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Big Pistons Forever 17th Jan 2024 17:50

Fun with Students
 
Further to my did in the Supply thread, my summer at the Navy’s Navigation school included teaching an advanced navigation course. I had 4 students and they were all excellent, but definitely not riven with self doubt. They started getting a bit stroppy so I decided it was time to take them down a notch or two.

We had weekly 25 question progress test which were multiple choice with a bubble test sheet. They could then be easily marked with a master cover sheet with holes that lined up with the correct bubbles.

I rewrote the next weeks test so that “B” was the correct answer for every question. It was very entertaining watching the students start to doubt themselves as the number of B’s started to accumulate.

After that the students were a touch more respectful towards their instructor.

langleybaston 17th Jan 2024 20:13

RAF Finningley Nav. School c. 1974, mid morning coffee break, where students and instructors mingled.
One instructor, a 'determined-to-remain just a Flying Officer', was heard to remark that the RAF was accepting outed homosexuals and had decided they would all best be in one unit.

"Where would that be?" asked an innocent.
"Here darling/ ducky/ dear, right here at Finningley" and stroked the stude's upper thigh.
Small hole in ceiling as stude disappeared upwards.
Sorry if I have told it before, and before, and before.

Wensleydale 17th Jan 2024 20:39


Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever (Post 11578067)
Further to my did in the Supply thread, my summer at the Navy’s Navigation school included teaching an advanced navigation course. I had 4 students and they were all excellent, but definitely not riven with self doubt. They started getting a bit stroppy so I decided it was time to take them down a notch or two.

We had weekly 25 question progress test which were multiple choice with a bubble test sheet. They could then be easily marked with a master cover sheet with holes that lined up with the correct bubbles.

I rewrote the next weeks test so that “B” was the correct answer for every question. It was very entertaining watching the students start to doubt themselves as the number of B’s started to accumulate.

After that the students were a touch more respectful towards their instructor.

I never used multiple guess question papers when instructing. If a problem occurred in the air then the solution never appeared as an option - the student had to know it outright. (It didn't help teaching classified subjects either...the paper would be classified). I once docked a student one mark for just using his nickname at the top of the paper...he only got 99% and whinged for the next few days.


langleybaston 17th Jan 2024 21:23


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11578162)
I never used multiple guess question papers when instructing. If a problem occurred in the air then the solution never appeared as an option - the student had to know it outright. (It didn't help teaching classified subjects either...the paper would be classified). I once docked a student one mark for just using his nickname at the top of the paper...he only got 99% and whinged for the next few days.

Nobody but nobody was ever up for 100% when I taught/ lectured/ harangued/ bored. Thus deducting one percent would lead to 98%. Nobody ever got that, either.

ShyTorque 17th Jan 2024 22:10

At the Puma sim we convinced one group of RAF students that due to notification of a nasty ear infection going around, not only did the communal headsets have to be sanitised before and after use (true), but hotel shower caps had to be worn as well. Later copied at the Chinook sim, too.

Difficult to keep a straight face when you see two heads with elasticated plastic bags bobbing about under their headsets whilst they were trying to deal with a serious emergency. :E

reynoldsno1 18th Jan 2024 00:24

I taught at the aviation college of a mid-West US university in the late 90's. It became obvious that many students were cribbing during multiple-choice tests.. The next time I produced 3 sets of identical questions, but they were in a different order on each set, the set being discretely marked in one corner. Of course, many of the students failed miserably and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. I just shrugged and said that was the way they came out of the computer - which was entirely true. No-one had noticed the discrete set annotation.

Krystal n chips 18th Jan 2024 08:40


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 11578174)
Nobody but nobody was ever up for 100% when I taught/ lectured/ harangued/ bored. Thus deducting one percent would lead to 98%. Nobody ever got that, either.

Well that says a lot about you really.

You will be shocked and appalled to learn contemporary training techniques negate some dinosaur doing their best to sap students morale and place the emphasis firmly on the instructor to facilitate student development and learning. The RAF actually ran an excellent Facilitators course, which was oversubscribed with applicants....which may give you a further clue.

Works remarkably well in fact and certainly when involving EBT / VLE techniques.

On the other hand, possibly your social diary possibly had plenty of empty dates given invites to end of course parties must have been rare.

To save you getting too apoplectic, I used to have similar, but "more direct and open " shall we say, "discussions " with former "colleagues ", not that they were, who were quite happy to churn out "Death by Powerpoint " as it saved them any involvement with something known as.....progress.

Cornish Jack 18th Jan 2024 09:23

When I was 'let loose' teaching Tristar tech at Cranebank, I was rostered for a monthly tech refresher session. Nominated pilots turned up and sat at 'wired up' desks which had 'responder buttone to react to multi choice questions. Session started and one late arrival rushed in and took a seat. On the instructor's desk there were rows of lights indicating the selections made by the 'victims'. As we progressed, one such was slow to react and frequently wrong. Eventually I had to stop and ask if this chap was feeling OK. The problem was quickly sorted - he was a 747 student and in the wrong room !

Jhieminga 18th Jan 2024 09:40

A teacher I know once created a test that started with a bold line at the top stating 'Read the entire test before starting on any of the exercises'. The last line on the paper stated 'Once you have read this, you have completed the test, no need to do any of the exercises'. It kept the class busy for most of the morning...

wiggy 18th Jan 2024 10:18


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11578419)
When I was 'let loose' teaching Tristar tech at Cranebank, I was rostered for a monthly tech refresher session. Nominated pilots turned up and sat at 'wired up' desks which had 'responder buttone to react to multi choice questions. Session started and one late arrival rushed in and took a seat. On the instructor's desk there were rows of lights indicating the selections made by the 'victims'. As we progressed, one such was slow to react and frequently wrong. Eventually I had to stop and ask if this chap was feeling OK. The problem was quickly sorted - he was a 747 student and in the wrong room !

Ah yes, mention of those "wired up" desks brings back memories...most especially the antics of some of the more helpful invigilators during some of the quizzes for some of the non- mandatory, non-regulatory stuff that the head shed deemed had to be done to bulk out the SEP day......


Ninthace 18th Jan 2024 10:47

Teaching basic electrics to the young ladies and gents of the RAF, we come to Lenz's Law. There was always one student a bit asleep and bored, but the lesson was followed by a demonstration involving a 1 volt power supply and a nice big copper coil with an iron core fashioned into a horse shoe electromagnet with an iron keeper. When the power was applied, it took quit a bit of force to get the keeper off the magnet. While the students were demonstrating their strength, I would take the previously bored one to one side and suggest it would be a jolly jape for them to remove the crocodile clips from the supply while their mate was pulling on the magnet. If the asked about a shock, I would point out it was only a 1 volt supply, theatrically lick two fingers and put them across the terminals. Matey, being thus assured would wait for my signal and then pull off the clips. Tthis produced a rapidly collapsing field and a decent back emf. The resultant belt would give me a chance to reinforce the learning of Lenz's Law and also drive home the point that apparently innocent things can still bite.

Then one day, out of curiosity, I scoped the back emf, and decided not to do it any more.

NutLoose 18th Jan 2024 11:11

Halton, Omani student arrive to learn to be engineers, prior to this they had a year or so in the USA learning English mainly from a techniclal point of view, so few were very good at conversing in the language.
During one of the first classes as the instructor was talking one of the Omani's was chatting at the back of the class, it turned out he was the one with half decent English and was having to translate for the rest of the course. This continued like this until the exams.
Exam day and papers were passed around, the Omani translates the question and then simultaneously they all tick a box... this continued until the exam was finished and was scored, everyone one of them had the same answers... I do not know what they did after that.
I know they were looking to send one home until it was found his family (poor) would be in disgrace and would have to pay back all of the USA / UK course costs entailed, so he scraped through.

Ninthace 18th Jan 2024 11:42

Teaching a class of students from Zimbabwe, I ask a question and get a rambling reply in fractured English. Eventually, I give up and interrupt, telling him I do not understand his answer, "That's OK sir" he smiled, "I did not understand the question either!" Lovely guys, great fun to teach.

langleybaston 18th Jan 2024 14:05


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11578398)
Well that says a lot about you really.

You will be shocked and appalled to learn contemporary training techniques negate some dinosaur doing their best to sap students morale and place the emphasis firmly on the instructor to facilitate student development and learning. The RAF actually ran an excellent Facilitators course, which was oversubscribed with applicants....which may give you a further clue.

Works remarkably well in fact and certainly when involving EBT / VLE techniques.

On the other hand, possibly your social diary possibly had plenty of empty dates given invites to end of course parties must have been rare.

To save you getting too apoplectic, I used to have similar, but "more direct and open " shall we say, "discussions " with former "colleagues ", not that they were, who were quite happy to churn out "Death by Powerpoint " as it saved them any involvement with something known as.....progress.

A very long, splenetic, unfair and incorrect deduction from scant evidence.

NutLoose 18th Jan 2024 15:11

Play the topic not the person K and C.

OJ 72 18th Jan 2024 15:16

It's funny, but every time I see the title of this thread the song 'Don't Stand So Close To Me' by 'The Police' springs to mind!!! := :O

NutLoose 18th Jan 2024 15:31


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11578504)
Teaching a class of students form Zimbabwe, I ask a question and get a rambling reply in fractured English. Eventually, I give up and interrupt, telling him I do not understand his answer, "That's OK sir" he smiled, "I did not understand the question either!" Lovely guys, great fun to teach.


When I went through St Athan on my course, there was a course of African PTI's going through, nice bunch of guys but we did see the funny side when we came in one day and they were practising the Javelin, they were not very good at it. In fact they were positively dangerous, we were safer down range of them as they were flying everywhere.

Lomon 18th Jan 2024 15:50


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11578486)
I know they were looking to send one home until it was found his family (poor) would be in disgrace and would have to pay back all of the USA / UK course costs entailed, so he scraped through.

Sounds like an Omani ATC student, who managed to win the best student award, despite being able to barely speak English and regularly having an Airprox or two in the sim.

Ninthace 18th Jan 2024 16:00

In the days when Powerpoint was spelt OHP, I went to RAF Newton for one of the very early courses on computer based training. It was interesting. it might even have involved an early BBC computer, but at the end, the presenter noted I was not overly impressed. I explained there was only one power socket in the classroom I usually used at Halton, and someone had fitted the roller board over it, so I could not plug in an OHP. let alone a computer.

Big Pistons Forever 18th Jan 2024 16:38

I was once asked to help out for a few days at the Staff College war game simulator. My syndicate shows up on day one looking decidedly the worse for wear, so I asked what was up. It turned out the (late and unexpected) promotion of one of the students had just occurred. The class had “celebrated” at a local and notorious waterhole.

One remarked things were going fine “until the shooter girl showed up”

That became the go to excuse for the students for war game sim runs that didn’t go well. “So Sir, the battle was going really well….and then the shooter girl showed up! “

higthepig 18th Jan 2024 16:39


Originally Posted by Lomon (Post 11578632)
Sounds like an Omani ATC student, who managed to win the best student award, despite being able to barely speak English and regularly having an Airprox or two in the sim.

Sounds like a Malaysian student on my course, lovely guy, but a complete hazard to all in the Sims as he had magnetic aircraft and no English without 5 minutes thinking time. He passed with flying colours, which was obviously and absolutely nothing to with the sale of Hawks to the Malaysian Air Force at the time......

57mm 18th Jan 2024 16:56

Circuits at Linton were left hand, except for one day a week, during my JP course. The QFI gives me a simulated flameout close to the overhead; I whip straight into the pattern, rattling through through checks and radio calls, when I feel something being written on my kneepad. I glance across to read one word "Wednesday".......
.

Big Pistons Forever 18th Jan 2024 18:19


Originally Posted by higthepig (Post 11578677)
Sounds like a Malaysian student on my course, lovely guy, but a complete hazard to all in the Sims as he had magnetic aircraft and no English without 5 minutes thinking time. He passed with flying colours, which was obviously and absolutely nothing to with the sale of Hawks to the Malaysian Air Force at the time......

Reminds me of a story of a friend who was a training and check pilot for a regional airline flying Boeing 737's. As part of a government "help those poor people in Africa program" they contracted with the airline to provide a free 737 type rating to some pilots from am African country. He was told that they were fully trained and ready to do the type course. He gets them for the sim after a disastrous ground school in which it was made clear nobody could fail. First sim he decides to start out slow and set up the sim at altitude and in cruise and instructs the student to get comfortable flying straight and level before commencing maneuvering. The response from the student "which do you want first, sir"

Ascend Charlie 18th Jan 2024 20:51

A civil flying school was awarded a contract to train military students from a country that sounds like Saudi Arabia. They won the contract, based on a military-based curriculum and piles of manuals "borrowed" from the army aviation. Excellent standards were demonstrated, so I joined the staff. The first course of 6 went pretty well, motivated students and reasonably talented, but when the second course arrived (3 month overlap) it was apparent that the first course had been talking to the next course back home, pointing out that some exceptions were being made to the standards. Course 2 was much harder to teach, and when course 3 arrived, they couldn't give a rat's patootie about study or learning, and it was clear that 2 of them weren't even suitable to be on an airfield.

The head of school and I reached the decision to scrub these 2. Much wailing and threats of "My father is a General and you will be punished" and so on, but they were sent back home. The owner of the school then received a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars, the amount that had already been spent on these students, and apparently it was a small-print clause, in arabic, that said the money had to be repaid if the student didn't finish the course.

The owner was somewhat (!) annoyed, and from then on no student ever failed the course. The owner ensured that quizzes were dumbed down, standards were NOT to be enforced, and some really unsuitable people were awarded "wings" and sent back home to fame and glory. I tolerated the school for a few years but it irked me too much to see what was going on to let these rockapes through - they paid their money and got their wings. Luckily they never had a solo, and were always accompanied by an instructor, so the rest of aviation was not at risk.

ORAC 19th Jan 2024 05:36

IIRC there were three graduation grades for overseas students who were not allowed to fail,…

Successfully completed the course.
Completed the course.
Was present whilst the course took place.

Haraka 19th Jan 2024 07:41

Similar:
1.Passed The Course.
2.Attended The Course;
:)

longer ron 19th Jan 2024 08:28

When I was doing a PPL course at Scone in the early 70's there was a Maltese Air Trafficker who had to get a PPL to fully qualify as ATC.
He had been there quite a long time and still did not have that important PPL.
Anyway his instructors finally let him have a go at the qualifying X - Country on the same day as me - which in those days was up to Dyce (Aberrrdeen Scotland).
He followed me all the way up and I joined in turn into a very busy cct of very mixed traffic - but not this guy - he just went straight in and landed :)
Needless to say he wasn't allowed to do the return trip - we had to land and refuel (as briefed) but they had to send an instructor up to collect his wee Cessna :)

PlasticCabDriver 19th Jan 2024 08:42


Originally Posted by Wensleydale (Post 11578162)
I never used multiple guess question papers when instructing. If a problem occurred in the air then the solution never appeared as an option - the student had to know it outright. (It didn't help teaching classified subjects either...the paper would be classified). I once docked a student one mark for just using his nickname at the top of the paper...he only got 99% and whinged for the next few days.

But how would you ever achieve the ultimate “pick the least incorrect answer from the following 4 options” standard?

Back in the deep and distant past on the Chipmunk, there were a few tests in the ground school phase. They had been the same for years, the questions and answers were freely available. The staff knew this, we knew the staff knew this, they knew etc etc….. it suited everybody, but there was a game to play. Most of us used the answers to help in the swotting, knew which answer was correct, but perhaps just as importantly why. Come the debrief to the first, which we have of course all passed remarkably well, let’s go through the paper, question 1, “Dave you got this right, the answer was a, 12v, can you tell us why?”, “because…{correct answer}”. Question 2, “Mike, you got this right, the answer was c, 10 gallons, can you tell us how you got that answer?”, “errrrrrrrrr…..”. Question 3, someone else gets it right. Question 4, “Mike?” “ errrrrrr”. **** had just learned ABADCBA etc and and had no idea.

Next exam, new papers. Cheers Mikey.

Shackman 19th Jan 2024 08:53

Like ninthace above, I had to attend an early computer course at RAF Newton, as I had been given the job of 'computer manager' on the Sqn at Aldergrove. However, this was run by the RAF Police, and was on 'computer security'. However, it was all based on the BBC Computer (remember those?) and early Commodore machines - and even better the lectures (!) were all done using OHPs, and mainly consisted of ensuring you switched them off at night and tied them to the desk or put them in a cupboard to prevent theft. When I asked about proper security measures - we were already using windows based desktops llinked to an internal network and under a constant threat from the various factions in NI - there was a very large silence from the WO lecturer, before he asked what a network was as he didn't understand the question. Even better he didn't know the threat as he had never been to NI, and as for passwords...........!
No one else from the Squadron attended again.

India Four Two 19th Jan 2024 09:41

Late 60s at Shawbury, back when the helicopters were still flying at Tern Hill, the based flying units were UBAS and 8 AEF flying Chipmunks, and Marshall's Vampires and Piston Provosts, which were used as training targets for the baby ATCOs, learning their trade at the Central Air Traffic Control School. Shawbury at that time was no longer a Master Diversion Airtield, so the only itinerant traffic consisted of occasional Gnats and Hunters from Valley, practicing PARs and diversions plus aircraft coming to 27 MU, mainly for scrapping.

One day I was flying a Chipmunk with an instructor to the west of Shawbury. Unless we were going to do instrument approaches, we always stayed on the Local (Tower) frequency. We heard a Hunter T8 from Valley on the frequency and it was obvious that the student had a poor command of English and was having trouble understanding the ATC instructions. My instructor, Brian N, was intrigued and when the Hunter went around and was passed back to Approach, he switched to Approach as well, without bothering to tell the Local controller. During the vectoring for the next approach, the controller starts giving headings to the Hunter, to steer around a target at "unknown altitude". The penny dropped and we looked up to see the Hunter several thousand feet higher, making a dog-leg around us!

A quick switch back to Local and we heard the controller calling us, complaining that he hadn't been able to reach us. We didn't confess!

sittingstress 19th Jan 2024 12:12


Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie (Post 11578800)
I tolerated the school for a few years but it irked me too much to see what was going on to let these rockapes through - they paid their money and got their wings.

Strangely enough that was not a course open to us mere Gunners! I expect you meant to use a different simian based epithet for the studes, such as chimps or gibbons :)

Per Ardua

B Fraser 19th Jan 2024 12:51


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 11578174)
Nobody but nobody was ever up for 100% when I taught/ lectured/ harangued/ bored. Thus deducting one percent would lead to 98%. Nobody ever got that, either.

You didn't lecture at Shinfield by any chance ? I was on a course where an exam question was to calculate the cloudbase. I took the dry bulb temp and dewpoint, multiplying the difference by 400. (The intent was to have the student do a long winded calculation using DALR yawn.......). I was deducted a mark on the grounds that while the method used was commonplace and perfectly ok, nobody likes a smartass.

langleybaston 19th Jan 2024 13:18


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11579222)
You didn't lecture at Shinfield by any chance ? I was on a course where an exam question was to calculate the cloudbase. I took the dry bulb temp and dewpoint, multiplying the difference by 400. (The intent was to have the student do a long winded calculation using DALR yawn.......). I was deducted a mark on the grounds that while the method used was commonplace and perfectly ok, nobody likes a smartass.

I taught at Shinfield, having had the benefit of the GIT course at ?Upwood? several years earlier [harangued by 'its not "lecturing, you are given two ears and one mouth, that is a hint!'] , and a lot of time at at the whiteboard and OHP at Leeming, Topcliffe, Church Fenton and Finningley.
I later did three years at Shinfield and accepted the posting on a promise of a full tour in RAFG. That was honoured.

One of my best memories was End of Course thrashes at the Merry Maidens .............. the waitresses were topless on certain evenings by arrangement. That would be c. 1975.

B Fraser 19th Jan 2024 13:38

Ahhhhhhhhhh.........."Thrupenny bit Thursdays"......... they got bottomless too but that would be 1983.

ECMWF was "early closing Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays". Happy days, no money but happy all the same. Our course speciality was indoor mountaineering where we would find ways of circumnavigating the bar without touching the floor.

Talking of overseas students, one chap from the large continent was tasked with using a computer. The lecturer.....sorry, instructor.... explained that it was just like a typewriter. "What's a typewriter ?" was the inevitable reply.

No doubt the cheque was cashed and he was sent home with top marks.

NutLoose 19th Jan 2024 14:29

RAF Halton plastic Jag that was not a Jag, but an engine ground running trainer that sported a simulated Adour mounted and a plastic Jaguar, but not a Jaguar fuselage, complete with a working Jaguar but not a Jaguar cockpit.

Engine run ongoing, student in cockpit going through the runs canopy shut, all of the studes on headsets where the engine noise and comms is being played and a display board off to one side is showing a simulation of what is happening engine wise... Quite impressive, the stude in the cockpit has a motor mounted under his seat to simulate the rumble and as it starts to fail the cockpit is slowly filling up with smoke, still determined the said stude is trying to waft it away to read the instruments... coughing heard and everyone looks at the smoke filled cockpit,

Exercise over and a dead not a Jag, but a Jag trainer. They kept drilling it into us all, even us ex Jaguar Engineers that this is NOT a Jaguar.

NutLoose 19th Jan 2024 14:33

One country that had the RAF teaching their engineers realised they were getting dumbed down engineers as the course was simplified for them, so insisted in intergrated classes with the RAF.

langleybaston 19th Jan 2024 15:13

Shinfield, Met Office College observers' and technicians' initial course, in the days of mercury column barometers. Practical session.

Muffled commotion at the back, followed by by "please, I have let all the little ball-bearings out of the barometer" or some such confession. Nasty stuff, every office had a yard of it on the wall until quality aneroids were issued.

Video Mixdown 19th Jan 2024 15:56

Then there were the ME students on a Helicopter Underwater Escape Training course who just sat in the submerged ‘helicopter’ waiting to be rescued by the safety divers. How did they expect to survive in an actual emergency? Inshallah.

Ascend Charlie 19th Jan 2024 21:24


Then there were the ME students on a Helicopter Underwater Escape Training course who just sat in the submerged ‘helicopter’ waiting to be rescued by the safety divers. How did they expect to survive in an actual emergency? Inshallah.
​​​​​​​Like our ME studes who climbed into the cockpit and then sat there, waiting for some expat to strap them in. It was a JetRanger, not a Martin-Baker Mk 10.

NutLoose 19th Jan 2024 21:34

There was a lad at Halton while I was there beat the monkey.

Apparently folk law stated that a trained monkey taught to tick random boxes could attain a mark of about 25% on a “vote for Joe” multi choice exam paper, so even if you just ticked random boxes you were guaranteed a 25% mark. He got 24% and never lived it down from everyone else.


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