i went to cadets with Jas Hawker....

i'll get my coat.

With the most sincere and greatest of respect to Red 1, he should stick to being one of the trickest pilots we've got. Instead of presenting us with this abomination that looks like it was rustled up in a local primary school competition, we should spend time sponging some free advice from the best brand consultants we've got, to go with one of the UKs best brands.

For a moment, forget the virtues of continuity and tradition and precedent, and all that guff. For so many commercial and marketing reasons, that new scheme is appalling. Why on earth has an established brand seen fit to start amplifying on what it is, let alone what it stands for, after 40 years of exposure? Why on earth should a Red Arrow feel the need to display his levels of pride too? If the public doesn't know by now then this ISN'T the way to go about telling those who need educating. Once you have to tell people who you are, or that you're 'proud to represent the Royal Air Force' of all things, you've lost.

With the greatest of respect too, saying stuff like.. 'we are a visible way of reminding people of our colleagues’ hard work and professionalism in the line of duty', all we will do, is remind people that we have people doing aerobatics and going home to nice warm houses, when we have people facing danger and going home to a crappy cold tent. Thats being generous in fact. Because your bog standard bloke in the street won't make the connection anyway, and if he does, you'll have had to tell him about it, which again, creates new hierarchal issues with brand values and.. oh god, this is just too awful.

The best motoring brands, such as Bentley, Audi etc, make do without telling the world who they are. They don't need to, because they are known as the best, and thats good enough for them. They rise above the like of Skoda and Ford. They simply rely on a 'brand' perception, a logo, an image.. a set of values. Call me stupid, but isn't the roundel good enough for these people any more? Just try changing it in 5 years time too, and see what happens when you want to undo the harm you've done.

Dreadful dreadful dreadful. Now we're treating a Hawk like a RAF key ring.

Bah! They'll have to update that nice big picture in LHR terminal three!

I think it will be one of those logo's that you frown upon at first but after a while just get used to it.

What about these nice sedated a/c? :yuk:

http://thunderbirds.airforce.com/mediakit/p13.html

http://www.bluejacket.com/usn/images...gels_pcola.jpg

If someone can prove that Wg Cdr Hawker came up with the words in bold himself, and with no prompting from a spin doctor, I'll do a Tombstone round the Market Square in Wallingford on a market day, during shopping hours...

The logo just makes it too messy... it certainly wasn't needed. Like anyone needs reminding that the Red Arrows are from the Royal Air Force with a dodgy Y and A

Speaking of corporate cr@p - I actually saw someone wearing one of those RAF wannabe flying jackets the other day IN PUBLIC :eek::eek:

Plain stripe looks far better:
http://www.tvacres.com/images/starsky_model.jpg
...if a bit seventies!!

I've probably watched the Reds display as much as most people - and I don't really think the three words (however spelt) will be particularly visible when viewed from the average crowd line at a display.

That's not to disagree with much of what's been said here - merely to suggest it doesn't matter much.

Off to the Dubai air show next week - I'll report on what it looks like there....

airsound

even better
 

it was painted by civvies
because they have binned the painters trade. The reds have been done by civvies for the last couple of years along with the BBMF and Queens flight.

f****ng ***ts

"The logo just makes it too messy... it certainly wasn't needed. Like anyone needs reminding that the Red Arrows are from the Royal Air Force with a dodgy Y and A"

It reminds me of the days of Letraset - when you'd run out of the right font and have to find the nearest similar which would do. Hoping that no-one would notice.

What utter wanquerre came up with that awful design? Someone in the 'Corporate branding and marketing' department of the mad MoD box?

It simply says "Sorry, we ran out of letters and can't afford any more the right size"

Great 'Royal Air Farce' photoshop, November4! And Al R, very wise words indeed.

Totally unnecessary change IMO.

Surprising that the new paint scheme does not incorporate a pair of RAF training shoes (complete with RAF roundel) instead of the standard pattern roundel. :rolleyes:

instead
 

It should be like the new Ferrari F1 scheme. Go with the metallic Red with no writing except for a small ROYAL AIR FORCE in a different font in Metallic Blue alog the nose.

After all, we are no longer members of an armed service. We are an "armed business".

:ugh:

I am sure that the new logo will add value for our customers........:yuk:

This was the bit that confused me:confused:





...or was that a Freudian misquote?

What if the uneducated people were the enemy then? :8

Ha! Didn't think of that now did you?

Looks terrible. No need to worry about how much was spent on consultancy for this - not even a consultancy would come up with something this bad surely (if they did then thats another scandal altogether).

Tapering letters, sloping A & Y. My goodness what a complete design mess! Looks to me like an in-house total amateur job - sadly looks like not enough people were asked if it looked any good. Other theory is that someone senior thought of it, were told it was crap but ignored them by deluding themselves they were in possession of great vision, could see the big picture, "I'm sure I'm right" etc. etc.

Still, on the bright side it makes you realise how good & enduring the original design was.

Guess it was inevitable. That's the RAF's shiny new "corporate" titling with it's own distinctive (and universally disliked) font. Spare a thought for Mr H as I'm sure it wasn't exactly his idea!

Sadly, it's a symptom of just how tiresome the RAF's current PR guru's are. From my own experience and observations they really don't have a clue and they're doing the poor men and women of the RAF no favours at all.

Wonder how long it will be before the titles start appearing on aircraft other than helicopters? Not long I fear!

The bit that makes me laugh is how they've jumped on their copyrighted "RAF marking" which is of course a British Military Roundel. Not quite sure how they can lay claim to something which wasn't theirs in the first place. Still, nothing surprises me about these guys any more.

Thought exactly the same myself.

LMAO!! :D :D :D :D

(tho I DID think the mirror-wing thingy bit looked pretty cool... :oh:)

I think it's totally valid.

After all, how else will anyone know that the 9 red aeroplanes belong to the Royal Air Force?:suspect:

Oh Bollox; another keyboard gets sprayed with tea: ...and its all Harrogates fault!

Top skills

What happened to the dates at Lashkar Gah, Sangin et al? Put a bloody gun pod on them and make them do something bloody useful!!!

Anyone clever enough to be able to put "Women's Aux Balloon Corps" on the side of the jet picture for me???

LJ :E

:E

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8421/123xv2.jpg

Excellent!



.

We are stuffed for AT but Airhead Command can rent a Herc for a six-week Swan-Ex?
Something stinks.

Artdes

PERFICK!

Thanks mate :ok:

Now, let me get this straight - the jets are still red with a white stripe and its says 'Royal Air Force' on the side. What is new about any of that except the cost? :confused:
Reminds me of when BP trumpetted their shiny new logo some years ago, when the image consultants they hired just swapped the green letters on a yellow background to yellow on green at a cost of several hundred thousand quid.

Considering the original scheme (give or take some fin decoration) lasted 28 years, you can ask:

(i) What was wrong with the old one?
(ii) Did some 'Brand imagineeer' say 'That's soooooooooo 1908s, we need to bring you into the Noughties'?

and be thankful they didn't change the name to something more PC and warlike than 'Arrows' - 'The Pink Ribbons' anyone?

I'm hesitant to wade into this, as I am not a member of the armed forces, and never have been. However, I am a member of that group that is frequently accused of not caring about the forces; the British Public. I do care about my country's armed forces, and about the poor state they have been forced into by the Powers That Be. I am also a resident of the USA, where I see a much greater level of public support for the military.

From this viewpoint I wold like to make an observation. While I know that the British military has been treated very poorly by recent governments and cannot imagine what it must be like to go through that decline in person, I must say that if you expect the public to support you more you really should at least try to come across as a bit less cynical yourselves, at least in public forums.

The way you are carrying on about a minor change to the paint scheme of a PR tool you would think Gordon Brown himself had come to your doors demanding a kidney. The level of public support between the UK/US is often brought up in this forum, well the other side of that coin is that you don't hear the US military constantly complaining about every little thing. After a while it becomes less an endearing foible of the British Tommy and more like whinging.

The things you people in uniform do make me proud to be British, and God knows you have earned the right to a grumble, but good grief people, every little change isn't a conspiracy against you.

:ok:
Soapbox........Stowed/secure

Everyone is ranting because the money could have been spent on something a bit further up the 'to do' list.

Anyone want to stick my name on one :E

BigBusDriver

Thanks for the support. I think that this is entirely indicative of Government spin - money for shiney new logos and a dedicated transport aircraft to ferry their lordships around the Middle East in 5*plus accomodation; no money to get RnR transport aircraft for the guys who are fighting hand-to-hand in the Sangin and Gereshk Valleys (I'm talking about the Army "brown jobs"). It took me 3 days to get to Al Udeid via the RAF's fragile air transport system from Brize - I nearly booked my own £200odd flight to Dohar out of my own money because I was getting sooo very p!ssed off. However, I wasn't waiting to go home for my 7 days with my wife and family like the poor souls were awaiting my aircraft in Al Udeid. Maybe now you realise the malice in our sentiments?

Finally, this is just the thin edge of the wedge. Politicians claim expenses for just about anything and are relatively unaudited, if I buy anything over £5 during the day I have to provide receipts - then at the same time they will trust me to authorise the flight of a very expensive aeroplane - WTF Over...

If you want to learn more then look over the rest of the forum - the trust has gone and there are many people who are using up their good-will at an alarming pace.

Sorry about the rant, but you did ask...

LJ :)

will it solve anything
 

will the reds solve the middle easts problems by doing a few airshows? I think not. good on them for getting a jolly before Xmas but I wonder how many hangers on are travelling with them. Shouldnt that fact that we cant provide a Herc and have had to rely on the americans, tell them and the powers that be, that we are a bit stretched at the moment and it probably isnt the best use of financial resources (Rates/JPA/Fuel)

Or is it in a bid to get BAE some more dodgy contracts or to regain favour in the UAE.

As I said good on them but in the grand scheme of Defence Diplomacy cant think it will pay a large dividend.:ugh:

Lets not forget that BAE pay for the majority of overseas trips.

Hopefully, they'll help sell a few Hawks & save a few jobs at Brough...

... Red Arrows tour of the Middle East?

Think of the possibilities...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...edsbaghdad.jpg

BBC East Midlands Today have just done a piece on the "new scheme". In my own humble opinion as a non-flyer I have to say it looks ..well... tacky.(I'm being tactful).

The company I now work for paid 3 million quid in a re-branding exercise, justification for which produced a bucket full of advertising agency gobbledy-gook. The customers' response was "Why change it? What was wrong with the old style"? Done properly, re-branding can look good and it does improve the customers reaction and ups the sales; done badly, it leaves the organisation open to ridicule.

I think the Reds latest effort falls into the latter category. As my old teacher would say "1/10 - must try harder".

harrogate, bitchin pic :ok:

Big bus driver,

I don't think its so much a conspiracy; more people getting fed up with superficial and counterproductive rot being catered for, rather than issues of importance. And catered for badly at that.

I was chatting with a SNCO tonight, who has done almost 30 years service, and he was sitting in a slum. On deployment somewhere? No, his room in the SNCO and WOs Mess. Where are the priorities? The fact that this is the blind leading the blind must be the most disspiriting thing of all. And of course, it was done by a civvy.

It can have no reason, other than some pillock needing to get his name noticed on some loose minute about it. The RAF continues to be sold out, from within. Why on earth was there no one of integrity and balls to say 'Hang on. A) Why is money being wasted when we tell the troops there is no money? B) And why is it being done in such a crass and useless manner?'.

Do you think that the Royal Navy would allow 'The Royal Navy' to be splashed down the side of HMS Victory? No, because we all know who it belongs to.

Talking about tacky & waste of money.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuisT_is4NA