fireman sam...
 

Well it seems to me that we have another set of terrorises in our midst, only this time they are wearing firemans uniforms!! How can they say that 11%, which equates to £4300 over the next 2 years is an insult?? Being held to ransome by them is the insult.

Interesting to note that even at their current rate of pay it still exceeds the majority of the servide men and womens wages who are going to cover for them. Maybe we should all strike, and forget that we knew what we were getting into when we joined, and take a leaf out of the firefighters book and hold the country to randsome!

£30,000 a year for a four day week, you are having a laugh! If there are members of the public who die during these strikes the blood will be on the hands of the fire fighters and not the service personnel who are yet again being taken away from their families!!

We all work in the public sector and feel the stress from time to time but I joined to be a part of somthing not for purley monitary gains, take a leaf out of the Glasgow underground and sack the lot of them!!

Agree whole heartedly.
One ITN report doing the rounds today focused on one firefighter who was striking because on his current wage he "Can't afford to buy his own home, so he and his wife are in welfare housing"

And?!!!!!!:rolleyes:

But short of being a window cleaner, or working in a mine or a quarry, or ....

it's quite dangerous.

And with only 40 people in the queue for every job, it's not like they couldn't be replaced.

And of course a fireman's worth more than a teacher.....

11% well aint that a kick in the teeth, in the commercial world we get paycuts.

Good luck to anyone on Fresco, it's a shame that you can't play with the lovely safer red engines that have been bought by the local tax payer.

I'm on Op Fresco, and I'm sorry guys I disagree with you all. Having learnt what the fire brigade do,see, and have to put up with day in day out all for £21k a year, I think they really do deserve £30k.
I've heard the ''they don't work every day'' and the ''they spend most of their time sitting around playing cards/snooker etc", but the reality of it is that most of them have secondary jobs to supplement their income, and yes they might spend a lot of time waiting around, but the fact is they're waiting around knowing that at any moment they could be putting their lives at risk, or having to deal with the horrific sights of RTAs etc.
I wonder how we would feel if the powers that be decided to pay us flying pay only when we flew because the rest of the time we're sitting on the ground in the tea bar telling war stories.

Go on then Dicky. Surprise me. What do they 'put up with' for 21K a year?

1. They have time for a second job and invariably use that time to earn more money. Many who earn equal or less don't have the opportunity for a second job.

2. It's well established that actually the job's not that dangerous. OK, more dangerous than sitting on a supermarket checkout but at last count I believe it sits at number 23 in the list of dangerous occupations according to official figures.

3. Horrific sights like RTA's are part of the job. As Jackonicko points out there are folks lining up to do this job knowing the sights they will see. These same sights are seen by ambulance workers (on less money), policemen (on a tad more but no chance of asecond income), and doctors (Full consultant NHS pay 63K).

4. Let's pick up on the relative intrinsic 'value' of a firefighter. My perception is that an ambulance worker probably undergoes a similar amount of training and subsequent stress as a firefighter but is on less money. I certainly perceive a policeman's lot to be considerably more onerous and difficult on a daily basis and probably more often more dangerous. On a different level if an NHS consultant earns between 53K and 63K per year (there are opportunities to top this up with private practice but this is not generally the gold mine you might imagine e.g. a senior consultant anaesthetist can earn about an extra 20K - but this requires far more hours a week than a fireman is putting in, and that probably includes his second job). It takes that consultant approximately 15 to 20 years (thats right) to get to the top of his profession and all the way he has to work like **** to get there and has real life saving decisions to make on a daily basis with everyone looking to him for the ultimate decision each and every time. So you reckon a couple of firemen on 30K are worth a consultant on 60K?

Let's face it, it's a basic job worth a standard wage. They should take the 11% and shut up.

Sorry, but £21k is not a bad wage by any means. Maybe not the best wage, but were talking about a starting salary here.

As for it being dangerous…. Er, sorry… you signed up for it Mr fireman…. Oh but sir, I didn’t know I’d have to go inside the building…. I don’t think so!!

The firemen should be happy with 11%. And get on with what they do best. I’ve just been told I’m on standby tomorrow and Thursday… I don’t mind that. I’m happy to help. However if I end up at an RTA with someone trapped in a burning car and no fireman to help, (god forbid I hope this doesn’t happen), I’ll never forgive them.

Cheers

Grob Driver

millitants....surely not
 

Well that will be that then.....the strikes are on. It comes as no surprise really when you consider the media coverage over the last 48 hrs or so, but I do find Gilchrists spoutings difficult to swallow.

To stand on the steps, avoid questions from the journalists about the Iraq situation and how this might affect and indeed endager us all was squirm provoking. 4% is an insult, infact it's dirisory, he said....nonsense! I wonder if closer to the truth was the fact that this is their last opportunity to strike before they would require a new ballot?? Or am I just being suspicious?

4% followed by another 7% next year....yes please!! Then to be subjected to local fiirefighters telling us people are going to die because the Armed Forces can't cope, and how that's down to the government is disgusting!

You've been offered double inflation, get back to work and do the job you joined up to do and indeed agreed to!!!

God bless all over the next few days out on the Green Goddess Crews.

What a pity no-one's got the guts to let the Fresco chaps go across the picket lines and use the superior, modern kit.

But perhaps forces discipline, morale, creative thinking and leadership, combined with modern equipment would provide too good a service, and raise uncomfortable questions....?

"But perhaps forces discipline, morale, creative thinking and leadership, combined with modern equipment would provide too good a service, and raise uncomfortable questions....?"

You said it. I have zero sympathy for these lefty unionists after their continuous criticism of the contingency services. Implying they're a bumbling Dad's Army of thick squaddies using tired old museum pieces to fumble they're way through any emergency is insulting in the extreme. Maybe when we all head for sunnier, sandier climes, a few firemen can come along. Then we'll take the **** when they put an S10 on upside down.

Like you say Jacko, maybe the idea of relatively untrained new-comers doing just as good a job with less equipment AND FOR LESS MONEY in most cases, is just a bit too bitter to swallow.:mad:

CBW,

Some very valid points there,especially concerning the other emergency services, however these guys work 12 hour shifts 4days/nights on followed by 3 off. That's a 48 hour week(granted they might not be fighting fires all that time and indeed may be sleeping. Perhaps we should only be paid when we are at work,awake, SAR crews take note, and not paid 24/7). They then go and work in another job on their days off...do you work in Sainsbury's on a Sat/Sun?
Some of the risks they face on a daily basis:
1. Burns(obvious I know!!)
2. Explosions(personal experience on that one....Yesterday!!!!)
3. Chemicals and other noxious substances(Journalists etc! Sorry Jacko!).
4. Derelict buildings falling down on them, falling through them, and do you realise that the drug users who occupy these buildings, tape upturned needles to the bannisters so that they spike the Police when they search the place, they also spike the firefighters who are searching for these 'druggies' through thick smoke in Breathing apparatus with restricted views!
5. Blood contamination(Doctors,nurses and police as well)
6.Smoke inhilation(so much more deadly than any fire itself).
These are but a few of the many dangers these guys face saving our necks every day. From your wording I take it you feel pretty strongly about it...fair enough....but if you think its a quote: "Basic job worth a standard wage" you are either very mistaken or downright bloody arrogant.

Grob, 21k is what a fully qualified firefigher earns 4 years after graduating firethingy school. You say you hope that you aren't involved in an RTA with no firemen about.....it's amazing what we take for granted isn't it.
Don't get me wrong chaps I realise everybody would like much more pay and that's not going to happen, but these guys are really undervalued by the public(until they need them) and are definately underpaid.

I believe their major gripe is the fact that the local authorities want to use these fireman for related duties during the 3 days they currently have off. For this they would get an extra 3-5k a year. Unfortunately a lot off guys who work secondary jobs on their days off earn considerably more than that and are understandably quite annoyed.
Please feel free to berate me.... I don't care I'm off to Fort William in my little green goddess for a couple of days, so won't be here to read it.
Dicky

All fair points but I still can't justify the 40% - 31K pay claim to my SAC who has just been deployed on FRESCO and gets paid 11.5K!

CV:mad:

(Where's the spoolchocker?)

Dicky the Pig… Enjoy Scotland! I don’t see why they have to work part time on a Saturday to subsidise their £21K… I bet you don’t see Chinese Vic’s SCA working Saturdays subsidising his £11.5K…..

As for the dangers they face in their day-to-day jobs. Err, yes, and what’s your point? We all face dangers every day some of which are a lot greater than those facing firemen. Flying 100’ through a valley looks pretty dodgy to me… Just take a look at some of the photographs posted on this forum. Just think about the dangers that everyone faces on an active airfield. Sorry Mr Firemen, but it’s not all bad.

As for me attending an RTA without assistance…. I don’t take the firemen for granted… You are certainly missing my point. I’m saying that they do a good job, but are already paid a respectable wage… Ok, give them a pay rise,…. But 40%…. That’s just taking the p**s!!

Jackonicko. The reason that on one can use the fire services equipment is because they’ve put a clause in their ‘strike agreement thing’ (defiantly NOT a technical term there!) saying that any equipment used by outside personnel at the time of the strike will be taken off their inventory and never used again by the fire service. Not sure if they would really do that, but that’s what they are saying so, in the mean time, we’re stuck with what we’ve got…. 5 green goddesses for the whole of Lincolnshire! It sucks! I really think that they should be ashamed of themselves.

Good luck chaps and chapesses.

Grob Driver

Dicky, four points:

1. I believe it's not actually four shifts (48 hours) on 3 days off but in fact four shifts on 4 days off, somewhat tilting the balance of the hours worked argument.

2. If you work on the basis that the Forces personnel are paid 24/7 then the hourly rate for the majority is below the national minimum standard. Herein falls apart the argument about only being paid when at work.

3. I don't feel particularly strongly about it. I think I feel about as strongly about it as the majority of the population. Sure, go ahead and give the fire fighters a pay rise, but their demands are frankly out of all proportion to their day to day input as compared with other public service workers and therefore simply alienate much of the support they would otherwise garner.

4. The reason so many are eligible to apply for the job, and so many can do it and the pay is therefore not fantastic is because IT IS A BASIC JOB in that does not require a particularly strong set of relatively uncommon talents to learn and apply the skills required. That's not arrogance on my part its just an obvious point in evidence.

Wishing you well with your Fresco duties.

Fireman Sam
 

Great stuff this, soldiers replacing firemen, OK so when Iraq blows up, keep the squaddies on the Fire line and put the Firemen in the Firing Line on Squaddies pay! They will then know which side their bread is buttered. What we pensioners need is a 40% hike in our 'wages' to bring us in line with the destitute..........

I've the utmost admiration for all you non-volunteers out there on Op Fresco - and absolutely none for those volunteers holding us all to ransom over an outrageous (verging on greed) 40% pay increase. Ask any paramedic (they are reluctantly accepting 4%) his/her opinion over shift content, relative dangers, activity at RTAs, etc -- and I suspect your average fireman would have a sheepish reaction to the comparison. Were the ambulance service (who, shamedly, are not classed as an emergency service by HMG) to go on strike we would be hard pressed to provide similar cover to that of Op Fresco. The firemen can walk off the job in the knowledge that the Armed Forces will cover their arse: not so for the paramedics - a telling point.

Good luck to those on the Greens!!

Dicky, can I suggest you try putting your point forward to the LAC/SAC fftrs who are all deployed on FRESCO as I write. Poorly paid, similar risks (OK not nearly as often), living in cells (Colchester) and being backfilled at their parent units!

Oh, and these lads will probably go OOA with the rest of us over the next year.

Well whatever.....good luck to all involved now it's game time. Stay safe.

"Wicked people are always surprised to find ability in those that are good." - Marquis De Vauvenargues

Whilst I can appreciate spineless Bliar's reluctance to use the county fire fighting eqpt as opposed to the GG (just wouldn't do to cross a picket line would it?) but I do wonder why we are still paying good council tax to keep these plonkers on the picket line in a nice well lit, warm environment - no doubt they take turns on the picket line and then use the station facilities to eat, drink, sleep etc. - Shouldn't we lock the stations, turn out the lights and hire security to keep these nobbers on the pavement all night?

PS - I couldn't help wondering how many 'Firefighters' are prepared to let their children burn to death for the cause?

Rant Over.:mad:

I feel totally embarrassed in the fact that these red engines are 'isolated' in their stations whilst police are having to escort antiquated equipment at a snails pace through the Cities, Towns and Villages of this country. Why the hell do we have to use something that is 50 years of age when we scrap the ones that are up to the job say 10-15 years ago. What happened to the maximum 6 pickets per line-another cave in!