Arrows Collision
 

Old thread closed, so,

Any news of the two pilots and how the team is planning to proceed?

Both pilots OK. One with a few "bumps and bruises" from Martin Baker's best. I understand that an old soak is being "parachuted" in as the injured chap won't make a recovery in time for this season - rumour only...

Might be you BOAC...

When the same thing happened in 1984? they flew the season with eight ac. It seemed they didn't have a spare frame. Have things now improved to the extent of spare ac ?

Not very up-to-date (as XX233 is on the list) but it would appear that they have plenty...see link

Friends of the Red Arrows -- Reds Hawk Fleet

stackedup

I think they flew the whole '84 season as a nine ship.

STP

fantom - steady on with the 'old' bit...................:)

They cannot be THAT desperate

As I understand it there are 20+(?) Hawks in the sheds at EGOS nominated as future Reds. So as long as they can get a new smoke tank bolted on and the stick switches wired up they should have the full 9. It might not be coloured red (initially) but they should have a full set of cabs? Getting an up-to-speed driver is another game, however. Good luck to all concerned and best wishes to everyone involved and they get fit and flying in short order.

It takes a lot more work to modify a standard Hawk to Reds standard than sticking a pod on and wiring up the cockpit. When XX242 was modified it took BAeS many months to plan, manufacture and fit the pipework associated with the smoke system.

Other than the smoke and paint, are any other mods done, control throws etc ? just curious.

Ham

Thanks, I bow to your better knowledge and stand corrected. I'm a little surprised that there is not a Red11?

Modification to the engine to give a slightly faster response time. Not sure how much work that involves. Also, the paint job. Probably more but I don't know about them.

Radios, fuel control unit (FCU), front cockpit GPS, more headroom in front cockpit (all right I made that one up :p) and I'm sure there are a few others.

There are (was) 13 hawks for the RAFAT. With one downed and the other crippled, it's now 11.

Red's 1-9 are the display pilots, Red 10 is Road Manager (commentator, coordinates with bos during display, flies hawk for photo ops for the main 9-ship etc.) and then Red 11 (don't ask me what his job is!). No back-up display pilots as they would never be able to replicate the high standards required in each position of the formation.

Hope that answers your question Green Flash. Wasn't sure if you were talking about the aircraft or the pilots :)

Nah, waaay to easy.:)

What is different about the radio fit?

not quite 20 but at least 9 are going to be modded for RA's newer cabs

champ/crow

Thanks for the info. Yes, I meant cabs not pilots allthough I wasn't aware that Red11 actually existed! Presume 10 and 11, not being required to be display machines, can be sub'd by standard Hawks for the duration whilst they get another two ready?

R11 is the Wg Cdr and not technically a bona fide member of the inner circle. Reds 10 and 11 were spare jets so were, ideally, fully modified although an unmodified XX156 was borrowed from Valley in times of need.

I guess so. The fact that Reds 10 and 11 fly the RA Hawk is simply making use of the squadrons available aircraft so flying a standard one shouldn't hurt too much. The aircraft all get rotated around between flying members anyway as mx checks and technical issues crop up. Specific aircraft are not assigned to each pilot although each pilot has his own preferred ship. There are still enough hawks in the fleet to be able to fly the 9-ship although I'm sure plans are being fast-tracked to bring 1 or 2 aircraft from Shawbury into RA service pronto.

Was it XX253 and 233 involved in the crash?

Red Hawk buzzing around Scampton 16.45 this afternoon. Replacement airtest perhaps ?
How would he get out to Cyprus, as a singleton, or what would accompany him ?

I saw the Red Arrows last year and was expecting the usual cheesy display.

I came away with a different impression, it was one of the best displays I've ever seen. Maybe not as low & loud as the blue angels, but definitely the best reds display I've witnessed.

I hope they can sort things out and get flying again.

Yep, the removal of fuse 13.

Oh hang on, no, that was on the Gnat! :p

Quote:
it took BAeS many months to plan, manufacture and fit the pipework associated with the smoke system.
Have you done some Red Arrows smoke mod conversions then Gainsey ??

you forgot the cupholder and installed rapid deploy set of golf bats:E

How is busted shoulder stick monkey doing??? (banter, I'm an ex sootie with a chip or two)
Hope he's up and about - he needs to be fixing a jet:},

Seriously, I do hope he'll be back to turning avtur into noise and overtime very very soon.

Still, look on the bright side - both crew survived, can't ask for more than that.

A Hawk left Scampton this morning and routed out via Dover/Koksijde....presume this is a replacement/extra spare for the Reds being delivered

I'm guessing so since they tend to take 11 Hawks to Cyprus but only took 10 to Crete. Also they need a spare aircraft anyway following the accident. Any news on what's happening with the team? It's all gone very quiet on the news front.

No flying atm.
Meet & greet next Monday at Aki mess.

I can't imagine there's any way you could draft in a replacement synchro leader; surely it's the most demanding position on the team after number 1? Given that some people have mentioned that Lingy's been advised to rest his shoulder for 6 weeks, I'd guess it'd take longer than that to train a replacement.

Total wild guessing here, but I'd say if anything was going to happen it'd be a delay to the start of the season while he recovers?

Unless a recent ex-Synchro lead can be drafted back?

6 Sqn Ldr B D Murphy (2009)
6 Flt Lt P O’Grady (2008)
6 Sqn Ldr J H Turner (2007)
6 Flt Lt S D Stevens (2006)

Well last years synchro leader is this years team leader whicj throws a big spanner in the works! Any of the others listed above are probably too much out of practice (and busy!?) to warrant asking them back especially if Red 6 is only going to be out for 6 weeks. Granted he will be behind on training but this can be caught up with OSP's at Scampton. They train to fly 8-ship formations anyway incase of illnesses, bereavements or injury so the first part of the season will probably just be flown with the 8, with Red 7 doing some solo passes. All IMHO of course and we can all speculate until we hear something.

Wouldn't the Board of Inquiry (or whatever it's called) have to come to a conclusion about the accident before synchro can resume training?

Think you'll find a new Red 6 is being worked up ready to join the team as we speak. All round good effort, but I hope Lingy gets back in the air where he clearly belongs ASAP! :D

Just out of interest from a purely piloting technique - how do they plan to miss during the synchro cross (chopped at Valley here!)?

TVM

6 flies a predictable path with 7 being responsible for remaining clear.


Not all all suggesting that Monty was to blame, that is just the normal state of play & I have no idea what went wrong on the day. They both walked away so I'm sure they've thrashed it out & will overcome the issue.

Who can be on the team?
 

Regardless of BoI findings, actual blame or cause, there was a time where a Red Arrow member could not return to the team if they were involved in an accident. Has this policy changed?

In the past, accidents led to smaller display teams for the rest of the season. Wasn't the Red Arrow display season even cancelled back in the late 80's after a string of unfortunate incidents?

Only asking...:confused:

PP thank you

reaction times
 

On a slightly more serious note, i watched the video of the collision and it appears to me that the pilot of the crashed aircraft did a remarkable job of ejecting before it hit the ground. I would have time to go oh sh**, before the earth came up to meet me!! This got me thinking, does time slow down for fast jet pilots when flying in close formation? Has any research been done into whether the brain physically changes ie: neuro-, transmitters reacting faster etc, be interesting to see brain scans to compare with airline pilots say on a long haul flight. Bit too difficult to get the scanners into a Hawk i guess but an interesting concept.

On the large amount of long haul flying I've done, my brain activity could be measured using the Glasgow Coma Scale. ;)

Hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror ;)

Update scheduled for tomorrow (Wednesday 14th April). Stay tuned to official website.