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-   -   Spitfire V Mustang (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/394777-spitfire-v-mustang.html)

Blacksheep 5th November 2009 14:51


The very fact that you asked means you'll never understand
Speaking as an engineer, its a matter of horses for courses. To launch from a thirty foot hydraulic catapult rail, land in heavy seas, pick up a survivor and taxi back to dry land requires some very unique design solutions. The Walrus, like its mammalian namesake, is a very unique creation, ideally suited to its operating environment. As was the Spitfire. ;)

Jig Peter 5th November 2009 14:53

Son of Walrus
 
The Sea Otter was a much better looker than the Walrus, wonnit ?

brickhistory 5th November 2009 14:54

I'm greedy:

Spitfire Mk Vb

and the

Mustang B/C with the Malcolm hood

are equally eye-pleasing.

A2QFI 5th November 2009 14:56

Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder
 
Having read all the above thoughts mine are that the Spitfire, seen airborne, is marvellous and on the ground I prefer the Mustang. I am influenced by the recent Brietling adverts showing what I assume to be a Reno Air Race Mustang, totally chrome plated and well photographed to show it to best advantage.

L J R 5th November 2009 15:06

A Spitfire with the Sun behind HER and an ME-109 in front.........

Evalu8ter 5th November 2009 15:37

"I'd bet that most pilots would prefer to fly a Spitfire for a display, but if going to war they would pick the Mustang."

GPMG - I was perched in the cockpit of a P-51 asking some lucky sod current on both types that exact question. His response was simple - take off, display, land with no holding on the ground or crosswind the Spit wins. However, any display away from Homeplate and he'd always take the P-51. It doesn't overheat on the ground, has excellent VFR reserves of gas, can be trimmed to fly hands-off and is much nicer in a X-Wind. Almost sounds like the different design philosophy between an interceptor and an escort fighter doesn't it?

Thread drift, I know, but as well as looks, what about the sound? The gunport shreik of the P-51 puts my hairs on end...

Arclite01 5th November 2009 15:45

I think it's a bit like a programme I saw years ago (the world about us ??) about the Confederate Air Force - one of the 'Colonels' was asked the same question - his answer 'They are all like beautiful women, they're all beautiful - just in different ways'

I like that answer................

Arc

treadigraph 5th November 2009 16:36


I am influenced by the recent Brietling adverts showing what I assume to be a Reno Air Race Mustang, totally chrome plated and well photographed to show it to best advantage.
If it's the pic I'm thinking of, it's "Precious Metal" a Mustang converted to run an ex-Shackleton Griffon complete with contra-rotating props.

Arclite01, I've just been given a poor quality DVD with what sounds like that programme on - I think it's called "Colonel Culpepper's Flying Circus" and was presented by Ian Wooldridge. Good programme.

kluge 5th November 2009 17:03

If by lyrics beauty be measured;

Spitfire = the poem "High Flight"

Mustang = something by the "Beastie Boys"


But to be able to experience both........:)

boswell bear 5th November 2009 17:04

P51 D does it on the looks for me..... Spitfire MkI a very close second!

Dr Jekyll 5th November 2009 17:41

It's interesting that the Spitfire, like most aircraft is generally regarded as having lost some if it's looks as the design developed. Yet the Mustang seems to have done the opposite.

Dominoe 5th November 2009 17:47

Mustang V Spitfire
 
Heart says Spitfire. Head says Mustang. Given the opportunity to fly in either I`d chose the Mustang.

Data-Lynx 5th November 2009 17:59

Fit for Purpose
 
Blame 'Jim' as I wasn't going to bite. R J Mitchell started with small flying boats with the Supermarine Baby in 1917. This was the forerunner, with a better engine and name, of the Sea Lion MkII which won the Schneider Trophy in 1922 as a single-seat biplane. While the move to float planes, with the S-6b in 1931, lead to the development of the Spitfire, 'RJ' also explored larger wooden-hulled flying boats. His Seal was renamed the Seagull and the MkIII was taken up by the Australian Fleet Air Arm in 1925. In the MkV, he added a one-step metal-hull, a pusher engine, retractable main wheels and the capacity to be catapulted from a ship. When the Aussies took 24 MkVs in 1934, even the Air Ministry took notice and the MkV became the Walrus.

The Seagull V, appearance notwithstanding, was outstandingly manoeuvrable. "Mutt" Summers, Vickers' Chief Test Pilot, performed a full aerobatic routine including a loop at the 1933 Hendon display. It was discovered that the Seagull V had better water performance than any other flying boat, and could be operated in open ocean and rough seas one might not think such a small airplane could handle.
Add impressive low speed handling and it explains how Walrus crews explored and developed the 'controlled crash technique' for SAR. This required the pilot to stall the seaplane onto a wave-top as close as possible to a survivor in the water, thus keeping the survivor in sight.

The 'Shagbat' was never pretty but I have met a Fulmar pilot who remained eternally grateful to one Walrus and its team that picked him out of the oggin, when no other ship was in sight. I believe that 'RJ' explored the edges of what was possible at the time and in the environment and I agree with Blacksheep. I suggest that it was this trait that he then applied to the Spitfire.

mr fish 5th November 2009 18:39

on a purely subjective level,
to my eyes a spit (even late seafire variants) looks very much "of its time"

however, a late model mustang seems almost modern,
maybe a combination of the airscoop/teardrop canopy perhaps??

ohh, the F82 "twin mustang" is plain bonkers;)

Dengue_Dude 5th November 2009 19:26


ohh, the F82 "twin mustang" is plain bonkershttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/wink2.gif
Yep 'tis. Errr . . . which cockpit shall I fly from today :)

ShyTorque 5th November 2009 20:33

Damn- I left my map in the other cockpit... :ugh:

Dominoe 5th November 2009 21:47

Couldn`t We create a hybrid of the two? Imagine that.

Jackonicko 5th November 2009 22:08

"I'd bet that most pilots would prefer to fly a Spitfire for a display, but if going to war they would pick the Mustang."

Only if they wanted to lose!

Range apart, the Spit IX (and subsequent Marks) had it all over the P-51D.

Manoeuvrability, armament (20-mm over 0.50 cal, please!), handling and battle damage tolerance.

The best US dogfighter of the War? The F6F Hellcat. How can I be so sure?

The SETP ran an interesting comparison between P-47, P-51, F4U and F6F, which were evaluated by modern TPs and the Mustang fared surprisingly poorly, with the unpredictable and vicious departure characteristics attracting negative comment, and the aircraft was rated as being a poor gunnery platform, too.

I'd kill for a photocopy of the article, or better yet a scan.....

"Couldn`t We create a hybrid of the two? Imagine that."

You don't need to imagine - the Spiteful was a Spit with a Mustang type laminar flow wing.

Trojan1981 5th November 2009 22:33

In terms of looks it's a no-brainer.
Think Ford Mustang (NA Mustang) v Aston Martin DB(any)(Supermarine Spitfire)

I'll take the Spit thanks!

In terms of everything else they are a gen apart but I would still take the Spit:ok:

brickhistory 5th November 2009 22:38


Range apart, the Spit IX (and subsequent Marks) had it all over the P-51D.

Range apart?!

Kinda difficult to separate that little characteristic from the overall performance.


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