Did You Fly The Valiant?
 

It has been suggested that there might be some mileage in running a Valiant theme along the lines of the Vulcan blockbuster. Unfortunately the Valiant fell to metal fatigue quite quickly but it was an interesting aircraft and there must be some out there who can pass on their memories.

As a starter I offer a story which connects the Valiant and the Vulcan together.Being a fairly primitive aircraft the Valiant was able to revert to direct manual control in spite of having power assistance. It was extremely heavy to fly without the power assist and almost impossible above 250kts. Prior to one of the Vulcan non-stops to Australia a Flat Iron pilot came down to Marham and flew a look see receiver sortie with Mick Meadows, the 214 Sqn QFI. Mick showed him a smooth demo of prodding and then handed over to him for a go whilst quietly tripping the power assist. The Vulcan guy struggled for a few minutes, sweat pouring off his brow and then gave up. He turned to Mick with obvious admiration as the Valiant slipped back into contact marvelling at his skill, Mick had of course put the PCU's back on. Being the gentleman joker that he was Mick did put the Vulcan guy out of his misery and he was subsequently able to make a few contacts though still having to cope with an aircraft that even with the PCU's on(not PFCU's in the Valiant) was quite a bit heavier to fly than the one he was used to.

Here's a question for everyone:

What was the last RAF use of the Valiant?

"What was the last RAF use of the Valiant?"

Bomber
Photo Recce
Tanker

B(PR)K

Gate guard at Marham

RAF Museum Hendon

Cold War display at Cosford (desig)

None of the above!

Come on then, BEagle, let's have it!
I enjoyed your words on the Vulcan, lets continue with the Valiant thread.

Taking part in the flypast on the 29th of April 1968 to mark the disbandment of RAF Bomber Command (which was now becoming Strike Command) ?

I'll add to ss's ?correct? answer:

Gate guard at RAF Marham - since gone away - (rusted/
disintegrated or gorn to the RAF Museum?:D

OK - XD818 at Marham was used to play the part of the Tu-16 Badger intercepted in that QRA movie. It didn't fly, of course, but a few blokes in old-style LSJs and leather helmets pretended to be Russians flying it and to look out at the F-4 which had intercepted them. Quite a convincing effort!

XD818 didn't rust away - it was moved to the RAF Museum at Hendon and was re-painted in original anti-flash white.

XD818 didn't rust away - it was moved to the RAF Museum at Hendon and was re-painted in original anti-flash white.

......and is about to join a Victor and Vulcan under cover at Cosford.

I don't suppose anyone can recall the names on the display board in front of '818, when it was at Marham?
Our ATC Squadron went to Marham on summer camp one year, our OC was a Nav called Derek Hood - a Flt Lt (I think) D. Hood was listed on the board as having been a member of the crew commemorated on the board, something to do with live drops of the weapon in Oz.

XD818 dropped the test devices on or near Christmas Island, not on Oz!

Anyway, here is a piccie of the crew, including F/O Hood:

http://www.christmas-island.org/hubb...s/page_22.html

Any of the A-bomb test aircrew still around? Any here? Would be fascinating to hear some accounts of those events - not technical stuff, more an impression of what it was like to be involved in doing such extraordinary things. A mere picture of a live A-bomb fills me with awe - god only knows what it must be like to actually set one off.

Probably a forlorn hope, the recent Cold War TV prog revealed the sort of secrecy involved, with the aircraft surrounded by screens as it was loaded so the aircrew never saw the bomb at all. Probably all had their tongues cut out after landing.

It's a real disservice to history IMO if there isn't to be a well written account, I'm sure all the technical stuff is well documented but that will obviously never be released. One of the great shames of the moon program is that we *still* don't know what it actually felt like to go there - those astronaughts were very bright chaps but none of them were blessed with great powers of description. The moon-shots and the Manhattan project are often referred to as the two biggest industrial projects ever, hopefully we can get better accounts of what must be one of Britain's greatest endeavours.

I missed most of the TV programme but I saw a definitely alive Alan Pringle whom I believe was involved.

The Valiant systems were mainly electrical and DC at that. The undercarriage legs had individual large electric motors for normal raise and lower plus smaller ones for emergency lower. This did not normally cause any problems however, on one particular sortie, it nearly resulted in the loss of an aircraft. Ted Longdon and his crew were recovering to Marham and selected undercarriage down, all was fine until the legs got fully down when a short across the selector caused the legs to retract again. Because each leg was independently powered the legs got completely out of sequence shaking the aircraft violently to the point were it seemed the aircraft might break up. Finally the crew managed to catch an instant when all three lights were green and the AEO tripped a vital fuse. A very pale faced crew returned to the squadron, somewhat shaken in every sense.

First Valiant prototype had some sort of fire in the air and took out its crew. Anyone know the details.

Milt,

As ever, Derek Collier-Wood's "UK Flight Testing Accidents 1940-1971" comes up trumps:

"12 January 1952 Valiant(P) WB210

Mr G.R. 'Jock' Bryce (Chief Test Pilot), Sqn Ldr B.H.D. Foster DSO DFC and bar (RAF Liaison and Co-Pilot) plus Mr G.R. Holland, Mr J.N. Montgomery and Mr J. Protheroe-Thomas (Flight Test Observers), Vickers-Armstrong Wisley, based at Hurn during runway construction at Wisley. Engine shutdown and relight tests, in connection with the noise measurement trials for the V1000, a projected military transport derivative of the Valiant. Fuel spillage from three previously unsuccessful re-lights leaking into the wing structure caught fire and burnt through the starboard wing. After the three Flight Test Observers had bailed out, both pilots ejected at 6,000ft and 200 knots over Holmsley South airfield, five miles northeast of Christchurch, Hampshire, in a steeply banked dive. Foster jettisoned the canopy and ejected first but was killed after striking the fin; the blast from an explosion in one of the fuel tanks may have reduced his escape velocity to a fatal level. However, it had been previously recognised that the Martin Baker Mk.3a prototype seats with an ejection velocity of 60ft/sec gave rise to a risk of collision with the fin and instructions were issued to fit 80 ft/sec guns. These guns arrived at Vickers two days after the accident. [Foster was recorded as the 12th Martin Baker live ejection and Bryce as the 13th. Modifications to the BPC cured the fault but extensive modifications to the protection of the fuel system were also made.] 1 killed, Cat 5. [Foster (30 years of age) had been a pathfinder bomber pilot with a distinguished war record and was a war substantive Wing Commander] "

The book has a picture of the aircraft, too , in natural metal finish.

A nice atmospheric photo Beags, the typical crew chief's beret style and upside down stripes bring back some old memories...

Them were the days ar'reet ...

Thanks BossEyed.

I should have known as I ended up sitting many hours on those 80 ft/sec guns and came close to trying to use one in the second prototype WD215 during its absolutely last flight, barely surviving a wing main spar failure at AUW following a launch using two Super Sprite rocket assist take off units.

At Boscombe Down in the late 50s we had 373 - can't remember the letters - in which I endeavoured to marry together the multiple boxes of the Navigation Bombing System NBS and the Mk 10 autopilot. Each box had in/out specifications and trying to sort out a string of them was a challenge to any TP. Then one had to test the protective devices to cater for full rate runaways of the autopilot throughout the flight envelope. Very exciting flights close to many manoeuvre limits.

Then we had a couple of Valiant bomb trucks which were employed extensively for weapon carriage and release clearances. Lyme bay must have thousands of inert bombs lining its bottom. That testing for the Valiant drove me to distraction because of the way the cg drifted around with fuel useage. How was it - use of wing tanks took the cg rearwards and fus tanks forwards? The cg slide rule ran hot trying to achieve conditions which would not over run the cg limits following a release of bomb clusters from forward or rear stations. Forced me to design a cg calculator using a centre reading micro-ammeter and a multitude of knobs.

We couldn't rely too much on whatever pilot we could find for the right seat, often enlisted from nearby bases with the question "Any pilots over there like a ride in a Valiant/Vulcan/Victor tomorrow?" This was all because TPs tried to avoid the right seats like the plague and we didn't have any regular right seaters.

Any of those one time right seaters care to come out of the woodwork with a description of the experience?

The very first trials unit of four B2 Victors was C Squadron which operated from the far side of the airfield at Cottesmore circa 1961, the CO of which was a very nice Sqn Ldr who's name I forget, but who came over to the crash-bay one day to introduce himself.

He was the Captain of the Valiant which had a serious in-flight fire and landed with a huge hole in a wing and a few seconds left on the main spar.

Samuel

What is a "crash-bay"? And what were you doing in it?

The crash-bay was where the airfield fire section was located, next to the Tower, and I was at that time a member of the crash crew.

The CO at the time was a Gp Capt Martin, who took over from the late Johnny Johnson.