Very true, but not too many realistic AUKUS candidates in our corner of the Pacific though. Ultimately it is surely about building real military capacity down here, not another feel-good, all-inclusive but toothless confederation. Realpolitik.

I personally find it a bit sad that New Zealand seems to have drifted so far away - they have been a valued and trusted ally for so long. In the past it would have been a given that NZ would be in that acronym somewhere. How do most Australians feel about it?

Personally I'm wondering why South Korea and Japan are not part of that agreement. Both are significantly investing in their Military. Both are sharing Western values to quite some extent. Both have relevant potential for conflict with China.
Are the US concerned that this might be considered too much of an aggression by China?

Don't care, half of NZ live here and hate Australia, and make it known. Kinda like certain nationalities in the UK who are happy to live there but hate it and all that it stands for...

The thing that I don't get is how a commercial contract cancellation impacts upon Frances ability & desire to be a part of protecting their Pacific 'assets'. Are they withdrawing from the Pacific now? It's almost like they've cried so much to the EU that they can't back down anymore.
Was being part of a coalition standing up to China conditional on this deal? Does that make them Mercenaries? Obvious answers to both of those but, whilst we know Oz is not a big player in Military expenditure (big for us though), does the EU seriously want to undermine the fact that a lot of our kit is from Europe already?

This whole thing was pretty rushed and its why it turned into a cluster, betting there is some behind the scenes talks imagine with india, japan, singapore and korea to see if they are interested in either this or an expansion to quad

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That’s how ’The Australian’ feels about it. Personally I think NZ is small enough to carry on without having to make hard choices like the bigger players.

Poor diplomacy
 

Rare poster but since I'm texting from Dublin and aware of what happens to the grass when elephants fight, does anyone have insight as to why the diplomacy was so unnecessarily bad?

Lets see, how could the worst program work?....in the name of maximum equality share for the US and UK, and local jobs for AUS, US systems and weapons suite (or maybe even the reactor) is shoehorned into an Astute, BAE is hired as the integrator, and rips out all the perfectly good US gear and tries to splice it to the UK black boxes, and the whole thing is assembled by Australian pipe fitters and welders who are underexperienced with the specialized metals that go into sub work....ooh and several late changes in specs for new technologies and mission creep....

I hope that prediction doesn’t turn into a best case scenario!

Well, they could always let Lucas be in charge of the electrics.

Americans are quite realistic in pointing out the problems..... good to read that.

Some Aussies seem to regret that their workshare in the program with the French went to 90 % (?) to 70 then 60% (which is my knowledge)
Delays and cost-increase in the contract were coming exactly from that specific requirement, quite unrealistic because of the "lack of expertise" down South . It's a little bit similar to those people considering themselves " an aeronautical nation" .. yes, they share a common laguage with Brits and Yanks, theyr have airlines pilots scattered all around Asia and Middle-East, usually trusting the management positions because of their golfing abilities, but where are the factories, the research centers and the Technical Universities ?

Anyway, that was quite refreshing to learn about ex-PM Kevin Rudd being despised by quite a lot here, and NZ having to stay at the door - I enjoyed reading that, their world is not so solid, it seems.

And regarding the letter of program appreciation received by the French governement the morning of the AUKUS annoucement, saying as it has been wrtten above : "departments are numerous in government offices, they don't talk to each other " " that was a proof of the secrecy of the deal to come" does seem to me a little bit immature, like a child miserable excuse. Who is the petulant child once again ?
Petulant and livid maybe, but still with some honor.
Keep treating your allies like that, and you will see the results.

It's not the EU. It's France. They try to get some backing from the rest of the EU but the response is rather lackluster. It was an Arms Deal between France and Australia. End of. EU was never involved in that deal and would not have profited.
It's the general loss of interest of the US in the transatlantic axis and the massive shift towards APAC what worries Europe (and where the solitary retreat from Afghanistan was showing the same pattern). That part of the cry- out is rather genuine. The tears over the dropped deal with France are not so much (except in France where it is almost the opposite). That's probably more kind of support of Macron against Front Nationale/Marine LePen.

NZ is laughing all the way to the bank.....They have been under pressure for years by the Ozzies to increase their defence spend as a % of GDP but have resisted. To not be invited to the big table means that they didn't have to respectively decline the offer and then deal with the diplomatic fallout thereof.

Wow! Some serious thread creep from the spotters amongst us. As much as us Aussies are getting pointy in our panties about B-21’s, V22’s V280’s F15EX’s etc etc etc, we are the ultimate Bower Birds.
We will collect, gesticulate, pontificate all to you know, whaticate.

The submarine “announcement” will hopefully come to fruition, it is a no brainer in the current climate of the Xiping Dragon, whom is no doubt hell bent on ruling the Pacific and Indian Oceans - no matter the cost. Subs like the Virginia and Astute will keep him worried, we need those subs. (P.S. I ain’t Chips n Gravy - not weird enough)

As for the Spotter/Bower Bird milk bottle top collectors, perhaps we should put our energy in to pressuring our government to shorten the time frame of an off the shelf Virginia/Astute boat.

The Lord knows the Amateur, sorry, Australian Army Aviation Corpse will try and turn any V22/V280 into an IFR RPT Rotary Airliner never able to deploy and waste at least a decade reinventing the round wheel into a square wheel.

The RAAF will most likely see greater benefit from Rapid Dragon and an expansion of the Transport fleet, rather than F15EX, they are smart enough to know it.

Here is truly hoping that all the milk bottle tops, hair ties, and discarded lego pieces that us Aussie’s collect - never need to be used, and that Xiping Dragon drops dead soon and the Chinese people are left to enjoy their great country in a peaceful way.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....09ae7e9968.png
Macron: ""Tu es une merde !"
Biden: "C'mon Man - quit whining about the submarine deal"

India formalises acquisition of 56 Airbus C295 aircraft

Programme to kick-start first-ever private aircraft manufacturing in India; will contribute significantly to developing the country’s military industrial ecosystem

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And that relates to AUKUS in what way?

That would be the Jocks and Welsh, who depend on the English for handouts, which they waste.

From the JTA News Bulletin Jan 8 1968:

From History Net:

The word renege means; go back on a promise, undertaking, or contract."they have reneged on their promises to us"

I put the bolding in. Me thinks some French people are the pot calling the kettle "noir"