Ok, so I confess. I was sad enough to actually watch that. Whats even sadder though, is that whoever it was representing the 'Royal Air Force' didn't bother to proof it properly, or more likely, knew sod all about the Royal Air Force.

This sums up everything for me. Modernistic toss, all style (ha), no substance. Its a bloody mess and no mistake. No doubt, whoever is in charge of publicity and recruiting or who it was in uniform who approved this will be allowed to stay in post in order 'to put right, the wrong'. If it wasn't all such a bad joke, it'd be laughable. Cue jokes about 'I knew we should have kept Navigators, because..'.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95...st/raffilm.jpg

Thats nothing compared to what the two new aircraft tugs at Kinloss have on them will post a pic when i get one.

a 6ft RAF Roundel
on both sides

wtf..............

it just looks so gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh::ugh: :ugh:

The RAF lettering on the Gnat: How long did that last?
Was it carried over to the Hawk?
"Keep it simple sweetheart"
If "Joe Public" think it is Ferrari's air display team, so what!

Re: RAF YouTube Video
 

I found it amusing that the next 3 related videos titles are:
"Tornado making hash of AAR"
"Fire ass"
"RAF rise above the rest"
Genius:ok:
Didn't there used to be something derrogitory about Brown or Prescott as the top search result on Google.
P.S. Quote "Hercules (J) the only Herc quick enough to keep up with the Typhoon"
What is the J ramp and door limit, is it the same as the K?
A simple yes or no will suffice no slagging match need :=, I'm just curious.

Bayete,

Alas, you stopped too soon. Competing with 'Flying Objects' and just a little further down the list is Kinloss 'legend' Jamie, starring in that other recruiting classic.. 'Puke Drinker'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHuaR-pkwmw

Apology
 

First, I apologise to Jas Hawker and The Red Arrows for having started this thread. In my naivety I did not think that it would degenerate into the can of worms for which this forum is now regrettably becoming renowned.

The pros and cons of the new logo are unimportant. As far as I am concerned The Red Arrows represent to the world all that is best about the RAF, our Armed Forces and our country; striving for and maintaining the highest of standards, the ultimate in professionalism, giving our nation something that is world beating, to delight in and to be proud of.

The negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal wingeing tone of many of the (I am sorry to have to say it) Air Force posters on this thread represents what is worst in our Forces and our country. BigBusDriver, a civilian from the US, comments on it succinctly. Take note of what he says. This is a very public forum and the way you represent your Service on it makes me, a former soldier, feel ashamed of you.

Last, I want to wish the Team a successful, safe and rewarding tour to the Far East, representing our country, its Forces and its manufacturing industry. Stay safe.

Ohhh. You should have said you wanted us to agree with you! It would have made things far easier.

I am offended at your attitude. Please, if you want to use a straw man argument, do so.. but whatever you do, don't call me negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal. I don't know about you Mouse, but I've earned my funny pension, I have served my country (quite well, even though I say it myself) and I've earned the right to have my say, even if it isn't sycophantic mindless twaddle.

did you seriously expect anything else? :rolleyes:

You've joined the majority then.:p

Al R

If you'd read any of the other Red Arrows threads in which Clockwork Mouse is involved, you would realise that any criticism of them is impossible for him to accept!

I agree with you that, it is surprising that he would start a thread like this and not expect any adverse comment from the jealous, petty-minded and unprofessional people in the RAF not lucky enough to be able to ponce around in a Red flying suit contributing nothing to current operations.:E

I think his son must be in the Reds or in the support team. Any truth in that?

TFRK

I didn't have a pop at the Reds though, when I see them at places like Goodwood, I want to grab people around me and say 'Look you poncy fu:mad:kers, take your faces out of your cheap glasses of plonk and gaze up in abject humble awe at a representation of the finest combat fliers in the world today', and as I said, my respect and admiration for what they do is boundless.

But my point, and many others too, isn't aimed at them, but rather the w:mad:nkers who haven't got a clue about things like passion, pride, loyalty.. all that good stuff, who come out with a poxy half arsed paint job like that in order to make themselves look good. With the greatest of respect to Red 1, he possibly just churned out some copy (if he ever even saw it) generated by some underling in the Department for Amateurish PR Bo:mad:locks who needed to justify his place at the trough.

If anything, those of us who deride this silly civilianisation and dilution of the Red Arrows and the ones defending their core values. I rather think that Mouse has a greater issue with affording the opposition ammunition by debating so critically and introspectively it in a public way. To an extent, he has a point. Open criticism such as the 'Questions for CAS' thread won't be doing CAS any favours, but the bottom line is, things need to improve. Sure, the Air Chief Marshalls might have no new clothes, but as we're constantly told, the RAF is not a democracy, but it sure as hell is a meritocracy.

I too am an avid supporter of the Reds, but I must agree with Al R on this point. I don't know of anyone who doesn't know that the Red Arrows are RAF!

It is just another pointless and unneccessary waste of valuable money that the service can ill-afford, and displays a certain amount of contempt for those who need it most - SH, AT et al.

Clockwork Mouse.
Your comments were unwarranted. People have the right to comment on this kind of thing as much as anyone else - certainly some more than you do! To call them negative, small-minded, envious and disloyal simply because they disagree with you is a bad show, and I would suggest you retract those comments.

I would think that the likes of Al R and the hundreds of others who are frankly 'slumming it' at the moment, whether it be in Afg, Irag or in the mess, will be dissapointed that the RAF has found itself able to repaint 9 aircraft in a new (not-needed) colour schene, at some ridiculaous cost, whilst they are living in squaller many of them, without adequate kit etc.

TSM

actually it would cost f all if they let the RAF painters paint them.
Its the fact they come under a civvy contract that makes em expensive.

stop bloody moaning it could be worse they could have just binned em

.... except that the RAF has just got rid of the painters:ugh:

we are still painting we havnt gone yet!!!!!
Its not like they said the painters are finished then we all dissapear.:8

lol

£5 pair of painted shoes get em while they last.....

The Red Arrows. Possibly (probably) the most professional military aerobatic display team in the world. They have been around since the Sixties and are certainly the most recognisable display team in the world and are great ambassadors for UK PLC. I am a huge fan.

Good job someone thought to write "Royal Air Force" on the side though. I may have mistaken them for someone else.:rolleyes:

You may be surprised how many people outside (and probably inside unfortunately) the UK would look at you in bewilderment if you shgowed them a picture of a Red Hawk.

I work in the aviation industry in the US, with a lot of former military pilots and ground crew, and in casual conversation I've been amazed at how many of them have little or no clue about air power outside the US.

In that case, I blame the RAF Exchange officers out there then. What the hell they all doing out there if not educating their colleagues on UK military aircraft ;)

Bigbusdriver said,

There are many of them who have no clue about anything outside the US, including the fuc*king president.:(

You're right, I would be very surprised. But thats not the issue. it was not one of Red 1's stated aims, although it does raise an interesting point. You mean that this (gulp) paint job might not have been done to make the lads in the field feel respected, but instead, is nothing more than a tacky sales device? :eek:

Sorry, I refuse to accept that we'd be fed bull!!!! and tacky spin.. uh uh, absolutely no way. :=

Not at all Obs, got those T-shirts. What hacks me off is that we have to enhance our reputation with the Yanks as "The Borrowers" and equally, any bought in/rented assets (C-130) should be supporting the troops deployed.

Civilianise the Red Arrows!!

Then nobody will care if it is a BAe Roadshow with 'chartered' air support.

Call me an old Badger, but my God, if you have to verbally explain a change to a visual device, then it probably isn't a very good or effective change to that device - classic corporate "branding" to give some stinking consultant access to quarter of a million quid of taxpayers money again.

As for the "whinging" accusation, some of you need to brush up on the merits of banter over the dangers of carping - most of this is banter. And why would such an innnocuous change inspire this level of response if there wasn't some underlying and fundamental dissatisfaction with the very fabric of service life today? This is not whinging, it's symptomatic of a far deeper problem with service morale that will be ignored at Des Browne's peril. Another straw for the camel's back anyone?

In the airline world the fleet always gets a new paint scheme just before the owners go out of business. :eek:

Although I do not like the new paint scheme I do think that the reds are a very hard working good bunch. However, I'm just wondering if they will be utilising some of the on-base accommodation when they are on tour or will they be down town in a plush hotel. After all we are always told that we have certain restrictions for a good reason. Be nice to think it applies to all.

Like this one:
http://perso.orange.fr/provenceairspot/737maersk.jpg
http://perso.orange.fr/provenceairspot/IMG_6417.jpg (old one)
Don't worry too much about some Americans lack of education. Give them back with: "Oh I love those Navy "Thunderbirds". They are the best!" ;)

As I said in another thread, the RAF is doing no more than reflecting our society. The new paint job and Red 1's statement is part of the all important 'Corporate Spin'.
On this latest tour will they be accompanied by a Trade Delegation as was the custom with the Royal Yacht?

???? Don't you mean the RAF?

Yes, note edit!

Thinking about it, I rather like R.A.F instead of RAF.

The time might be right to strip away the spin and the hype and instead, go back to a time when we did things because they were the correct things to do. And not simply because it was considerd that perception needed to be pandered to with superficial corporate modernity. Hopefully, it would fire a shot across the bows of the lentil munching latte sippers at the War Ministry who seem to be running the place.

Seems R.A.F. is old hat now. When it was questioned I checked and sure enough nobody, not even the RAF, use full stops but I'm sure they did once, in my day, many years ago.

Ah, but taking out the full stops allows you to make it an acronym, then you can really abuse it!:ugh:

From the article on the RAF website about the new paint job:

How apt for the Red Peckers. More pulling ...... and tugging ...... crack on chaps!

RAF or R.A.F.
 

Sorry chaps, you all need to keep up a bit here. Surely now it's officially RAF.

Oops, just found my tongue back in my cheek again then!

Barnstormer1968:ok:

It still looks like Dave Starsky's Gran Torino.

That was in your time old fella. You need to let go as you are no longer part of the Modern Royal Air Force, or indeed any Air Force. The new generation are in charge now and they don't have time for your out dated 1950's ideas of what makes a great Air Force. Move on, sure go for a pint at the RAFA club and tell people how good it was in your day, but just move on. Things have improved now old timer. Relax and sit back and enjoy the twilight years of your life.:ok:

If things have improved why is there so much whingeing and cynicism (see 'Is anybody happy') over a paint job?
Anyway I was brought up never to say 'raff'.

Indeed. :)

Before you start insulting me again, can you remind me. Have I ever..

a) Insulted you by referring to you in a dismissive manner,

or

b) Were you ever shouted at by a Gunner?

Thanks. :ok:

At a risk of severe thread drift, the one big thing that has changed over the years (& I too do not say RAFF) is appreciation

....and regardless of what generation you come from, this is missing, and it is very important.

Minis wailing at 4am and 30mins to get into work, if you shaved on the way you got a bollicking, if you did a runner for the autobahn you got arrested. The German barns had rats and you froze, AOCs was a right royal pain in the arse, but above all else, you believed in what you were doing, and you got appreciation.

Now back to the thread. New kit, new helicopters, quality of life, teamwork and morale are all missing and when money is spent in a pointless exercise such as this, one cannot help but think that somebody, somewhere has got their priorities all wrong. Guys chewing dust by day and reliving nightmares at night have every right not to feel appreciated when in need of basic essentials whilst viewing threads such as this.

samuraimatt, patronising and uncalled for. There was a time when military ethos existed, and you did not need to keep the PEd staff in a job to prove it. The state of the nation is an effing mess, and there is no solution whilst MPs pull the strings, and those with the guts to speak out get sacked.

Rant over; I'll get my coat

Maybe after a recent sale of Typhoons to the middle east it should be 'Riyal' Air Force?

Samuriamatt
God willing you too will, one day, be a 'has been'. Look forward to it, it's a good position to be in.:):):) Far better than the alternative.:{:{:{