WSOp Streaming
 

Hi all, I have made my application for OASC and have been given my selection date. My chosen route is into WSOp and I have recently been to the NC-Aircrew briefing at Cranwell but one thing that was kind of misted over was how much choice in which way you get streamed?! I understand that Linguist get streamed straight away but can anyone help explain what happens to the rest of aircrew?
Thanks :bored:

Having spoken to one if the instructors on 55(R) Sqn recently, apparently 75% of studes get their first choice of streaming.

Thanks, do you know of any other RAF forums that I can get on?

In the old days, you were streamed on the strength of your performance at OASC/personality type(Myers Briggs etc ie: ESTJ for ALM) and other psychological factors. This meant that on the whole, those with a flair for languages went linguist, the introverted reflectors went AEOp, the technologically advanced went Air Eng and the gobby pragmatists went ALM, the really gobby Rotary.

Now it is very much a lottery based on vacancies and the observations made by training staff at Cranwitz.

Before anyone straps on the gloves for a bit of sparring, I will qualify that by having witnessed the process from most angles.

Anyway, you have to be in it to win it.

"In the old days, you were streamed on the strength of your performance at OASC"

True - the cream became pilots, the rest didn't.....

and that is what got one of my SAC promoted to Cpl with a High rec for NCA :)

BEagle,
In my day the wanabees got chopped. The really good ones got what they wanted. I wanted to navigate.
I was trained in all the arts to fly to Berlin and back, without landing. Thereafter I never really pushed a pencil in anger.

Beagle,

True, the cream become pilots. It's the milk that stop them doing stupid things from time to time.

Ring any bells from the distant past?

Wokka me old meister, you must be naught but a lad. In the old old days, you were streamed F/W or R at Brize at the end of Ivan T Seamus O'Burns' Loadie course. (Gilthrax 's if you want the official line).

After the colostomy bags went to shiny 10, and the knuckle draggers to Lyneham-on-the-hill, the top perfomers were streamed again after Strawbs. Slow deliberate types to Wessex, and handsome, confident debonair types to starships. There were no Chin hooks.

Well that's how I remember getting to Pumas anyhow!;)

CG

I have it on very good authority that the % who get their choice is greater than 75%, in fact closer to 85%. I am quite confident from what I have seen that the right people go to the right jobs, although you must accept that the Queen has the majority vote when it comes to allocation as the system decides were 'needs are'. In short, if there are 10 vacancies on the Nimrod and 10 students to choose from, the ALM wannabies will not get a look in, that is the lottery associated with 21st Century NCA.

The system is quite fair at handing out carrots & sticks to, and hard work is likely to play dividends. Everbody starts off at the same standard, but not everybody is equal after trade training, socially or professionally. There is no simple: Stars get....... Knobs get.......for both have strengths and weakness.
There is no point in trying to second guess the system.

There are differant qualities demanded by the various trades. The subsequent training systems can cope with certain weakness', whilst being intollerant of others. A long time ago, an NCA who I flew with whilst employed in my previous trade simplified it all by saying "You either have it or you dont". It was not what I expected and did not help my preparation for OASC an iota, but nowadays I can see that he has a fair point.

Bottom line, the training system is relatively short, work your butt off, show that you can fit into a multi crew environment without p155ing everybody else off (not every OASC graduate can do this) and keep your whinges to yourself, you may get lucky. Oh and remember this, it takes most trades at least a decade to get 3 stripes, do not take yours for granted or belittle them by acting like a dick after a pint of shandy.

Like your last line there tiger "so true" however the system for me would prevent me from applying in the first place! the jobs are so radically different that if you were set on one and you got the other it would absolutely drive you insane! I couldn't take that risk no matter what anyone tells you the percentages are!
On average the percentages may be X but the month you get streamed may just be the month that they need 6 Aeop's (old money) and two Alm's if you want to be a loadie and your told your going to be a dry man on nimrods you are in for one hell of a shock as there is no comparison whatsoever.
Jizman what do you want to do as you find that there are few if any that aren't bothered either way?

Toddbabe

Surely Jizhead wants to be a loadie? No-one walks into the AFCO WANTING to be an AEOp.

multiple choice NCA
 

Wait around for a few months, and the Air Eng option will be back on the cards, if they can find the staff to teach a course.

toddbabe, I would hazard a guess that a fair few of the 25% were really don't knows or don't minds.

If you have a burning ambition to do a particular job then you will probably have starred in that area.

Jizzman

I have just returned from Cranditz and have spoken to a few of the guys and gals on the course. Their view is it is all Kinloss, Kinloss, Kinloss, at the minute.

There have been lots of people want Helicopters and being sent up north.

"Bottom line, the training system is relatively short, work your butt off, show that you can fit into a multi crew environment without p155ing everybody else off (not every OASC graduate can do this) and keep your whinges to yourself, you may get lucky. Oh and remember this, it takes most trades at least a decade to get 3 stripes, do not take yours for granted or belittle them by acting like a dick after a pint of shandy."

Sage Advice Tiger Mate, that I wished I had!

I worked hard all through training, got good results in all the tests, although had a few 'Incidents' that ended up on my record (see Gatehouse Thread for Finningley Culture) but then over-relaxed when I got to Strawbs, got drunk, shot my mouth off, and pi55ed off a few of the old hairys in the mess. My Instructor was the Mess Manager.
I got Back-squadded and given an absolutely awful instructor (very short, moustachioed RS2000 driver for those there then) who then destroyed my confidence.
I then got chopped 2 days before heading off to Aldegrove for In-Theatre training on the Wessex, dropped back to AC, then decided to leave.

R 21,

that's probably got something to do with the number of people leaving KS!

Never

think thats what happens when an AEOp designed and approved this new and 'improved' (NOT) course at Cranditz!!:}

Kinloss, Kinloss etc etc

Not true

6 of 17 does not make it a single track road. I am quite sure that those travelling north 'against the flow' can be counted on one hand with several fingers remaining spare. Most got what they wanted (or joined for). Besides, as has been said before, there are no SOP splits, and decisions are made very late about branch division.

Regarding not running the gauntlet (toddbabe) I guess you have resigned yourself to wondering "What if" for the rest of your life. There is also a steady stream of Kinloss escapees rebranching at this time both ex Eng and AEOp, so the cross trade doctrine given by AFCO is true to a degree (Which I say because getting out of rotary is another kettle of fish altogether).

I left that museum a yr ago
 

Jizman,

It's good to see you've got your OASC date & best of luck with it. I left 55 Sqn 1 year ago & am about to go onto the OCU

The 55 cse is a cse for AEOps, taught by AEOps. You'll find a lot of the cse content pointless. In a 6 month period, there's only one week devoted to teaching the ways of the fixed wing/rotary loadmaster. If you're streamed the way of the loadie, you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, bitterness aside...

During the 6 months on 55 it's actively recommended you let people know your preference (i.e fixed wing, rotary wing, nimrod or linguist (which you are pre-streamed for anyway)) & they have a system for that. At the end of the cse, the powers-that-be sit in a room with a chap from Personnel HQ (at RAF Innsworth) & discuss each person indiviually. By the end of their meeting, your fate is decided.

My 55 Cse, started with 11 people & finished with 8. Of those 8, 1 wanted AEOp, 3 wanted fixed wing & 4 wanted rotary.

It turned out that 3 got AEOp & 5 got rotary. The 2 guys who got AEOp & didn't want it were mortified. They will try to give you what you want but if they don't need what you want, you won't necessarily get it.

The way they choose is:

The person with the highest academic score gets what he (or she...) wanted
The 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc go AEOp.

The rest go Loadie.

I'm waiting for the sneers & jibes to come through but the last 6 courses to have passed out of 55 all had that trend unless the person was pre-streamed (i.e the old system).

Hope it's some help but there's still a long way to go

ThePhoenix

Subject to service needs; this is a fair observation.
Absolute rubbish.

Excuse me if I'm wrong but the new course at 55 Sqn was designed by an AEOp who then got promoted into a job where he approved his own course design!!! The purpose of which was to get more people to Kinloss. After one of the Nimrod Squadrons was chopped that is maybe not the case... but if the shoe fits:}

Maybe an AEOp designed the new course because Loadies can't write? :}
Is this where I get proved wrong again? Expecting incoming :ok:
P.S. I agree that the course was redesigned to make it easier to send people to Kinloss, still I have heard good things about the the new structure.

Having recently gone through the new Generic course I disagree that it's geared towards WSOp (EW / Aco) - which I am! - but gives a better overall grounding to allow you to move between specializations later in you career (said expecting incoming). It's either the generic course or longer OCUs and less ease of changing later in life. Thoughts please?

Right sorry gotta bite.

The new course makes it easier for NCA to move around between specializations does it? Who exactly? Ah yes our AEOp chums. I believe no rotary mate cross trained yet to AEOp but not sure if any would. Why does it mean longer OCU's exactly? The new course has just delayed people who are streamed rotary actually getting to the squadrons.

I agree the course seems to cover a wide range of topics producing a well rounded trainee. However I think the extra cost in training should have been given to OCF's to produce a more rounded character specific to the aircraft they are going to be working on!

Supposedly yes, it does make it easier to move around between specializations. Why would an WSOp (EW / Aco) want to go and become a loadie...boring...bad knees...bad back...dare I go on?? The fact that no-one has yet changed comes down more to manning (or the lack thereof) I would guess as to move out someone needs to move in and replace you. It has prolonged the initial training but should you go around again later in life you would only do the specialist phase I would imagine. And cost wise, either do the generic stuff (met, tech etc etc) in 3 locations with 3 sets of overheads or in a single location, which makes sense as being cheaper. And with regards rotary boys, surely the holds prior to Shawbury are more of a delay?

Thanks for all the replies! Some were more helpful than others, but gratefull for all. My prefered route is defo into rotary.

Jizman

It's a funny old world. NCA, or airman aircrew in old money, used to be viewed as a heirarchy. Different course, different entry criteria, and different pay.

No-one would be an ALM if they could be an eng, and all the siggies were volunteers for the role- no question. (This might be where the old loadies with a-levels do the "I only ever wanted to be a loadie" line.)

Now everyone seems to want to be a crewman.

Go figure.

The way you're all treated these days, I'd be ok with a stude who withdrew at the end of the generic course, if the destination didn't suit. Training cost would be peanuts in the great scheme.

CG

Jizman

good lad

CG

totally agree times change

Easy Tiger,

Also just an observation

Letsgoandfly,

That's because you are an AEOp and are probably using things taught at 55 right now as you go through your wet/dry trg (or OCU). Speaking from a loadies point of view, very little of what was learned during those six months has been relevant at this point in time. Having completed the rotary loadie cse (a further year after 55), most of what was said by the staff has been forgotten.

R21,

I couldn't agree more.

Jizman

Definately the way forward.

ThePhoenix

Back in the day I wanted Air Eng first then Loadie, there was no way I wanted to sit in the Vomit Comet in the dark staring at a green screen....

We had the learn lots, take exams, then forget what you've been taught scenario in Loadie Groundschool.

You spent weeks working out the way to indiviually tie down the 58 variants of Landrover in Nato during the foundation course, and take 14 exams in it (and in-flight catering), and on the first day of Rotary streaming, it is "forget all that , you touch down, they drive in, you through a couple of P strops over, and you get outta there":uhoh: :cool:

The fact that no-one has yet changed comes down more to manning (or the lack thereof):=
Sorry to conterdict you but there's been 6 AEOps crossed over and passed(or soon to pass) the Shawbury course. I,ve not heard of any more coming this way and I,ve yet to hear of any loadies going the other way. Maybe it's due to location rather than job but I think the vast majority of ALM's could be re-trained to be AEOp's if they wish.
PS I am an AEOP I just can't spell that good!!:uhoh:

Fitting a Sliding door on the side, or a Ramp on the back of the Nimrod would probably make it alot more attractive to Loadies, it's nice to get a bit of fresh air while you're flying:cool:

It does on the Mighty Luncher as well. That's why they open the windows in flight!!:E :E

Quite frankly there is a lot of sh**e being spouted by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Phoenix, the generic phase has cock all to do with being an AEOp, its generic and contains no more AEOp specific training than LM!

Tiger mate speaks an awful lot of sense and has quoted actual figures.

Of those 6 who were streamed AEOp 4 wanted to be AEOp and one didn't mind, only one really didn't get what he wanted.
No rotary loadie has crossed over 'cos the Air Farce is a bit short right now.
As previously stated the vast majority of studes get what they want!
And by the way there was also a loadie on the team that developed the course.
Personally I think studes should be streamed by the OASC and instead of wasting 6 mths teaching them generic skills teach them trade specific....or is that reinventing the wheel.

Yes you are wrong! The Generic course was infact designed as a direct result from the findings of the AASS and then approved by TGDA, Innsworth. The team had a loadie on it as well, so no bias was applied, so back in your box R 21. (Is that your age by the way?)
The course content was agreed after extensive consultation with all specialisations and that's why there's no spec phase for rotary studes on 55 Sqn anymore. The bottleneck is with Shawbury who are stuck with piggybacking loadies onto a contracted course for pilots, which isn't very efficent for getting guys through, but produces a high quality product who is ready to then go through a demanding OCU.
The divide between loadies and AEOps will always exist no matter what, but naive remarks only do damage to those who still wish to become NCA, no matter what specialization they may end up as, think on.....

No rotary loadie has crossed over to WSOP (EW) because they don't want the job.

It has bugger all to do with being a linguist but they still have to sit through being taught by AEOps.

Ive seen some crap posted on PPRUNE but this thread is full of it. If you choose to join as NCA then you are streamed post the generic course. The streaming process is based on many factors that stem all the way from basic training at RTS for those recently from Halton, to how one has performed on 55 Sqn and OACTU and obviously what PMA 55 needs to fill at the sharp end. At the end of the day , piss people off at Cranwell and you'll not get what you want, (there are plenty have done this!!) cos you probably aren/t good enough for it!! Keep your nose ,clean work hard, play hard !but most of all be professional and always strive for excellence. Good luck , remember about 1 out of the 10 who ever think of NCA make it to a SQN.

OK, my turn to take the bait
 

How about: "they still have to sit through being taught by AIRCREW
It has nothing to do with the fact they are AEOps, it is all about teaching 'generic' airmanship subjects that ALL NCA aircrew have to learn. Yes, they also teach/lecture on some of the specialisations, such as acoustics and non-acoustics, but this is purely to give all students a flavour of the various specialisations prior to making a desision on streaming.
For those of you bleating on this thread that went through before the introduction of the Generic 'Airmanship' phase, then you are not really informed enough to comment, unless you are instructing on 55(R) Sqn or subsequent OCUs (although I do admit you are entitled to your own opinions, even if they are ill-informed.) For the 'whingers' on this thread that have been lucky/unlucky enough (depending on how you found the experience) to have gone through the new training programme, then you are new to the RAF NCA cadre and really shouldn't be commenting on how your own training should have been performed. Only until you have had at least had a few years front-line experience and maybe even some exposure as an instructor yourself, then you will be informed enough to understand whether you believe that the NCA training system is flawed or not.
Regards M7