Never raised a white one ? Singapore / Feb 1942
Never re-embarked in a rush ? Dunkirk, Gallipoli.....
Let's try to keep it to the sub subject.
There has been a major government change down under, so now the failure of the process can be offloaded to the previous one.
Being in need of nuclear subs is not the same as operating them, not even building.

Labor wont dump the project, its one of the few things the liberals did that is popular with majority of Australians. Last figures I saw it had 60-70% popularity, it was a not insubstantial amount of greens, which is why that after a few hours of criticising it the greens leader went AFK on the subject, polling came out it was popular even with greens voters

My bad. Capitulated & changed sides. :ok:

But sure, let's try to keep it to the sub subject.

"did that is popular with majority of Australians. Last figures I saw it had 60-70% popularity,"

But in a few years the bills start to arrive, the media run "ANOTHER VAST Cost Overrun" and the Liberals start criticising because there is an election coming up and any stick will do t beat on the incumbents

​​​​​​​best thing would be to lease one ASAP and get it showing the flag Doesn't have to be an Astute or a Virginia - borrow one of the RN Trafalgar's that are coming out of service - just get started

Possibly the worst option. Wrong end of the bathtub curve, lots of supportability issues. Taking revenge for the Ashes a bit far......

The final boat, HMS Triumph was due to be retired this year, that has been extended 18 months to 2024.

Several of the boats have, as they’ve aged, experienced thermal fatigue cracks in the reactor coolant systems, some critical. The PW2 reactors also don’t meet modern safety rules.

The chances of any having their life extended enough to be offered even temporarily to the RAN are between nil….. and nil.

The current proposal to base a couple of Astute in Australia and dual man them whilst training reactor officers and COs is about as far as the RN can stretch.

Agree thats the worst of all possible options, its worse than one of the the 688's. While it was a video and edited and possibly dramatised for TV the show they made last year on board a trafalgar did not paint the a ship (trenchant) in a good light in any way shape or form

Also note australia has mixed sex crews, neither the a trafalgars or 688 are designed for this. Virginia's are and think astutes are as well

Not really a surprise but as close to official confirmtion

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/aust...arine-courses/

Hmm - wonder if they'll put Oz Captains through UK Perisher...?
EDIT: I see they do already...

As you said we already do, we have been sending them to UK perisher since the days of the O-Boats. Last few years we have also been sending them to the dutch perisher and very recently they have been going through the a USN command course as well. Many of the australian captains, 3 last time I looked, are Ex Royal Navy

It sounds like a hell of a course - as you'd want it to be.
Great anecdote in the Hennessey book about the trainee who had a raw steak served to him in the captains chair by Teacher - because he wasn't being tactically aggressive enough.

"The current proposal to base a couple of Astute in Australia "

Out of a current force of four? and three more due to arrive over quite a long time? The RN have always said they needed at least 7 for current ops.

Anson currently on trials pre-commissioning. Agamemnon is due to to be commissioned about the end of 2024 early 2025 and the last Agincourt, around 2028.

I don't think there's an actual proposal to base a couple in Perth. That's far more likely to be a case of people adding 2+2 and getting 5.

However - it's not so long ago that visits of nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed warships to Australia were forbidden. ISTR Invincible (or possibly Lusty) having some real issues around that on a round the world tour in the mid to late 80s when she had a propulsion casualty and needed dry-docking. Not sure how many other kettle-powered ships have visited since then, although the policy is long-since defunct.

Nulcear ships have never been banned from australia. You might be thinking of NZ but australia pretty much continuously gets visted by nuclear powered aircraft carriers. Subs are way less common and neither invincible or a illustrious was nuclear powered

Been saying SK conventional subs need to be strongly considered for interem replacement for collins and maybe I was right

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/07/...e-collins-gap/

Nukes are/were banned from Fremantle.

Nuclear powered Carriers had to anchor on the outer anchorage at Gage Roads.

Subs could sneak down the channel to FBW and hide out there.

There are going to be more opinion pieces, than flees on a dog. This one is stating the Collins will go to 2030.

This doesn't allow for the LOTE. Starting in 2026 and finishing in 2038. With a 10 year service life. Taking it to the last one being in the water till 2048. There is also talk of some hulls may be suitable for a second update. Currently "The Collins Class are internationally regarded among the best conventional submarines in the world" I don't see that changing after the LOTE

There is also statements about other weapon systems covering any potential gaps. The potential gap may be covered, we will find out in 9 months.

"Astute" was completed in 2007 - so that's a +21 year programme for 7 boats. Gives you some idea of how hard it is to build up a fleet.

There was also a built-in timeline, to have continuality of build for the ship yard. Going into the next class. This was also suppose to happen for the Collins. Only they stopped all plans, the gov of the day had other ideas. Hence another reason of where we are today.