Chain Conference in Adelaide. Together, these first-of-kind events delivered the most detailed briefings to date on sustainment requirements, supply chain pathways and the industrial capabilities needed to support Submarine Rotational Force – West (SRF‑W) and the construction of SSN‑AUKUS. More than 230 representatives participated in the national conference in Adelaide, where ASA, ASC and BAE Systems outlined the early phases of Australia’s long‑term submarine construction program. The UK Submarine Delivery Agency also contributed, providing updates on the UK’s parallel program and highlighting opportunities for Australian industry to support both nations’ future production pipelines. Held a week earlier, the Perth forum focused on immediate and long‑term sustainment opportunities under AUKUS and brought together senior representatives from Australian and UK Governments, UK industry, the Western Australian Government and local suppliers. Delegates examined how Australian businesses can support emerging sustainment needs at HMAS Stirling and prepare for the establishment of SRF‑W. ASA Head of Workforce, Industry and Supply Chain, Kate van Hilst, said the events were invaluable in building understanding of the once‑in‑a‑generation opportunities the nuclear‑powered submarine enterprise offers Australian industry. ‘These events gave industry the clearest picture yet of the scale and sophistication of the work ahead, and what it truly means to support nuclear‑powered submarines to UK and U.S. Navy standards,’ said van Hilst. |
Is Australia happy with becoming a vassal of the USA with the direction towards the right that the USA presents with under the current individual in the WH? I for one am not, and I have a vote. Germany, Sweden, and France had good options where Australia doesn't want to be a sycophant to what passes for governance in the WH today.
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?, Similar to a lot of countries, including Germany and Sweden, Even France is reliant on US tech,
Our main partnership on the Sub we are building, is with the UK We are getting secondhand Virginias from the US |
Originally Posted by fdr
(Post 12069301)
Is Australia happy with becoming a vassal of the USA with the direction towards the right that the USA presents with under the current individual in the WH? I for one am not, and I have a vote. Germany, Sweden, and France had good options where Australia doesn't want to be a sycophant to what passes for governance in the WH today.
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Originally Posted by West Coast
(Post 12069499)
Sounds like you’re in search of a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
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Opinion
Australia must be more self-reliant – but it can’t afford to throw the US baby out with the bathwater | Arthur Sinodinos | The Guardian Australia must be more self-reliant – but it can’t afford to throw the US baby out with the bathwaterEven under Trump, the American system of alliances is fundamental for Indo-Pacific security. That means staying the course on joint initiatives such as AukusWe must plan for a world where Australia is more self-reliant in economics, defence and security and has more options because it has built strong partnerships with like-minded democracies across the globe. But it cannot afford to throw the baby out with the bath water. The American system of alliances remains fundamental to the security of the Indo-Pacific, including America. We need them and they need us. The Trump administration is committed to the Asia pivot because of its own interests; a dominant China in east Asia is not in their interest. We need to keep smoothing the process of engagement. Staying the course on joint initiatives such as Aukus, the force posture activities in northern Australia, building on our decades of intelligence cooperation, will all assist. Keep calm and carry on: Top-ranking UK MP drops into SA for subs talks - News | InDaily, Inside South Australia Keep calm and carry on: Top-ranking UK MP drops into SA for subs talksAmid turbulent defence commentary from the American president, the chief secretary to the UK Prime Minister quietly jetted into Adelaide to meet key leaders over the nation’s vital subs deal last week. |
I think in the longer term, and I sincerely hope that DJT does not screw this up.
AUKUS is a good thing, when examined at the geostrategic level.
Spoiler
Most of my friends who worked there in the last ten years have quit, or retired. |
never say never, the fat lady hasn't sung
DJT or the power behind him, has approved the transfer of tech to the UK and AU, also the sale of the Virginia Nov 2025 The U.S. cleared up doubts about AUKUS by confirming the sale of Virginia-class nuclear-powered submarines to the Australian Navy Amid speculation over the continuity of the AUKUS security agreement, U.S. President Donald Trump dispelled doubts by confirming that his administration will sell Virginia-class nuclear attack submarines to the Australian Navy. The announcement, made after a meeting with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at the White House, marks a turning point in strategic cooperation between the two nations and reinforces Washington’s commitment to strengthening allied deterrence in the Indo-Pacific. AI bot Key Technology Transfer Approvals & Mechanisms
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That's good news, golder.
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"The Pentagon’s new submarine-building tsar, Robert Gaucher, speaking at the Sea Air Space conference on Tuesday (US time), said that in 2011, a Virginia-class submarine took 13 million man-hours to build, but today takes 70 million."
…………https://www.theage.com.au/world/nort...22-p5zpxw.html……… I wonder why the productivity of US submarine building yards has declined so dramatically. I guess COVID will be the stated reason, and its effect on loss on experienced workers, but this reported massive decline in building/construction efficiency is astounding. Also, if COVID is to blame, how come it has not affected other countries, such as Chinese, Japanese, nor Korean ship building in same way? COVID has turned out to be an excellent trial run for a weapon of mass destruction. |
I think
Perhaps lack of skills could be higher in manhours? Though the name is the same, the 2011 block ll and current block lV-V subs are different animals and would account for most of the manhour increase I saw they want to increase the manpower by 100,000, over the next decade |
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mps-warn-u...230100492.html
MPs warn UK-Australia-US security pact in danger of 'fading away' Britain’s landmark security deal with the US and Australia is threatened by dwindling political leadership, faltering investment and an overstretched submarine service, MPs have warned. The Aukus pact, announced in 2021, will see Australia acquire nuclear-powered submarines from the UK and US, along with closer co-operation between the three nations on new defence technologies. But in a report published on Tuesday, the Commons Defence Committee warned that “shortcomings and failures … threaten to prevent that promise becoming a reality”. Describing senior political leadership on Aukus as having “faded”, the committee urged the Prime Minister to play “a more prominent role” to counter “political drift”, with problems down to “a lack of funding or prioritisation” rather than any underlying technical issues. Committee chairman Tan Dhesi said: “Any undertaking of this scale requires committed, consistent political will and leadership. Unfortunately, we found that the UK’s political leadership on Aukus has dwindled. Aukus can’t be seen as just another defence programme; if it is to stay on track, then leadership must come from the very top.” The report also called for a more proactive approach to engaging with the public on Aukus as part of a “national conversation” about defence and security. It said the need for more engagement was “a recurring feature of political discourse” and would help provide the public support a project of Aukus’s length and cost would need. Among the problems identified by the committee was a “faltering” in investment, particularly in the UK’s only submarine construction facility at Barrow-in-Furness. Describing Barrow’s regeneration as “too big to fail”, the committee said investment must not be allowed to slip again, with Aukus’s success heavily dependent on the town’s shipyard. Mr Dhesi said even minor delays could “snowball over time”, with “potentially severe consequences” for national security and Britain’s standing with the US and Australia. MPs also called for rapid improvements at the submarine bases at Devonport, in Plymouth, and Clyde, at Faslane, Helensburgh, Argyll and Bute, to reduce pressure on an already overstretched Royal Navy. The committee heard the regular visits to Australia by British submarines required under the Aukus agreement could leave the Navy with “no breathing space” in a crisis given the limited availability of attack submarines. Earlier this year, the UK sent its only available Astute-class attack submarine, HMS Anson, to Australia for the first such visit. But the trip was reportedly cut short following the outbreak of war in Iran as there were no other submarines available. Mr Dhesi said: “Submarine availability is critically low. Without urgent infrastructure improvements at HMNB Devonport and HMNB Clyde the Government risks finding itself unable to meet its obligations under Aukus.” As well as problems with the submarine programme, the committee expressed concern about co-operation on new defence technologies between the three countries, known as “pillar 2” of Aukus. While acknowledging pillar 2 could prove “transformative”, the MPs found it had “so far failed to deliver on its promise”, adding a visit to Washington had left them in “no doubt that time was running out for it to retain credibility”. They called for plans to expand pillar 2 to involve other countries should be put on hold, saying the Government should focus on securing “swift agreement” with the US and Australia on projects that would provide “tangible benefit” to troops. The Ministry of Defence has been contacted for comment. AUKUS: Government must do more – and do it faster The UK Government must inject renewed impetus into AUKUS – a landmark defence partnership with Australia and the United States – if it is to deliver on its potential, a report by the Defence Committee has found. .The report, published today (28 April), warns that the scale and ambition of AUKUS means that it needs visible political leadership from the Prime Minister to counter the political drift that could see it derailed. Without this leadership, the Committee is not confident that the cross-government coordination, prioritisation and pace required to deliver AUKUS will be achieved. The new submarine class to be built under “Pillar 1” of AUKUS – the SSN-AUKUS – will form the cornerstone of UK security in the Euro-Atlantic region. Timely investment in UK submarine build and investment facilities to support SSN-AUKUS is critical: failure risks jeopardising the UK’s defence and security, and damaging our relationships with our trilateral partners. With progress in some areas having already fallen short, the Government must do more — and do it faster — to seize the opportunity that AUKUS presents and demonstrate the UK’s firm commitment to making it a success. Chair comment Chair of the Defence Committee, Tan Dhesi MP, said: “AUKUS is a once-in-a-generation chance to deliver state-of-the-art military capabilities, bolster the UK’s defence industrial base and skills, and to strengthen the UK’s relations with its partners, the US and Australia. “The opportunities AUKUS presents are great, but so are the challenges it poses. While the promise of AUKUS remains, our inquiry uncovered shortcomings and failings that place it under threat. “Any undertaking of this scale requires committed, consistent political will and leadership. Unfortunately, we found that the UK’s political leadership on AUKUS has dwindled. AUKUS can’t be seen as just another defence programme; if it is to stay on track then leadership must come from the very top. The Prime Minister should be an advocate for AUKUS within Whitehall – he must play a much more visible role in promoting and driving it forward. Without this clear political direction, we have serious doubts that AUKUS can be delivered. “AUKUS has already started to hit bumps in the road. Submarine availability is critically low. Without urgent infrastructure improvements at HMNB Devonport and HMNB Clyde the Government risks finding itself unable to meet its obligations under AUKUS. Likewise, Barrow-in-Furness is absolutely essential to the success of AUKUS, and more investment needs to be made in the area. “We have deep concerns cracks are already beginning to show when it comes to funding. The investment pipeline has already faltered. This cannot be allowed to happen again. Even seemingly minor shortfalls and delays snowball over time, with potentially severe consequences for the UK and wider Euro-Atlantic security, and our standing with our trilateral partners. “It is in all of our interests for AUKUS to be a success. Failure to show leadership and maintain momentum carries a heavy price.” Shortcomings and failings in AUKUS delivery The Committee’s inquiry found that there are signs that the investment pipeline that underpins the UK’s AUKUS commitment has already faltered, warning that this cannot be allowed to happen again. Meeting the UK’s commitment to increase visits to Australia from its Astute-class SSNs will be essential to maintaining credibility with AUKUS partners, today’s report finds, but it comes at a time when UK submarine availability is already critically low, and against a backdrop of deepening concern about the readiness of the Royal Navy. The Government must deliver infrastructure improvements at HMNB Devonport in Plymouth and HMNB Clyde at pace to relieve pressure on the current fleet and prepare for SSN-AUKUS. The town of Barrow-in-Furness is home to the UK’s only submarine build facility and plays an essential role in AUKUS, and the UK’s wider defence and security. With the success of AUKUS dependent on attracting and retaining a skilled workforce at BAE Systems’ site in Barrow, today’s report calls for more investment in Barrow from central Government: the town’s planned regeneration is too big to fail. Strengthening cooperation with AUKUS partners The Committee expresses deep concern over the Government’s failure to recognise the impact of barriers to workforce movement across the trilateral. It warns of bottlenecks; future backlogs and delays could threaten the delivery of SSN-AUKUS in the UK and Australia. The Committee calls for the urgent removal of workforce mobility barriers, including considering an AUKUS visa. Pillar 2 must restore credibility and deliver tangible results “Pillar 2” of AUKUS will see the UK, US and Australia collaborate on advanced technologies such as hypersonics and AI, but the Committee finds that it faces an uphill battle to restore credibility after a disappointing start. New capabilities must be delivered to the warfighter urgently if Pillar 2 is to succeed. The Committee also calls for a more joined-up approach to be taken within Whitehall to ensure that the UK maximises the potential prosperity benefits of Pillar 2. |
'Joined up approach from Whitehall' . And therein lies the rub !
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We see what happens, I don't know if the UK is like the US and uses media to put pressure
There are 3 now, We do have the option for up to 5 Virginias, if the UK is late The US is moving Pentagon awards $276m submarine contract in first for AUKUS pact - ABC News Pentagon awards $276m submarine contract in first for AUKUS pactThe Pentagon has awarded the first major submarine contract to deliver on the AUKUS security deal.The $US197 million ($276 million) contract is for engineering and design work to support the transfer of nuclear-powered submarine capabilities from the US to Australia. |
Personally I wouldn't call $1B huge. Barely the cost of a single MSAM unit these days.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-a...le-to-britain/ US approves huge submarine weapons systems sale to Britain The United States has approved a USD 1 billion foreign military sale to the United Kingdom covering submarine combat and weapon systems, technical support and embedded personnel to support the design and development of the next generation of nuclear-powered attack submarines being developed under the AUKUS trilateral partnership. The sale covers technical assistance to the design and development of what the notification describes as “AUKUS-specific vertical deployment tubes; common weapon launchers; multiple all-up-round canister support service modules; network input output units; servers and switches and custom electronics, which are specific components of the submarine warfare federated tactical system.” Also included are simulation equipment, engineering demonstration models, testing and installation equipment, software and source code, publications and technical documentation, facility support and personnel training, as well as “U.S. government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; test and trials support; studies and surveys; and other related elements of engineering services for associated equipment and program support.” A notable element of the sale is the provision of “embedded U.S. and UK personnel located in both UK and U.S. facilities to support submarine design,” reflecting the depth of integration between the two nations’ submarine programmes under AUKUS Pillar 1. The notification explains that the original Foreign Military Sales case, valued at $50 million, covered “non-recurring engineering support; design integration of U.S. equipment; submarine combat and weapons systems support for design and production of next generation, future class of nuclear-powered attack submarines developed for the Royal Australian Navy and United Kingdom Royal Navy, and developed as part of the trilateral security partnership between Australia, UK, and the U.S. (AUKUS)” as well as “delivery of software and technical publications for combat and weapon systems, and UK liaison office administrative support.” The revised estimated total cost for the case is now $1 billion, a twentyfold increase on the original value as the scope of the programme has expanded. Do note, however, that this does not mean that this is what has been spent. The State Department said the proposed sale would support US foreign policy and national security objectives by “improving the security of a NATO Ally that is an important force for political stability and economic progress in Europe” and would improve the UK’s capability to meet current and future threats by “providing an effective combatant deterrent capability to protect maritime interests and infrastructure.” It added that the acquisition would “enhance stability and maritime security in the northwestern region of Europe and contribute to the security and strategic objectives of NATO and the United States” and that “the proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.” Principal contractors named in the notification are Huntington Ingalls Industries in Newport News, Virginia; General Dynamics Electric Boat in Groton, Connecticut; General Dynamics Mission Systems in Fairfax, Virginia; Progeny Systems in Manassas, Virginia; Lockheed Martin in Bethesda, Maryland; and Systems Planning and Analysis in Alexandria, Virginia. |
Welll that deployment to Australia and then the Gulf didn’t last long, did it?
In fact, as she wasn’t reported transiting through the Suez Canal, presumably she came back around South Africa. Presumably stopping at Gib to offload or pick up tomahawk etc - depending on whether she’s heading home or east for the Gulf. https://x.com/dparody/status/2054866923402174648?s=20 Believe it or not, HMS Anson is in the Strait of Gibraltar.. Looks she is coming in. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bb36a0250.jpeg On her way in. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ca30e4bf6.jpeg |
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