quote: Tiger

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XD818 didn't rust away - it was moved to the RAF Museum at Hendon and was re-painted in original anti-flash white.

......and is about to join a Victor and Vulcan under cover at Cosford.

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Whats all this about a move...? That Valiant has a great little spot in the corner behind the Halifax remains. You winding me up?

001

Not just Lyme Bay full of Valiant detritus. The sea bed off the eastern end of Akrotiri's runway has a fair few rusty JATO/RATO (whatever they used?) bottles from Valiants. Only about 20-30ft down.

Remember at least one "silver" Valiant at Finningley in late 1950s/early 60s, I think it was with Bomber Command Development Unit but may have been 18Sqn.

Whats all this about a move...? That Valiant has a great little spot in the corner behind the Halifax remains. You winding me up?

No he's not.

'818 will be moved to Cosford, to be displayed alongside the Vulcan and Victor already there, as part of the new Cold War exhibition to be housed in the new building that's currently or about to be built.

Cheers for the headsup GeeRam!

Are they taking the old Blue Steel lorry and police Zepher as well, to fully complete the diorama?

I suppose the B.2 won’t miss her consort @ Hendon, (she’s got her back turned…!)

Couple of pics, The one tanking the Javelin is an 18Sqn aircraft, taken November 1960. Nothing to indicate what the other is about, PR role perhaps?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ntcanberra.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ValJaveAAR.jpg

The "top" Canberra is definitely a PR 9.
(Wing chord inboard of engines and tips extend beyond tip-tanks).

Mike W

Sorry to contradict you Gainesy but by the time the Javelin pic was taken XD816 was a 214 Sqn aircraft being by then a BK1 with the extra fuel pipery needed for the tanker role. Indeed I have the selfsame photo in my ancient logbook.

Regarding the bottom picture,

Was the Valiant a small bomber, or was the Javelin a huge fighter?

The two almost seem out of proportion.

No problem Art, just going by a scribbled pencil caption on the back of the print.

Passpartout, Yes x 2. The Javelin was a bit of a brute, in the climb and in the cruise, transit fit, the two aircraft had a pretty comparable performance. We would send the Jav on when a couple of hundred miles out from destination and they might be half a mile ahead after 20 minutes or so but when the descent clearance came they disappeared within seconds, the best descent performance you would ever see. The Valiant was the smallest of the V's and the slowest, cruising around mach 0.76 rather than the mach 0.86 of the other two.

Nothing to indicate what the other is about, PR role perhaps?

The top photo was taken for RAF Wyton's "Welcome" booklet which was issued to you when you arrived at the station. I still have mine, received it when I was posted in to 51 Sqn in 1965. The picture appears on page 5 of the booklet and shows the main aircraft that were then based at Wyton - a 543 Sqn Valiant, a 58 Sqn Canberra PR.9 and a 51 Sqn Canberra B.6(R) (bottom aircraft).

Valiant flight control feel system.

The Valiant had a rare feature providing the pilot with an ability to close down the flight control feel system which I recall was "Q feel". This indicated a lack of confidence by the designer in the long term viability of the system.

Were there any failures or bugs in service attributed to the feel systems? I think that I would rather have relied on Martin Baker to get me back down than my ability to land with an inoperative elvator feel system. Trying to land in manual was bad enough!!

I doubt whether squadron pilots would have been permitted to close down any of the three systems as without feel the forward weight of the yoke, if let go, would have been enough to pitch the aircraft over to a negative g value high enough to clap the wings together. This would spoil your day!.

Wasn't the Javelin (FAW 8?) the only aircraft designed that went slower in reheat - or at least engaging reheat actually reduced thrust?

That was true, the thrust did reduce at low level.

The fuel system was such that engaging reheat diverted fuel from the engine which would lose about 3% rpm.

For this reason it was recommended the reheat only be used above 20,000ft.

And wasn't the Jav also the world's first non-aerobatic fighter?

Didn't realise the Valiant cruised at only around M0.76. Was that due to the low sweepback angle?

But I learn that the Valiant B2 once cracked up 480 KIAS at low level! That would have been a truly impressive sight! I guess it was pretty heavy on the controls at those speeds though?

Henry crun

Did you fly the Valiant has diverted to Did you fly the Javelin for a bit !!

For my only ride in a Javelin, my logic told me I should shut down reheat/afterburner after take off. It then became a lead sled and the climb out was almost interminable.

After flight advice was "oh but you should have climbed in reheat".

Now you are saying my logic was right !!!.

Milt, re the Valiant feel system. I have vague recollections (after all we are going a long way back) of punctures in the bellows causing the controls to lose "Q feel" but I think there were some springs in there to retain a modicum of force.

Beags, I guess you have to remember that the Valiant design was of the middle of the century and Mach 0.76 was pretty good for an aircraft that size, the wing was certainly not greatly swept and was rather thick, bit like the Javelin. It has just occured to me that I started my operational flying on the Vickers Valiant and finished it 35 years later on the Vickers VC10, a very different aircraft.

It's memory and tradition lives on in the Tornado F3.

One or more Valiant attended the Nigerian Independence celebrations in Oct 1960 and my father, who lived there, got hold of some excellent 6x8 photos of the aircraft and whatever else was on display - some TU-104s and/or TU-124s at least, I seem to remember. As a new teenager I drooled over these for hours on end; the Valiant(s) just looked the bee's knees. Anyone here involved in that jolly?

M0.76 was indeed pretty good for a middle of the 20th Century jet. Coming as it did straight after the Lincoln/Washington era.

In your career you must have operated all the V-bombers* and every RAF variant of VC10, I guess, Art Field. That must be an unique accomplishment indeed!



*except the Vimy? :p