More news from Whats going on with Shipping on events in the Persian Gulf.

And do what, jump every time Trump asks?

It was only a few short months ago they were urging us and the rest of Europe to be less reliant on them for our collective defence. And then, before you know it, they cry foul when we tell them we don't want to get involved in their latest military misadventure.

Well worth a watch if you want an understanding of where the Iran war may go

Video

Salute!

Thnx ORAC, Lonewolf, et al for recognizing the fog of war RE: the short round that struck a school. Sadly, sierra happens, and we can only try to find out why and then do our best to prevents it from happening again.

The ROE and the extràordinary efforts by the planners and actual delivery folks on one side to minimize collateral casualties and damage in this conflict is beyond pale. Yet sierra happens, and there is no reason to disregard actaing upon poor intell or even intentional "poor" intell by nefarious parties. Happened to me a few dozen klicks nw of Plieku in 1968 when my wingie and I dropped on a small ville supposedly harboring an enemy big guy. Turned out it was a political enemy of the provence chief! Talk about feeling low! It is the second worst thing to find out other than you snuffed a bunch of your friends.

Despite the unnerving accuracy of the stuff nowadays that I would love to have had back then and on my second chapter, things have not evolved to achieve what most of the innocent critics think is possible.

Gums reminds all who have not experienced the opportunity to mistakenly drop a short round. Maybe Mogs can comment from his adventure in the 80's.

out,

Trump won't be there forever. Moreover his petulance flares and lingers like a match. Business had his measure, after the first stock market panic of his tenure. Sadly the second might prove to be a bit more sticky. Like most I don't know where this is going, but I'm totally against spaffing billions and lives so that this guy can delude himself he stopped another war whilst engaging in a " Christianist " excursion.
Safe days to those in harms way.

One of my old best mates who lives in Dubai, ORAC mentioned to me while we were zooming a few hours ago about the UH-60 engaging with the drone. Reports said AH-64 but looking at the X twitter feed its a UH-60 Black Hawk. One report said door gunner used their M134 to bring it down.. hasten to add she was worried about her eldest daughter being other side of the city awaiting cab/uber to come back home. She says air raid sirens going off here there everywhere, says two and now three major oilfields been attacked. Think the one today was Fujiarah (?) as she said.

Back in November in happier times, I attended the Dubai Air Show 2025 so saw their Joint Aviation Command UH-60L/M / Armed Black Hawks on static including one configured for aerial firefighting with unusual long boom by Dart Aerospace (my pics below)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d935bd3ef5.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ea74d8c5db.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0afde895b9.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9705c43653.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....04846ad04a.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2781d9c59d.jpg

cheers

Can anyone explain to this amateur why, with the budget available to it, the USAF is flying 62-year-old aircraft on daily missions in a combat zone?

The long boom is necessary to limit the rotor-tip vortices ...

El Grifo, I'd suggest Britain's "sea of misfortune" has been around since well before then, in the main, due to decades of successive UK Governments avoiding addressing growing issues across many areas of the UK economy and elsewhere.

That includes, but is certainly not limited to, the continual decline in our Armed Forces meaning that we have to scrabble around to send a ship, belatedly, to the Med. That issue has its roots back in the SDR in 2010.

Today, the decline in the relevance of the UK military in Europe is more to do with the fact that much of Europe is actually spending real money to upgrade their warfighting capability while the UK Government are basically only making "promises" of future spending ...... maybe ........ "if the economy allows" (or some such caveat I saw being trotted out) and, in practical terms, we are left with a legacy of decades of under-investment.

There is some new money but, how many months late is the Defence Investment Plan so we know what is actually being funded and when? And I wonder if the delay is because the Govt didn't realise just how unprepared the Armed Forces find themselves to meet the Strategic Defence Review from last year and so how much it will actually cost to close the capability gaps?

And that includes the very significant "new face of warfare" we have seen in the Ukraine War, and now being amplified big-time by the tactics employed by Iran (to get back on topic!!). Add in the current unpredictability as to what the US actually thinks (OK, it's CiC!) on a day-to-day, if not hour-to-hour basis about, seemingly, anything..... All that's done is make a bad situation worse - for everyone!

So, to blame the whole sorry mess on a "suicide note", even remotely, misses the real, long-standing, Government-wide issues of the last few decades. Well, that's my view of it at all! :ok:

Edited to add: Dreadful news re the tanker crew in Iraq. Irrespective of rights/wrongs/politics/egos/etc, we have guys and gals who are putting their lives on the line hour by hour on Duty. Watching just the "visible" manifestation of the Iran war, the constant flow of even just the C17's and KC135's, is quite sobering.

Want to have another go at that, as it stands the sentence is "incompl..."?

There are some very good reasons for the X-O-S sized in-flight refuelling probe, there is a great video of an MH-53 demonstrating one of the reasons.

I assume you are referring to KC-135s; because they exist and they work? B-52s are expected to fly for 100 years....

Because unlike commercial transport aircraft, they do not spend 50%-60% of the time day in, day out, flying.

I don’t remember exactly when they originally planned to phase out as the new KC-46 was to be acquired, but that’s been delayed due to serious deficiencies, some of which are still unresolved.

Well not usually...

Thanks... that makes sense. Tankers seem like such a crucial piece of infrastructure that I wondered why they hadn't been upgraded.

Big thanks, too, to everyone who posts here. I'm mostly a lurker, but often get a better handle on geopolitics from PPRuNe than from the nightly news.

I reckon, the military doesn´t have to earn money like airlines? Or even has an incentive to save money? Figuring in all the infrastructure required to operate them, the costs per flight hour must be horrendous. In all fairness, so are F-35 costs.

And I can´t see any B-52 flying over countries which have a reasonable working air defence system. Seems like only countries which are second or third tier opponents get it.

KC135 vs KC46
 

The KC46 is in service already. When you look down on an apron full of US tankers the first thing you notice is the size difference. The 135 looks miniature in comparison to its successor. The same would have been true if the A330 had actually made it into USAF service.

BV

So if it was deliberately aimed and the school was targeted because they hadn't done their homework properly - how does that not make it a war crime?

It wasn't a 'drop short' or accidental hit - and as for the knee jerk reaction from the administration that it was an Iranian own-goal can nobody tell the truth any more!!!!

What would be the reaction if (heaven forbid) an Iranian terrorist group blew up a school in DC because it use to be a DoD building but they hadn't updated their int?

KC135 has done , and still is doing, a great job

AAR can be hairy!

America - finish the job - get rid of the Mullahs whilst you have the chance .
no other option
UK and Europe = give all the help you can .