fireman sam...
 

Well it seems to me that we have another set of terrorises in our midst, only this time they are wearing firemans uniforms!! How can they say that 11%, which equates to £4300 over the next 2 years is an insult?? Being held to ransome by them is the insult.

Interesting to note that even at their current rate of pay it still exceeds the majority of the servide men and womens wages who are going to cover for them. Maybe we should all strike, and forget that we knew what we were getting into when we joined, and take a leaf out of the firefighters book and hold the country to randsome!

£30,000 a year for a four day week, you are having a laugh! If there are members of the public who die during these strikes the blood will be on the hands of the fire fighters and not the service personnel who are yet again being taken away from their families!!

We all work in the public sector and feel the stress from time to time but I joined to be a part of somthing not for purley monitary gains, take a leaf out of the Glasgow underground and sack the lot of them!!

Agree whole heartedly.
One ITN report doing the rounds today focused on one firefighter who was striking because on his current wage he "Can't afford to buy his own home, so he and his wife are in welfare housing"

And?!!!!!!:rolleyes:

But short of being a window cleaner, or working in a mine or a quarry, or ....

it's quite dangerous.

And with only 40 people in the queue for every job, it's not like they couldn't be replaced.

And of course a fireman's worth more than a teacher.....

11% well aint that a kick in the teeth, in the commercial world we get paycuts.

Good luck to anyone on Fresco, it's a shame that you can't play with the lovely safer red engines that have been bought by the local tax payer.

I'm on Op Fresco, and I'm sorry guys I disagree with you all. Having learnt what the fire brigade do,see, and have to put up with day in day out all for £21k a year, I think they really do deserve £30k.
I've heard the ''they don't work every day'' and the ''they spend most of their time sitting around playing cards/snooker etc", but the reality of it is that most of them have secondary jobs to supplement their income, and yes they might spend a lot of time waiting around, but the fact is they're waiting around knowing that at any moment they could be putting their lives at risk, or having to deal with the horrific sights of RTAs etc.
I wonder how we would feel if the powers that be decided to pay us flying pay only when we flew because the rest of the time we're sitting on the ground in the tea bar telling war stories.

Go on then Dicky. Surprise me. What do they 'put up with' for 21K a year?

1. They have time for a second job and invariably use that time to earn more money. Many who earn equal or less don't have the opportunity for a second job.

2. It's well established that actually the job's not that dangerous. OK, more dangerous than sitting on a supermarket checkout but at last count I believe it sits at number 23 in the list of dangerous occupations according to official figures.

3. Horrific sights like RTA's are part of the job. As Jackonicko points out there are folks lining up to do this job knowing the sights they will see. These same sights are seen by ambulance workers (on less money), policemen (on a tad more but no chance of asecond income), and doctors (Full consultant NHS pay 63K).

4. Let's pick up on the relative intrinsic 'value' of a firefighter. My perception is that an ambulance worker probably undergoes a similar amount of training and subsequent stress as a firefighter but is on less money. I certainly perceive a policeman's lot to be considerably more onerous and difficult on a daily basis and probably more often more dangerous. On a different level if an NHS consultant earns between 53K and 63K per year (there are opportunities to top this up with private practice but this is not generally the gold mine you might imagine e.g. a senior consultant anaesthetist can earn about an extra 20K - but this requires far more hours a week than a fireman is putting in, and that probably includes his second job). It takes that consultant approximately 15 to 20 years (thats right) to get to the top of his profession and all the way he has to work like **** to get there and has real life saving decisions to make on a daily basis with everyone looking to him for the ultimate decision each and every time. So you reckon a couple of firemen on 30K are worth a consultant on 60K?

Let's face it, it's a basic job worth a standard wage. They should take the 11% and shut up.

Sorry, but £21k is not a bad wage by any means. Maybe not the best wage, but were talking about a starting salary here.

As for it being dangerous…. Er, sorry… you signed up for it Mr fireman…. Oh but sir, I didn’t know I’d have to go inside the building…. I don’t think so!!

The firemen should be happy with 11%. And get on with what they do best. I’ve just been told I’m on standby tomorrow and Thursday… I don’t mind that. I’m happy to help. However if I end up at an RTA with someone trapped in a burning car and no fireman to help, (god forbid I hope this doesn’t happen), I’ll never forgive them.

Cheers

Grob Driver

millitants....surely not
 

Well that will be that then.....the strikes are on. It comes as no surprise really when you consider the media coverage over the last 48 hrs or so, but I do find Gilchrists spoutings difficult to swallow.

To stand on the steps, avoid questions from the journalists about the Iraq situation and how this might affect and indeed endager us all was squirm provoking. 4% is an insult, infact it's dirisory, he said....nonsense! I wonder if closer to the truth was the fact that this is their last opportunity to strike before they would require a new ballot?? Or am I just being suspicious?

4% followed by another 7% next year....yes please!! Then to be subjected to local fiirefighters telling us people are going to die because the Armed Forces can't cope, and how that's down to the government is disgusting!

You've been offered double inflation, get back to work and do the job you joined up to do and indeed agreed to!!!

God bless all over the next few days out on the Green Goddess Crews.

What a pity no-one's got the guts to let the Fresco chaps go across the picket lines and use the superior, modern kit.

But perhaps forces discipline, morale, creative thinking and leadership, combined with modern equipment would provide too good a service, and raise uncomfortable questions....?

"But perhaps forces discipline, morale, creative thinking and leadership, combined with modern equipment would provide too good a service, and raise uncomfortable questions....?"

You said it. I have zero sympathy for these lefty unionists after their continuous criticism of the contingency services. Implying they're a bumbling Dad's Army of thick squaddies using tired old museum pieces to fumble they're way through any emergency is insulting in the extreme. Maybe when we all head for sunnier, sandier climes, a few firemen can come along. Then we'll take the **** when they put an S10 on upside down.

Like you say Jacko, maybe the idea of relatively untrained new-comers doing just as good a job with less equipment AND FOR LESS MONEY in most cases, is just a bit too bitter to swallow.:mad:

CBW,

Some very valid points there,especially concerning the other emergency services, however these guys work 12 hour shifts 4days/nights on followed by 3 off. That's a 48 hour week(granted they might not be fighting fires all that time and indeed may be sleeping. Perhaps we should only be paid when we are at work,awake, SAR crews take note, and not paid 24/7). They then go and work in another job on their days off...do you work in Sainsbury's on a Sat/Sun?
Some of the risks they face on a daily basis:
1. Burns(obvious I know!!)
2. Explosions(personal experience on that one....Yesterday!!!!)
3. Chemicals and other noxious substances(Journalists etc! Sorry Jacko!).
4. Derelict buildings falling down on them, falling through them, and do you realise that the drug users who occupy these buildings, tape upturned needles to the bannisters so that they spike the Police when they search the place, they also spike the firefighters who are searching for these 'druggies' through thick smoke in Breathing apparatus with restricted views!
5. Blood contamination(Doctors,nurses and police as well)
6.Smoke inhilation(so much more deadly than any fire itself).
These are but a few of the many dangers these guys face saving our necks every day. From your wording I take it you feel pretty strongly about it...fair enough....but if you think its a quote: "Basic job worth a standard wage" you are either very mistaken or downright bloody arrogant.

Grob, 21k is what a fully qualified firefigher earns 4 years after graduating firethingy school. You say you hope that you aren't involved in an RTA with no firemen about.....it's amazing what we take for granted isn't it.
Don't get me wrong chaps I realise everybody would like much more pay and that's not going to happen, but these guys are really undervalued by the public(until they need them) and are definately underpaid.

I believe their major gripe is the fact that the local authorities want to use these fireman for related duties during the 3 days they currently have off. For this they would get an extra 3-5k a year. Unfortunately a lot off guys who work secondary jobs on their days off earn considerably more than that and are understandably quite annoyed.
Please feel free to berate me.... I don't care I'm off to Fort William in my little green goddess for a couple of days, so won't be here to read it.
Dicky

All fair points but I still can't justify the 40% - 31K pay claim to my SAC who has just been deployed on FRESCO and gets paid 11.5K!

CV:mad:

(Where's the spoolchocker?)

Dicky the Pig… Enjoy Scotland! I don’t see why they have to work part time on a Saturday to subsidise their £21K… I bet you don’t see Chinese Vic’s SCA working Saturdays subsidising his £11.5K…..

As for the dangers they face in their day-to-day jobs. Err, yes, and what’s your point? We all face dangers every day some of which are a lot greater than those facing firemen. Flying 100’ through a valley looks pretty dodgy to me… Just take a look at some of the photographs posted on this forum. Just think about the dangers that everyone faces on an active airfield. Sorry Mr Firemen, but it’s not all bad.

As for me attending an RTA without assistance…. I don’t take the firemen for granted… You are certainly missing my point. I’m saying that they do a good job, but are already paid a respectable wage… Ok, give them a pay rise,…. But 40%…. That’s just taking the p**s!!

Jackonicko. The reason that on one can use the fire services equipment is because they’ve put a clause in their ‘strike agreement thing’ (defiantly NOT a technical term there!) saying that any equipment used by outside personnel at the time of the strike will be taken off their inventory and never used again by the fire service. Not sure if they would really do that, but that’s what they are saying so, in the mean time, we’re stuck with what we’ve got…. 5 green goddesses for the whole of Lincolnshire! It sucks! I really think that they should be ashamed of themselves.

Good luck chaps and chapesses.

Grob Driver

Dicky, four points:

1. I believe it's not actually four shifts (48 hours) on 3 days off but in fact four shifts on 4 days off, somewhat tilting the balance of the hours worked argument.

2. If you work on the basis that the Forces personnel are paid 24/7 then the hourly rate for the majority is below the national minimum standard. Herein falls apart the argument about only being paid when at work.

3. I don't feel particularly strongly about it. I think I feel about as strongly about it as the majority of the population. Sure, go ahead and give the fire fighters a pay rise, but their demands are frankly out of all proportion to their day to day input as compared with other public service workers and therefore simply alienate much of the support they would otherwise garner.

4. The reason so many are eligible to apply for the job, and so many can do it and the pay is therefore not fantastic is because IT IS A BASIC JOB in that does not require a particularly strong set of relatively uncommon talents to learn and apply the skills required. That's not arrogance on my part its just an obvious point in evidence.

Wishing you well with your Fresco duties.

Fireman Sam
 

Great stuff this, soldiers replacing firemen, OK so when Iraq blows up, keep the squaddies on the Fire line and put the Firemen in the Firing Line on Squaddies pay! They will then know which side their bread is buttered. What we pensioners need is a 40% hike in our 'wages' to bring us in line with the destitute..........

I've the utmost admiration for all you non-volunteers out there on Op Fresco - and absolutely none for those volunteers holding us all to ransom over an outrageous (verging on greed) 40% pay increase. Ask any paramedic (they are reluctantly accepting 4%) his/her opinion over shift content, relative dangers, activity at RTAs, etc -- and I suspect your average fireman would have a sheepish reaction to the comparison. Were the ambulance service (who, shamedly, are not classed as an emergency service by HMG) to go on strike we would be hard pressed to provide similar cover to that of Op Fresco. The firemen can walk off the job in the knowledge that the Armed Forces will cover their arse: not so for the paramedics - a telling point.

Good luck to those on the Greens!!

Dicky, can I suggest you try putting your point forward to the LAC/SAC fftrs who are all deployed on FRESCO as I write. Poorly paid, similar risks (OK not nearly as often), living in cells (Colchester) and being backfilled at their parent units!

Oh, and these lads will probably go OOA with the rest of us over the next year.

Well whatever.....good luck to all involved now it's game time. Stay safe.

"Wicked people are always surprised to find ability in those that are good." - Marquis De Vauvenargues

Whilst I can appreciate spineless Bliar's reluctance to use the county fire fighting eqpt as opposed to the GG (just wouldn't do to cross a picket line would it?) but I do wonder why we are still paying good council tax to keep these plonkers on the picket line in a nice well lit, warm environment - no doubt they take turns on the picket line and then use the station facilities to eat, drink, sleep etc. - Shouldn't we lock the stations, turn out the lights and hire security to keep these nobbers on the pavement all night?

PS - I couldn't help wondering how many 'Firefighters' are prepared to let their children burn to death for the cause?

Rant Over.:mad:

I feel totally embarrassed in the fact that these red engines are 'isolated' in their stations whilst police are having to escort antiquated equipment at a snails pace through the Cities, Towns and Villages of this country. Why the hell do we have to use something that is 50 years of age when we scrap the ones that are up to the job say 10-15 years ago. What happened to the maximum 6 pickets per line-another cave in!

Rumour control says
 

That the F.B.U. have said in their strike conditions that if the Military break the picket line to use a fire engine the F.B.U. members will refuse to touch it ever again!

Nice one lads, good to see your priorities are in the right place!

Petrol driven vehicles are not allowed into some major chemical plants!

I suspect that if you gave the military the proper kit they might just do too good a job for the F.B.U.'s liking!

How did the union ever let it get this bad! On their website they state that the F.B.U. "has as its ultimate
aim the bringing about of the Socialist system of society" well how about less worrying about systems of govt. and more worrying about your members interests.

If you hadn't been so wed to your Battle honour/pay formula for the last 20+ years then maybe you wouldn't be in this hole!

You want professional pay for a professional service how about getting a professional union!

P.S. good luck to everyone on Fresco you can only do you best!

Interesting - if true, Becksian logic (that's logic fuelled by a bottle of Becks for those unaware of this important element of philosophical reasoning) suggests:

1. FBU members won't touch fire engine again
2. UK left with large numbers of nice, shiny red fire engines packed full of up-to-date equipment...
3. Therefore, new owners required: MoD, anyone, replacing the Green Goddesses?? Be a shame to let them go to waste. After all, we, the taxpayers, have paid for them.
4. Fire fighters discover that a) chaps and chapesses on FRESCO do as good as or better job. Embarrassed return to work the only credible option.
5. No fire engines any more.
6. Local authorities have to buy new ones.
7. 'Sorry, Mr Gilchrist - we have to buy new fire engines, so we can't afford any pay increase at all for your members. Of course, you can insist on the pay increase, but without any fire engines, you can't work, so we'll have to sack all your members...'

I don't think that the FBU have thought this one through: don't use the fire engines, the government has the right to point out that as taxpayers property, they'll have them all, thank you. No fire engine, Sam, no job. New fire engine needed? No money to pay you with. Your choice...

Well hurrah with big brass knobs on.
Needless to say first GG hit the streets minutes after 18:00 hrs, appearing on ITN within half an hour.
Must admit it was reassuring and, call me sad, a bit moving to see it lumber off in to the night to raptuous applause and rousing cheers from on-lookers. Later tonight I was in town and one went past (off call) and the place ground to a halt as everyone, even those in cars and pubs, came on to the street to cheer the crew home.
The Blitz spirit is clearly alive and well.
Keep up the good work boys 'n' girls. You are clearly appreciated.
:)

Just a thought.
The striking firefighters on the picket lines are obviously not on
duty. Shouldn't they be wearing their own clothing instead of the
nice warm firefighters clothing supplied by us hard working taxpayers?
I also hope I don't start seeing families complaining that they won't have enough money in the run up to the festive season.
Easy solution, get back to work!!!!

All the best to the GG crews from one who did it in 1977.

For those on Op Fresco, civvy firefighters are starting to post tips & advice on ARSSE (Pongo's PPrune thingy) Some seriously good advice.
link:
http://www.arsse.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb1...num=1037199348

Thanks and Good Luck to all involved, stay safe.

The firefighters should be offered a one-off, inflation-busting £5k pay rise in exchange for a permanent no-strike contract and an agreement to modernise their working practices.

If they don't agree, all firefighters involved in the strike should be sacked (a la Reagan and the US air traffic controllers). The fire service should then be turned into a part of the armed forces. If they want to re-apply for their jobs, the firefighters will have to join HM's finest. In the interim, the fire service will be a detachment for the armed forces and the Country will just have to get used to a reduced level of fire and rescue service.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copied from another post

Well Done to all those on Fresco.

Why shouldn't our guys cross the picket line and use superior equipment, it may save more lives and make the going easier. Our guys do not belong to a union so sod the picket lines, why should we recognise them.

The "poor" firemen only earning 21K for a four day week, I bet a lot of the military wouldn't mind that if they could go home every night without the threat of being sent away at short notice.

Did anyone see the "poor" fireman on GMTV this morning? He was interviewed in his luxury kitchen complete with island hob etc. How can he afford that on only 21K. Because he's got another job to fill the rest of his normal working week. He was being interviewed because his son who is in the army was manning a green goddess. Talk about putting the lives of your own family at risk.

I went past a fire station earlier and a sign said honk if you support us, I slowed down and shouted that they should get back to work and stop whinging.

I have just heard that part of the trigger of the dispute is that the fire service want to restructure the shift system which will prevent most firefighters from holding down a second job and therefore threaten thier extra salary.

Public support is waining, befare the strike 65% supported it but by this morning it was down to 42%.

Go on boys get the red fire engines, it was always the dream of young lads to drive a fire engine, now's you chance.

Best of luck, don't take too many other chances.

How nice to have a common enemy for once, insted of ascot v's kipper fleet, aircrew v's groundcrew etc. The FBU seem as popular as the "Judean Poular Front". I think we should reward them for their efforts to unify our community!

I am amazed at how quiet the other Public Servants have been. We have already talked about how the covering servicemen are getting less money, in many cases, than the workers they are covering. We have also mentioned ambulance workers.

Nurses undergo a minimum of 3 years of demanding training . I know; I did it! The pay was so crap I joined the RAF and trained as a pilot, served 19 years, and am now a civil pilot, earning approximately 4 times what the average nurse does. I had to study just as hard to get my nursing qualifications as I did to get my wings, and I had to put up with a lot more ****....literally.

These nurses get just as much abuse as the police (try A & E in a City on a Friday night), are often qualified in very specialised areas (Coronary and Intensive care for example), and the average nurse still gets paid about two thirds of a firemans wage. Not only that, but they DO have the right to strike, but the main nursing union, the Royal College of Nursing, will NOT do it, BECAUSE IT WILL RISK THE LIVES OF THE PATIENTS.

It would be interesting to see, if the nurses did choose to strike, how well the services would be able to fill in covering a shift in Theatre, Intensive Care, or Coronary Care, never mind routine post operative care of a spleenectomy. I suspect it would take more than a week of training strapped to a fire hose.

Consider this:

What is the probability of these items coming together:

a. A UK based fireworks factory catching fire (consider all the UK's HSE, fire protection, explosive storage and other rules and regulations presumably being applied).

b. Within hours (minutes?) of the first Firefighters strike for 25 yrs.

c. Within a few yards of a (striking) Fire Station.

d. That JUST HAPPENS to have a TV crew there to film the whole thing.

just a thought....................I'll join the Cynical Queue over there shall I?:rolleyes:

Good luck Lads and Lasses..... You won't need it though, 'cos you are The Business.

Fireman Sam
 

Grob driver,

You have got the right idea mate. No one forced them into joining the fire service did they?
The thing is, this is just what happened the last time we had a labour government in power. You watch, the dustmen will be next, followed by the postal workers, followed by the rest of the left wing, labour-loving commie bastards!
Just to add another note on the firemen, my mate is a fireman, and he tells me that the number of perks they get is unbelievable!!
He gets discount at virtually every store in his town, no matter what kind of shop it is, DIY, Bookshop, Decorators etc blah
Anyway, I hate to say it, but it WILL cost some poor sod his,her, their lives, and then the FBU will have it on their concious for ever.
To all GG crews - well done boys & girls, don't worry about the things that go wrong, the public love you all, and thats what matters - keep smiling!

Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Keep Swinging Boy!"

Can vouch for the above!!

Went out in a Northern town last week and at the nightclub door we asked if Fireman got in for free... "yes" Said the asian doorman...on production of a fireman ID card.

We showed our Mod 90 and were refused entry.... We said that we were the stand in Fireman for the area whilst the real ones were on strike.

We were disgusted... evey one paints the fireman as a hero, and after completing two shifts I now know that he is an Idle cardplaying TV and DVD watching comfort scoffing layabout who very Occasionally has to go and put a fire out. All this rubbish about risking life and limb is a benign argument if you ask me.

Its time for the macho image to be played down. The Army/RAF/RN risk their lives more in terms of danger and job hazards every day, much more so than the Firemen.

Paramedics get a derisory wage compared to the Fireman and they actually SAVE thousands of lives a day. If anyone were worth a payrise it would be them.

Andy Gilcrist or whatever he calls himself is a Militant left wing un-educated tosser who is well out of his depth. Has anyone checked if he has links to Al-Q?? Great new terrorist tactic to bring the country to its knees by means of a strike...

This is not the Mod view just mine and a few other servants who wish that the Fireman would take a reality check and bog off. £21k a year is not bad at all when you consider they only work half the year!!!! These idiots need to go to some poverty stricken country such as Afghanistan just to see how lucky they really are. It makes me sick. Bring back Maggie, she'd never had stood for any of it. Sack 'em all and bring in new recruits who want to do the job......


Rant over...

Fireman Sam
 

Grimweasel,

You are so right my dear chap.
As a former 'dope on a rope' I risked my neck far more often and for a bloody sight less money than the firemen get, I can tell you.
All this moaning and whinging about pay - blah, utter crap
As I said before, they knew what they were signing up for didn't they? And as for your comments about free entry into pubs/clubs etc. yep, its all true.
Maybe its time to stop swinging 365 days a year and maybe join the fire brigade! let me see now, £21k+ for 180 days a year work, hum, most of my mates are spending more than that out out the uk, watching sod all in Afghanistan every day!
Yeh, lets all quit the mob and join up for the fire brigade, sounds a pretty cushy number to me.
Keep up the good work all you GG crews:)
You have the total support of the British public, unlike those left wing commie firemen, who are rapidly losing the support of the nation.
Keep smiling:p
The swinging monkey
'let more line out Johnny!':eek:

I’m not going to say anything this time… The swinging monkey & Grimweasel have summed it up perfectly.

Grimweasel, I’m just getting an application form now…. Do you want me to get one for you!?

Oh, any one know of the likelihood of this next strike going ahead?... Need to know if that’s my weekend ******ed up!

Just a quick message for Dicky the Pig. As you have some sympathy for the fire fighters cause I thought you may be interested in how the FBU came to their justification for a 40% rise.

Whilst sat in a JOCC on Op Fresco last week I had an interesting conversation with the Senior Fire Officer present. The report that the FBU are using as their basis for a rise has been seen by minimal members. The 40% they insist they are worth was agreed apon over pint at a pub lunch. Without quoting the individuals concerned it went along the lines of, "So what about £25,000 then?" "Why not make it a nice round figure, 40% takes us to £30,000." "40% it is then."

So those hard working dedicated firemen who are spouting off on the news about how much they are worth might like to provide the fuel for all this hot air they are spouting.

And if you really believe a job with a 48 hour week, the ability to run a second job(declared to the inland revenue of course!), is worth a 40% rise then could you tell me where I get a flight to your world.....

Red Sky at night, Goddess is on duty......:mad:

Nice one Grim W + Swinging M

I was reading a local wrag whilst on a night shift the other day somewhere in deepest Wales and a very interesting topic caught my eye.

They covered the top 50 most hazardour/dangerous jobs in Britain. I am sure you will not be surprised to here that our military colleagues fell in at numero uno.

The firemen only managed a mere no. 28 which was well after doctors, nurses and paramedics.

But just to rubbish these lefty bas----s they actual came after rufuge collectors who put their lives on the line every time they pick up a rubbish back which could contain users needles.

So i propose we pay people not bey what they think they do but exactly how hazardous their post actual is. ummmmmmmm
i work out that the firmen are over paid by 40 %

Target Seen

And you beleived it? I see you're from Oxford....obviously not at the university then.
These guys aren't just a group of drunken louts in the pub, they're professional people with what they consider to be serious greviances, just because you don't agree with them doesn't make you right and them wrong.
As regards the "job with a 48 hour week and the ability to run a second job" drivel you spout, how often do you work 48 hours a week and then go and do a second job. I'm yet to see any aircrew up here at Ice Station Kilo do it.......maybe I should go to work more often to see it.
Oh and by the way..... timetable to my planet is in the post to you old boy!:p

Dicky the Pig

Obviously those northern extremes of Ice Station Kilo have made you forget that there is an Air Force out there where the aircrew work for a living - 7 months in a tent in the extreme climates of this world gives me some authority to comment on this matter - And before you ask about the remaining 5, they were just as busy all week and weekends and equating to far more than 48 hours. And don't consider that a whinge - just doing my job.

I was not suggesting that I was right and the fireman are wrong - merely echoing Grim W, Swinging M and Paradoor - they are paid well for a short week, the job is not that dangerous(comparatively I grant you, but ask a certain ex-fireman, now Crewman who had to increase his life insurance considerably on change of trade) and who do you think is going to end up paying for such a large pay rise which will end up being for all public sector workers??? - We are - the tax payer.

All public sector workers do a valuable job and should receive a wage to reflect such. I think fireman should look at the skill level and pay of their peers, and then ask themselves if they are really worth 40% more - in my opinion, not.

Oh, and thanks for getting personal - helps no end to back your argument!!! What will it be - standard banter response next???

Tried to get tickets for a flight to your world...didn't have any in my class...:rolleyes:

Politicians lead from the front, award themselves a HUGE rise without any justification, everyone else wants a piece of the cake, too many Midland Bankers at the top, what we want is all firemen seconded to the armed forces on Squaddie Rates of pay that way when the balloon goes up 'orf to Iraq wiv em' and let the Squaddies have the REAL Fire Engines to fight fire. No one deserves a 40% rise, not politicians, firemen and certainly not NANCY BOY FOOTBALLERS!

Fireman sam
 

John, Gary, Mr Cooper,

Love it!!
couldn't have put it better myself. Still, it looks like the commies may get 16% after seeing the news this morning - bas***ds:mad:
Interesting to see CDS on TV last night making Geoff Hoon like like a third rate numpty eh? At last, someone at the top has put his cards on the table and let the country know that we cannot cope. Good man.
Just a bloody shame it was a Fish-head, and not a flyer.
Don't put away those GGs just yet boys, you may just be needed one more time, but it looks like the baddies won again.
Regards to all GG crews, hope your all back home soon.
The Swinging Monkey

More slack Jeeves!