PPRuNe Forums - USMC CH-53E Missing

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- - USMC CH-53E Missing - 6 Feb 24 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/657452-usmc-ch-53e-missing-6-feb-24-a.html)

I think this covers it with out me saying anything:

Quote:

Statement from 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing Commanding General
The 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing continues to prioritize the recovery of our fallen warriors and focus on supporting the families of Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361 in the wake of this tragic mishap. As you are aware, the five Marines aboard the CH-53E were confirmed deceased at the crash site. Casualty Assistance Calls Officers notified each Marine's next-of-kin the evening of February 7th and morning of February 8th in person.
Our fallen warriors' fellow Marines have remained by their side - as Marines do - taking shifts throughout the night at the mishap site, keeping watch over them, despite the hazardous weather conditions. Our fallen Marines were - and continue to be - guarded by their brothers and sisters.
Since the early hours of February 7th, numerous Marine Corps, federal, state, and local agencies have been involved in locating the crash site and the recovery of our Marines. Despite the challenging weather conditions, both ground and air options were pursued, to include San Diego County Sheriff's aircraft, Marine Corps fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft, U.S. Border Patrol unmanned aircraft, Civil Air Patrol equipment and personnel, and Marine Corps ground units specially trained in aircraft mishap recovery operations. Today, we shifted our focus to the professional recovery of the remains of our fallen.
This entire effort is possible through the tremendous assistance of numerous agencies including the San Diego County Sheriff's Department, the Civil Air Patrol, the U.S. Border Patrol, the U.S. Forest Service, the State of California Department of Forest and Fire Protection, the California Highway Patrol, the United States Coast Guard, and many others. The 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing is incredibly grateful to all the men and women who have supported our efforts to this point. We are in awe of your sacrifice, teamwork, and genuine sympathy and empathy.
We look forward to continuing to work with many of these agencies as we bring our Marines home and then turn our attention to the investigative process. This tragic mishap will be thoroughly investigated to identify the causes, learn from them, and take action to reduce future mishaps.
We remain Semper Fidelis - Always Faithful - to our Marines and their families. The Marine Corps will continue to honor the memory of our fallen warriors and ensure our #1 focus is on supporting their families through the difficult days ahead
-Maj. Gen. Michael J. Borgschulte Commanding General, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego89 (Post 11592989)

It may be worth noting that at the time of last contact, around 1130pm Tuesday night the area was being hit by a "river storm" bringing heavy wind, rain and snow at higher elevations, up to 8 inches of driving snow around the incident site near Pine Valley. Night in heavy snow, wind, terrain and likely on goggles. Can't imagine Miramar crews getting much snow flying experience.

Bless the families.

The term the weather geeks use is "Atmospheric River" - a somewhat new term, I'm more used to them calling them "Pineapple Express" (so named because the weather systems generally form in the tropic latitudes near Hawaii). They usually hit the coast further north in the Oregon/Washington/British Columbia region so were rather used to them around here - for some reason there have been a series of them hitting further south in California the last month (good news - if any - is that they need the rain).
Given this system was bad enough that the Weather Service had advised people to 'stay home - essential travel only', I'm a bit surprised the military was flying in those conditions (especially if, as previously posted, the helo lacked anti-icing capabilities). I know they need to be able to function/fight in all weather conditions, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
RIP to those lost.

Weather that night

I am a retired fixed wing ATP and live in San Diego County, not far from the crash site. The weather that night was not good, low clouds, mountain obscuration with snow and sleet. There were also several heavy cells embedded along with scattered TS. San Diego earlier in the day had a tornado warning, which is almost unheard of here. The nearest weather reporting station is Mount Laguna approx 5 miles north east of the crash site at 5,500ft. The report that evening around the time of the accident was:-
Feb 6, 10:52 pm Temp 30F Dew Point 30F Humidity 100 Wind Chill 23F SW @ 7 G18

I am going to ask that dreaded question....."Why?".

Why was that crew flying in that weather?

Why could that flight not wait for better weather?

Why did the Operations Officer sign off on the Flight Clearance?

Why was the flight done at night?

Why in peace time would one conduct flight operations at night over that kind of terrain in that kind of weather?

Five Good Men gone....why?

The flight originated from Creech AFB, NV - which is a UAV control facility / support base and diversion airfield for Nellis Test & Training Range. There is no accommodation there.

We may find it was a classic case of "press-on-itis" rather than stay overnight at Nellis AFB just 47 miles away by road.

Ever hear of a small town called Las Vegas (aka Lost Wages), Nevada?

Quote:

The flight originated from Creech AFB, NV - which is a UAV control facility / support base and diversion airfield for Nellis Test & Training Range. There is no accommodation there.

No accommodation? Surely Marine warfighters could 'improvise, adapt and overcome' such a minor inconvenience?

RIP the fallen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEagle (Post 11594460)

No accommodation? Surely Marine warfighters could 'improvise, adapt and overcome' such a minor inconvenience?

Although we still don't know if it was really weather- driven accident (chances are probably high though) this may still be a case of can-do-itis (expert crew in a massive ship) on top of press-on-itis. Sadly way easier to fall into this trap than we as human are ready to admit to ourselves. That's where (Senior) Leadership would have to come into the equation.

On another note: Am I assuming right that the CH-53E doesn't have a weather radar or a radar that can easily be used and is being trained as such?

Henra, the production machines did not.

I was driving down US 95 on Friday and three other CH-53s were still sitting on the ramp at Creech. I wonder why only one was flying home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malabo (Post 11593377)

Civilian here, some questions on why it took a while to find.
...
Flown IFR lots in winter, icing is pretty rare - tips run warm, and usually you climb out of rain, through a sleet layer into snow. Nothing sticking to the blades.
...

I find this statement incredulous.

30+ years in H-60 with blade deice and anti-icing equipment. Flew SPIFR EMS in the US Pacific NW. I recall a particular IFR flight out of Phoenix on a January day when we accumulated ice so quickly on climb out that we couldn´t maintain straight and level flight. And that was with blade deice on and working.